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Thread: I need insight with PH levels

  1. #1
    spunk is offline Registered
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    I need insight with PH levels

    So,I have been keeping a PH level of 6.7 and have had major problems.I took it down to 6.2 on PH level and little change. I'm in pro mix and I would just like to know what a solid PH level is for soil AND pro mix along with your reason.

    I think I'm over looking things and need to find a PH I can work with and put a end to this madness.

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  3. #2
    CanGroIt's Avatar
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    6.3-6.8 is said to be ideal for soil, any and every soil. My soil however regulates itself to 7.5 and my plants don't seem to mind, happy frog. I'm always using ph down with each water and or feed, 15ml per gal. Sounds nuts I know but it's been working for me so far. At this point, I'm only checking soil ph, I don't even check water (kinda afraid to). I just drop 13-15ml of ph down per gal and that's my sweet spot. This is just what works for me and I don't recommend it but if I didn't try different ph levels, I wouldn't have found where my plants do best. Funny thing is that even with that much ph down, the soil only fluctuates down 1.0. 12 hours after watering, the ph is back up to 7.5 and will stay there until the next watering, trips me out.....but works for me....

    I'd say don't sweat the ph thing too much. Try different levels and find what they respond to....

    How do you check your ph? What is your ingoing water ph, soil ph and runoff ph?

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    Last edited by CanGroIt; Jun-06-2011 at 22:47.
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  4. #3
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    water ph I us ph up and bring to 6.7 for feed and water. The soil meter never goes over 7 nor under 6. My ph run off is only a few points low. I'm going crazy,I keep walking in to N problems or nice CAL/MAG problems. I go a herm because of stress and I just can't seem to find this " sweet spot".

  5. #4
    319
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    I believe Cangroit has it right. I use to grow with synthetics and I would keep things at 7.


    -319

  6. #5
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    Hey there - where do you get your water? If you're using regular tap-water then your problem may be a high ppm level in your water. My tap-water ppm is around 350 and is pretty much unusable. The pH is 7.5 but is easy enough to lower with pH-down. If I were you, i'd buy some RO water in the store and pH-down that to about 6.0 and see if your plants like it...if so, you may have a ppm issue, not a pH issue - and that would tell you that your water source is the problem.

    Hope that helps! That was what happened to me...

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    Ok...so what's the ppm of your runoff, Dayzt1...?

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    1400's ppm on week 10. My water is distiled and from the store. I add cal/mag before anything in my water untill my ppm hits around 150.

    This was a first grow and what a cluster *%#@! I don't recall one week in flower without having problems. When I'm in veg, Everything seem easy breezy but come flower I'm watching them die it seems.

    If I read Ed's books, His study says ph aroumd 5.8-6.2 BUT when I read Jorge's book, His study say's ph around 6.0-7.0 more talk on 6.5-6.7.

    The more I read,The more things seems to not work out. I talk to people,Alot of people tell me to lower my ph to 5.8 when in pro mix but have no reason as to why...

    I know every plant is different but not a 5-8 point difference. I need someone to break down a good ph for soil and why is works well for the plants in that range.

    Thanks for the help so far
    Last edited by spunk; Jun-07-2011 at 08:45.

  9. #8
    Purple Daddy is offline Registered+
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    Try not to read too much, I've read Ed's book a dozen times but it takes real world experience with these things. I'm kicking myself for not using more sphagnum moss in my soil because it's good for balancing our your PH and keeping nutrients from locking up.

  10. #9
    CanGroIt's Avatar
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    1400ppm at week 10 is not bad at all.... It might not be a ph issue. Your water source has been ruled out. And you say veg is no prob....how often do you flush? How often do you feed? And how often do they get plain water, no nutes?

    To get the best responses, I think you may want to fill out the troubleshooting form so we can see your way and let you know where you are going wrong....

    I think it would benefit you more if you were to search "ph nutrient chart". You will find many sites, some charts and they all have the same basic concept, your ph needs to be in a certain range for proper nutrient intake......

    Troubleshooting form is in the plant problems section, in case you didn't know....

