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Thread: Proper usage of Advanced Nutrients with soil.

  1. #1
    SeaLevelGrower is offline Registered+
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    Proper usage of Advanced Nutrients with soil.

    Okay I am a bit confused and think I may have been using the wrong feeding schedule for Advanced Nutrients with my soil garden. I recently purchased the new pH perfect GROW/MICRO/BLOOM trio and have been following the schedule on the bottle.
    After a few plant problems I thought I would double check my nute usage so I googled "advanced nutrients soil feeding schedule" and found a feeding schedule that is much different than what I am using. For instance all three bottles recommend a set amount through all weeks of veg and flower (.54 fl oz/gal).

    The soil schedule I found recommends starting week 1 using .13 fl oz of GROW/MICRO and ramps up to .26 fl oz for week 8. BLOOM .02 for week 1 ramping up to .05 for week 8!

    Can anyone please share a basic schedule for me using Advanced Nutrients!? or help clarify my confusion?

    Thanks

    SLG

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  3. #2
    polishpollack's Avatar
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    Usually with ferts like this one, it's more nitrogen in veg and less in flower. Not sure why anyone would say use the same amount all the time as most manufactuerers say to vary the NPK ratio. Going with the second formula sounds better but I don't use that product so can't say for sure, but it seems right. All depends on what kind of problems you have had and will have in the future. Sometimes you just gotta experiement. I think ideally what a grower does is use a TDS meter, also called a PPM meter. Get ferts to about 1200 ppm with the high nitrogen version for veg, then switch when flowering to a high phosphorus version. I guess fert companies take it for granted everyone will have a meter and know how to use it.

  4. #3
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    The whole idea behind a 3 part system is flexibility.

    I'd use the online directions, as some manufacturers label the products as a stand-alone nutrient or additive. Which is strange, because AN is a known cannabis nutrient. They should know better.

    But it doesn't surprise me, coming from a company that sells a product for everything that ails you, and they also sell the products that fix the problems that arise from using the first product. Don't fall for their marketing and flashy labels. Most of the products they sell are unnecessary. Some are nothing more than a derivation of a synthetic or organic molasses.

  5. #4
    SeaLevelGrower is offline Registered+
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    Rusty, I agree with you on all of the un-neccesary products! I am simply using the GROW/MICRO/BLOOM trio and some Bud Candy for bloom. I emailed AN about the feeding schedule and they recommended using the "old" online feeding schedule. I guess i was confused in thinking I had purchased the pH perfect products, apparently they have not been released yet...however, every time I mix a batch of nutes, the pH is always at +/-6.5! Gonna start following the old schedule asap!

    Thanks!

    SLG

  6. #5
    Farmer Rich's Avatar
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    Hey SeaLevelGrower,

    I too use AN products.. and not all of them. First question for you, do you have a combo (ph/ec/ppm) meter? If you don't I recommend you try and pick one up.. I don't believe that pH perfect stuff for a minute.

    I tend to mix the AN products at 1/2 the recommended strength; so 2 ml per liter on base nutrients (I use 2 part) and 1 ml per liter on any additives you may use such as Bud Candy, Big Bud or Overdrive.. This normally works out to a ppm of about ~1100, and I deviate off of this dependent on which week, strain, etc.. The highest I ever take it is about 1300 ppm in week 5 of an 8 week cycle.

    Considering the menu of products available.. I use the following:

    Grow - Sensi A/B - maybe a little B-52 if I do something to stress them, like topping.

    Flower - Connoisseur, SensiZyme, Big Bud/Overdrive, Bud Candy.

    I grow in soilless mix (pro earth) and like the ph around 6.0.. As far as feeding cycle, from a weekly perspective, I feed M-F as needed, give them a straight water flush each weekend. On a 8 week cycle:
    Base/SensiZyme weeks 1-6, BB 2-4, OD 5-6, BC 1-6, start flushing with pH'd water in week 7 to finish.

    I'm sure there are many here to point out the evils of AN, but I'm getting great results.. so why fix something that isn't broke.. I can tell you my friend's results with other products pale in comparison..

    Peace, Farmer Rich
    Last edited by Farmer Rich; Nov-10-2010 at 14:51.

