Wow thnx for the input and sounds like I need to buy more Hydrotron lol oh btw for us northeasters I found a small Hydro shop that might be worth looking into. neHydro.com, Hydroponics and Gardening Supplies is the addy got a good deal on a constant PH/Temp/PPM meter from them for 149 and free shipping so I finally have a PH reader besides my fish tank test kit