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    Last edited by CanGroIt; Jun-07-2011 at 09:16.
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  11. #10
    spunk is offline Registered
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    I flushes 3 times in one month because I was having so many problems. I normaly flush every 4 weeks. I feed them nutz,wait 2-3 days then just water waiting another 2-3 days and then nutz again. Said to say but no chart for this grow. I'm on my 10th week so I'm flushing. If I would have posted sooner in the grow,I would be glad to fill the chart out again.

    It just seems as soon as flower happends N hits and then cal/mag. I hit them good with a 6-0-0 and not much happends. I also give a double hit of cal/mag and still nothing changes. I hope to figure this out and find the "sweet spot" one of these days.

  12. #11
    CanGroIt's Avatar
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    spunk - too much to ask for a pic? Your watering/feeding schedule sounds about right.

    The sweet spot also has to do with your nute recipe, the overall nutrients that are going to be available for it's life cycle. If you give the right levels of N-P-K and micronutes at the right period of growth, your expectations will be met.... What is your nute recipe to get your 1400ppms for week 10???

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    Last edited by CanGroIt; Jun-07-2011 at 15:54.
    If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything......
    Their are those who Can and those who cannot, which are you....

    The Soil/Hydro Growers Troubleshooting Form....
    PPM's Made Easy to Understand....
    All Newbies Read This....

  13. #12
    319
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    I would like to know what nutrients your using? Organic or synthetic?

    Don't know if your using a drip system, why don't you use regular tap water w/nutes of course, for two weeks to see if that helps your plants recovery from calmag def.

    Also it takes about a week for you N def to show recovery, that's if they make a full recovery. maybe your flushing to often?

    trying to help
    -319

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanGroIt View Post
    ( Glad to see you back Rusty Trich )
    Never left. Just going with the flow now-a-days, but avoiding helping minors and cash croppers. (self imposed)

    There's a nutrient uptake chart floating around here somewhere. Shows the ph range(s) necessary for proper nutrient uptake. In a peat-based medium between a ph of between 6.3 and 6.8 ingoing is optimal.

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    polishpollack's Avatar
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    Yeah man, let them learn on their own.
    Spunk, pH ain't your problem. People need more details and hopefully photos in white light to help you out.
    Why use N 6-0-0? Are you sure calmag is necessary?

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    Quote Originally Posted by polishpollack View Post
    Yeah man, let them learn on their own.
    Spunk, pH ain't your problem. People need more details and hopefully photos in white light to help you out.
    Why use N 6-0-0? Are you sure calmag is necessary?
    OK, so here are a few pictures of my cal/mag and N problems. The northern lights g 13 has the N problem. The strawbery cough has the cal problem and the picture with general organics now also has a N problem in secong week of flower but the pic is when it was in veg to show I don't have problems untill flower.
    I need insight with PH levels-imag0114.jpgI need insight with PH levels-imag0115.jpgI need insight with PH levels-imag0128-1.jpgI need insight with PH levels-imag0112.jpgI need insight with PH levels-imag0113.jpg

  17. #16
    319
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    Well I did a little bit of reading for ya.

    It looks like GO is similar to Earth Juice where you shouldn't adjust the PH. There is a big discussion about it on the link below. Some users are saying use regular tap water with it (very similar to EJ).

    I figured you might have been using some sort of organic. Other then that I would call them and ask:

    If I should ph your water?
    If I should bubble your water?
    Should I use tap water?
    Just say your growing tomatoes and if they fail to answer any questions then I would drop them.

    Always Faithful
    -319

    General Organics Talk

  18. #17
    spunk is offline Registered
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    Quote Originally Posted by 319 View Post
    Well I did a little bit of reading for ya.

    It looks like GO is similar to Earth Juice where you shouldn't adjust the PH. There is a big discussion about it on the link below. Some users are saying use regular tap water with it (very similar to EJ).

    I figured you might have been using some sort of organic. Other then that I would call them and ask:

    If I should ph your water?
    If I should bubble your water?
    Should I use tap water?
    Just say your growing tomatoes and if they fail to answer any questions then I would drop them.