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    The only thing I personally have against the AN line, is the overhyping of the need for all those products. Were it as good a line as they say it is...then why all the different products to correct deficiencies and boost performance? Why were those components missing in their base products in the first place? Why not add them to the base, and adjust rates and ratios as needed, like most companies?

    I guess if you like playing with dilution rates, double-checking charts and mixing various products, (hopefully correctly and for the right remedy) and costing a fortune for this pleasure...I'd much rather keep it simple and cost-effective. Just my opinion though...I have neither heard nor said anything is wrong with their formula's, I just know a softer-easier (and cheaper) way.
    I have a solid 3-part nutrient system and molasses. (and phDown) The pint of molasses lasts 6 months, the quart bottles of nutrients last me a year, the phDown two years. All year for under $75.00, and am in no way shorting myself quality or yield. (barring unforseen incidents, accidents or emergencies)

  8. #7
    SeaLevelGrower is offline Registered+
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    @FarmerRich: I do have an Oakton pH meter, but it does not test ec/ppm. I always test pH before feeding and use a pH up/down to correct.

    @RustyTrichome: I am using the AN trio with Molasses as well...I am also using the BudCandy, but thats it!

    I have found the correct feed schedule and plan to follow it, starting out half strength! Thanks for everyones help!

    SLG

  9. #8
    Farmer Rich's Avatar
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    Rusty, I do like your numbers! $75 a year is quite a bit less than I've spent.. Also agree with you on the overhype! In fact Big Mike's brazen attitude flying his banner over Seattle hempfest ended up making his products unavailable for a time at many local hydro shops due to reported pressure from the feds. As far as dilutions and all, I can mix up a batch in my sleep for about any stage and can generally hit the desired ppm..

    SLG - you're probably doubling up on carbs using both Bud Candy and Molasses..

    Good growing all!

    Peace, Farmer Rich

  10. #9
    nuglover is offline Registered+
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farmer Rich View Post
    you're probably doubling up on carbs using both Bud Candy and Molasses..



    is that bad? im using gravaty and molasses is that doubling the carbs?

  11. #10
    killerm8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaLevelGrower View Post
    Okay I am a bit confused and think I may have been using the wrong feeding schedule for Advanced Nutrients with my soil garden. I recently purchased the new pH perfect GROW/MICRO/BLOOM trio and have been following the schedule on the bottle.
    After a few plant problems I thought I would double check my nute usage so I googled "advanced nutrients soil feeding schedule" and found a feeding schedule that is much different than what I am using. For instance all three bottles recommend a set amount through all weeks of veg and flower (.54 fl oz/gal).

    The soil schedule I found recommends starting week 1 using .13 fl oz of GROW/MICRO and ramps up to .26 fl oz for week 8. BLOOM .02 for week 1 ramping up to .05 for week 8!

    Can anyone please share a basic schedule for me using Advanced Nutrients!? or help clarify my confusion?

    Thanks

    SLG
    The closest I've been to growing in soil with AN is that when I drain my hydroponics rez I use the old solution to water my outdoor garden. Obviously this is a different situation than you're in. When I've had questions in the past I've called their tech support line, but I imagine the email is probably answered by the same people.

    Quote Originally Posted by SeaLevelGrower View Post
    I guess i was confused in thinking I had purchased the pH perfect products, apparently they have not been released yet...however, every time I mix a batch of nutes, the pH is always at +/-6.5! Gonna start following the old schedule asap!
    Easy way to tell the difference: The original formula has three different pictures of plants on the front and the new bottles have a gorilla on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Farmer Rich View Post
    First question for you, do you have a combo (ph/ec/ppm) meter? If you don't I recommend you try and pick one up.. I don't believe that pH perfect stuff for a minute.
    I just want to point out that the combo meters can be problematic. I prefer to use the Truncheon ec/ppm meter and a separate pH meter (my last one broke and I've been using the paper for awhile with no complaints). The Truncheons don't require any calibration, can be used to stir, are waterproof, and are generally rock solid dependable meters. Plus, if the pH meter breaks you've still got a perfectly good ec/ppm meter.