    Always Faithful
    -319

    General Organics Talk
    Thanks very much for the link! I still (imo) don't think it all has to do with GO of course, I do think the PH is a major factor. I had a post a few weeks back with these problems. I was useing Fox Farm and there bloom...well they made a bad batch claims the rep via phone. I asked how do I know if I have the bad batch when nothing has a number on in? After about an hour on the phone I said LOOK. You have a 100% money back on all Fox Farm stuff. I handed the phone to the hydro store owner and told them what was up. They talked and hung up. The owner called GO and said this person just got rolled by fox farm and is in the store every day it seems. I want you to comp him your full line of GO and he will go from there. GO said no problem and I got the GO line for free...Fox Farm called back and said bring your empty and full bottles/any thing Fox Farm and we will give you the money back. I went home and brought back all of it. It was over 100 dollars of stuff easy. Because the store owner was so nice and helping I decided to take store credit instead of the cash.

    Now with that said,I'm looking at two different nutz on the same plants. I have tryed two or three different ph levels and flushed three times more then a grow should. I think if I find a good PH and ride her out with GO I can not recover but finsh at the very least. The link was just like the Pro Mix talk I hear. People in pro Mixs tell me they run PH around 5.8-6.0 yet it's still considered soil and should be treated just like it. 5.8-6.0 is way to acidic in my mind. I did try 6.2 and I got lock up in less then a week. I flushed and went to 6.7 and the same thing. I flushed and went to 6.5 and here I am. I know I stressed the plants so much they just want to pack up and go I'm at a loss of words with less then 3 weeks to go. I'm pretty sure it's the nutz and PH but everyones guess is as good as mine.
    Last edited by spunk; Jun-08-2011 at 14:39.

  19. #18
    319
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    If I'm reading this right you were using Fox Farm then switched to GO? If that's right Fox Farm isn't 100% organic and GO is. This could be where your having a lot of your issues(PH). You probably have killed most of you soil microbes with FF. But this is just a guess.

    Anyway man, your plants don't look to bad. Up your N slightly being that your in flower. Add a little bit of lime to the plant that has the calmag issue.

    Honestly I know that PH has just about everything to do with lockouts and whatnot. But it seems that each plant is having there own issues. If things were across the board then I would say your dosing is off. I believe with the prior FF use then switching to organic you have disturbed the living conditions of your soil. This is my guess friend. I would A. Either plan how to use GO that fits you best for next grow or B. Switch to an easier nute regiment like Earth Juice!

    Honestly I had a lot of PH issues with the GH line, then I switched to the lucas method and things were a lot better. Then I just chose to find the easiest solution when dealing with PH. That's when I found out about EJ. But there are a few products out that don't need PH synthetic or organic.

    I hope things work out for you.
    -319

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    Quote Originally Posted by 319 View Post
    ... You probably have killed most of you soil microbes with FF. But this is just a guess.
    Since you're wrong, perhaps you shouldn't be guessing when someone else's meds are at stake. I've been sucessfully using Fox Farms for almost 10 years with no issues from it's proper use. The Fox Farms weekly feeding schedule is a great place to start when dosing the ladies. (it's on the Fox Farms website) Hard to screw it up if you use it as directed.

    Bad idea to switch nutrient manufacturers mid-stream. Redundancies between the two can cause lockout conditions. A low ph can look a bit like overwatering, but bouncing your ph back-n-forth is a great way to stress 'em too. Proper ph range in a peat-based medium is between 6.3 and 6.8. Quit trying to re-invent the wheel...and if you have any further issues copy-n-paste the troubleshooting form here, then fill it out as completely as possible. This dragged-out hit-n-miss "diagnosing" bullshit is likely to cost you your plants if it continues. Especially if the "diagnosis" is from someone with inaccurate info.

    Organics are only as good as their proper use. Same goes for non-organic nutrients. (regardless of the source...a chemical compound is a chemical compound.) Organics are truly over-rated and over-hyped.

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    That spotting you're seeing in magnesium deficiency, not calcium, if that's what you're thinking. Is the cal/mag dose kind of late in the game? If you've given some, do you see any improvement since you gave it? Shouldn't be more than a couple of days to see improvement.

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    If it was mag I don't think the spots would turn brown and kill off the leaves. This is going by charts and other posts,not my own thought. I have without a doubt hit them with cal/mag but nothing stops it from killing 50% of the leaves. I cut all bad leaves off,not the best idea but for reason to see if it would come back after major treatment and in 3-6 days I was looking at the same problem all over again. My soild reading is less then 7 yet higher then 6.3 and my run off is now 6.3 as to feeding with 6.5 ph. It is clear that stress,ph going up and down,lock outs,flushes ect had made them untreatable. I'm going to ride the nightmare of my first med grow out and hope for the best. If anything,I will have a nice seed pile to germ from without having to guess what they went though. I hope to germ one seed,clone and the keep going untill my likeing. This is getting way ahead of myself and my skills BUT it keeps me going.