    Like those TV's that have a DVD player built right in. Great idea until the DVD player breaks. Now you have a perfectly good TV with a broken built-in DVD player.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome View Post
    The only thing I personally have against the AN line, is the overhyping of the need for all those products. Were it as good a line as they say it is...then why all the different products to correct deficiencies and boost performance? Why were those components missing in their base products in the first place? Why not add them to the base, and adjust rates and ratios as needed, like most companies?
    See, I actually like the way AN does their stuff. It's not that the stuff in their additives are missing from the base nutes, that's just stuff to add in on top of the base nutes if you want to.

    The way I see it, they give me the flexibility to only use the particular things I want. I don't have to use some grab-bag multi-tool thing when all I really want is a screwdriver.

    There's a limit to how many things you can cram into a given volume of water. If they were to add them to the base, as you suggest, things would start to fall out of solution and build up a layer of crud at the bottom of the bottle. They'd have to add more and more water to dilute it so it would stay dissolved and we'd be paying more and more for them to cover the cost of shipping the extra water.

  12. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by killerm8r View Post
    See, I actually like the way AN does their stuff. It's not that the stuff in their additives are missing from the base nutes, that's just stuff to add in on top of the base nutes if you want to.
    Soooo...it doesn't matter what the PLANT needs, it's the GARDENERS desire that they are quenching...? I'd much rather have something that works, rather than something someone told me works...Sell me something I need, not something I think I might need...

    Quote Originally Posted by killerm8r View Post
    The way I see it, they give me the flexibility to only use the particular things I want. I don't have to use some grab-bag multi-tool thing when all I really want is a screwdriver.
    Under this reasoning, you should have a bottle of nitrogen, a bottle of phosphorous, a potassium bottle, a micronutrient bottle, a heavy metals bottle...
    Most other nutrient companies offer, what the basic understanding is at the moment, what a plant needs. If your nutrients need ammendments just to properly function...something is wrong with the nutrients.
    To me it appears that AN would love to have us purchase all of their products, (because you "NEED" them) before discovering that other product lines already contain most of what your cannabis plants need. I chose to skip this step, and purchase the all-inclusive multi tool, rather than purchase the wrong screwdrivers for the wrong reasons.

    You seem rather level-headed, but most of those that use either the Lucas formula, or the AN product line, have an almost anal approach to their cannabis. Seems they forget about the keeping it simple rule, and no ammount of reasoning will skew them from their pre-ordained growphobia's which run on the misguided assumption that their techniques are the best and only solution.
    Are my techniques the best and only? IDK...but I do know that everyone can have great success in growing their meds without breaking into retirement funds to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by killerm8r View Post
    There's a limit to how many things you can cram into a given volume of water. If they were to add them to the base, as you suggest, things would start to fall out of solution and build up a layer of crud at the bottom of the bottle. They'd have to add more and more water to dilute it so it would stay dissolved and we'd be paying more and more for them to cover the cost of shipping the extra water.
    Weak response. Shake before use.
    Keep in mind, there are more folks all around the world that have great success using other nutrients without having to purchase every ammendment product known to man. How is it that these other nutrient companies don't need, nor do they offer, all these overpriced ammendments, but AN has a house full of 'em? Why are some of AN's ammendment products nothing more than diluted molasses or cane sugar extracts? Seems someone is taking advantage of the new gardeners confusion with pretty labels and a "we're too frigging cool, regardless that we are taking you to the bank" attitude, and I have a problem with that.

    What are you getting in return for you excess cost? More trichomes? More bulk? Better photosynthesis? More flavor? Better CBD:CBN ratios? This is what we all strive for, but AN isn't the only path to achieve this. Matter of fact, it's not, in my opinion, the best path.

    A common "trio" and a bottle of unsulfured molasses is all I use, as I've come across nothing better.

    Obviously, if you are using AN, and can afford it, and are having success...keep on keepin' on. But there is a softer, easier, cheaper way to the same result.
    Last edited by Rusty Trichome; Nov-17-2010 at 11:53.

  13. #12
    Cattsy is offline Registered+
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    I highly recomend anyone new to using Advanced Nutrients give them a call on their 1800# THey're SUPER helpful, will help you customize based on what you're seeing with your plants, how you're feeing, what you're growing in etc etc.

    My grandma spent a couple hours on the phone with them and they not only helped with some nute problems they were having but just some other general info too.