    I thank everyone for the advice and I really mean that!

  23. #22
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    That spotting is mg def, worst I've seen. How are they looking these days?
    Trying to control a grow too much is where alot of people run into trouble.

  24. #23
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    Well rusty. he stated that he was using synthetic nutrients and switched to organics mid stride and if this was true then yes he did kill a lot of the microbes in the soil. Being that FF is not 100% organic, whatever that could mean.

    And I've never said anything about organics being superior to synthetics. I've never said FF is bad. I've even said before that I have used them and like them, see my log. I believe if you read what I have ever written about organics especially earth juice is that I like it because of 1. taste and 2. I don't have to PH it. This was way before PH perfect came out (see above).

    Why all the hate on this forum? I thought this were growers come together to figure things out? I mean man your not even following the thread you just come on jump down my throat. Then state to read the FF website, when the dude isn't even using FF anymore. For real homie?

    I will stand by what I say. If you use synthetic nutrients or semi synthetic nutrients i.e. Fox Farm and switch to an all organic nutrient (GO) you might run into some problems. Such as the OP is stating. No hard feelings Rusty.

    Be Easy
    -319

  25. #24
    bullyslayer is offline Registered+
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    what are you using to measure PH,drops , pen ,or probe ??have you calibrated lately ?
    why is everybody so damn nice around here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 319 View Post
    Well rusty. he stated that he was using synthetic nutrients and switched to organics mid stride and if this was true then yes he did kill a lot of the microbes in the soil. Being that FF is not 100% organic, whatever that could mean.
    I could care less what brand he's using, it's the "organic" vs. "non-organic" references I really have the problem with. Switches mid-stream should be avoided, but mainly because of redundancies and possible interactions when the two are combined in the soil, and the remote possibility that a build-up of salts or minerals might compound issues...A good flush remedies most of these concerns, but you'd better be familiar with the new nutrient package or you'll run into new problems via inexperience.

    Quote Originally Posted by 319 View Post
    And I've never said anything about organics being superior to synthetics. I've never said FF is bad. I've even said before that I have used them and like them, see my log. I believe if you read what I have ever written about organics especially earth juice is that I like it because of 1. taste and 2. I don't have to PH it. This was way before PH perfect came out (see above).
    Twas the tenor of your post, but my point was to get the OP to go find the schedule and compare it to what he was actually doing. One can learn bunches from previous mistakes.

    Quote Originally Posted by 319 View Post
    Why all the hate on this forum? I thought this were growers come together to figure things out? I mean man your not even following the thread you just come on jump down my throat. Then state to read the FF website, when the dude isn't even using FF anymore. For real homie?
    For starters, I'm not your fucking homie. Got it...? And actually, I've bitten my tongue on a few of your other posts, as you inaccuracies were'nt overly detrimental to the member you were "helping".

    I often give extra info to the casual reader, and sometimes the reference is a tangental or peripheral subject, but worth throwing-out there. Including the Fox Farms website, or any other manufacturers website where there is a weekly feeding schedule for their product. And HOLY CRAP, WOULD YOU LOOK AT THAT...there's also info about the OP's original ph question right there at the bottom of the Fox Farms Weekly Feeding Schedule. Imagine that...

    Quote Originally Posted by 319 View Post
    I will stand by what I say. If you use synthetic nutrients or semi synthetic nutrients i.e. Fox Farm and switch to an all organic nutrient (GO) you might run into some problems. Such as the OP is stating. No hard feelings Rusty.
    Since you are pretending knowledge with someone that actually has some, please tell me...exactly what problems are you refering to? I want to see specifics. I want to see you finish your thoughts, instead of throwing crazy statements out there with no explination., as this breeds mis-information and ignorance.

    I aslo stand by what I've said.

    No hard feelings, but I suggest you keep your insight to facts, not suppositions.
    Last edited by Rusty Trichome; Jun-13-2011 at 08:08.
    oldmac and GrowingInGeorgia like this.

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