  14. #13
    killerm8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome View Post
    Soooo...it doesn't matter what the PLANT needs, it's the GARDENERS desire that they are quenching...? I'd much rather have something that works, rather than something someone told me works...Sell me something I need, not something I think I might need...
    That's not even remotely what I said. You've already made up your mind about what you want to hear so I won't bother you further on this point by trying to say something else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome View Post
    Under this reasoning, you should have a bottle of nitrogen, a bottle of phosphorous, a potassium bottle, a micronutrient bottle, a heavy metals bottle...
    Most other nutrient companies offer, what the basic understanding is at the moment, what a plant needs. If your nutrients need ammendments just to properly function...something is wrong with the nutrients.
    To me it appears that AN would love to have us purchase all of their products, (because you "NEED" them) before discovering that other product lines already contain most of what your cannabis plants need. I chose to skip this step, and purchase the all-inclusive multi tool, rather than purchase the wrong screwdrivers for the wrong reasons.
    You misunderstand and misaddress most of what I say. Additives exist for those who want to get more from their plants. I've grown plants using nothing but AN's base nutes and had no problems at all. I've grown plants with AN's base nutes and some additives and likewise had no problems at all. The difference is in the quality and quantity of the yield.

    There's nothing WRONG with a plant that doesn't yield enormous buds. But in every single instance where I've grown with varied levels of additives I've gotten better results with them than without.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome View Post
    You seem rather level-headed, but most of those that use either the Lucas formula, or the AN product line, have an almost anal approach to their cannabis. Seems they forget about the keeping it simple rule, and no ammount of reasoning will skew them from their pre-ordained growphobia's which run on the misguided assumption that their techniques are the best and only solution.
    I'm not the one attacking the way someone else grows. That'd be you, busily attacking all things Advanced Nutrients.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome View Post
    Weak response. Shake before use.
    There's a difference between soluble salts and insoluble salts. Without a chemistry background I wouldn't expect many people to understand this, but it is not remotely uncommon for the combination of soluble salts in fertilizers to include individual ions that together would be insoluble.

    Salt A and Salt B may individually be highly soluble, but in combination can form Salt C that is far less soluble.

    More importantly, Salt C may stay happily in solution until it reaches a certain concentration at which point it precipitates taking the concentration of ions in solution down much further than it would otherwise happily tolerate and be exceptionally resistant to dissolving back into solution.

    In short many salts, once precipitated, cannot be easily re-dissolved into solution.

    Consider calcium carbonate (hard water scale). What was once nicely dissolved in water precipitates out and will not go back into solution no matter how much you scrub it with clean, fresh water.


    This is why there's a limit to how concentrated a liquid fertilizer can be. Solid dry fertilizers are not simply dehydrated liquid ferts. They're grains of many different fertilizer salts in certain proportions. In solid form the components that could form insoluble solids are kept separate in different solid salts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome View Post
    Keep in mind, there are more folks all around the world that have great success using other nutrients without having to purchase every ammendment product known to man. How is it that these other nutrient companies don't need, nor do they offer, all these overpriced ammendments, but AN has a house full of 'em? Why are some of AN's ammendment products nothing more than diluted molasses or cane sugar extracts? Seems someone is taking advantage of the new gardeners confusion with pretty labels and a "we're too frigging cool, regardless that we are taking you to the bank" attitude, and I have a problem with that.

    What are you getting in return for you excess cost? More trichomes? More bulk? Better photosynthesis? More flavor? Better CBD:CBN ratios? This is what we all strive for, but AN isn't the only path to achieve this. Matter of fact, it's not, in my opinion, the best path.

    A common "trio" and a bottle of unsulfured molasses is all I use, as I've come across nothing better.

    Obviously, if you are using AN, and can afford it, and are having success...keep on keepin' on. But there is a softer, easier, cheaper way to the same result.
    You've made up your mind, that much is clear. You're not really asking questions, you're preaching from your soapbox.

    You ask "Why are some of AN's ammendment products nothing more than diluted molasses or cane sugar extracts?" without bothering to back that up by first proving it's true. And yes, I know exactly what you'll cite if I ask you for your source and those guys aren't even remotely impartial (and they don't actually prove it to be true, they simply say it is.)


    You talk a big talk about letting people do what works for them. You also walk a big walk about trying to tell everyone that uses AN they're "doing it wrong".

    Isn't it just possible that AN isn't the big boogy man you want it to be?

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