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Thread: Eviction for smoking (outside off property)

  1. #1
    zeocolloid is offline Registered
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    Eviction for smoking (outside off property)

    I posted this here to avoid discussion of US laws.

    I live in Ontario and rent a basement apartment. I have recently been issued an N5 form to terminate my tenancy based on the premise that I am "substantially interfering with the reasonable enjoyment of the residence by another tenant"

    When I first moved in I smoked inside a couple times which was in violation of the lease (I stopped). From that point on I began smoking OUTSIDE OFF THE PROPERTY. This eviction is based on the fact that the other tenants can smell pot in a shared side entrance.

    Do they actually have the right to do this? What are my rights?

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  3. #2
    dataspecs is offline Registered
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    Lightbulb Province

    What province do you live in? I can give you a more better response. Edit: Ok you said Ontario. Missed that.

    The long and short of it is:

    a) how do they know it's marijuana you are smoking, have they smoked it before?
    b) are those noses trained to smell scents, and can accurately distinguish what you were smoking, even if have smoked it in the past?

    My point is, unless they are able to get a sample of your stash, they can't say it was marijuana.

    If you are on public property, on a public sidewalk and smoking, I do not believe they can say reasonably that you are doing something untowards to the other tenant. Go to the tribunal, for sure. Let me ask, what city you are in? I dont need that, but if you are in my city, Id actually show up.

    Anyways, let me know the province at least, so I can tell you what you are up against.
    Last edited by dataspecs; Mar-26-2011 at 16:01.
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  4. #3
    dataspecs is offline Registered
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    Lightbulb Smoking Issue

    Doing a quick look around, you can be evicted for smoking in your unit, cigarettes. Never admit to anything else. Id indicate that you had several different guests who were smoking in your house, and they are no longer invited over because you were asked to stop, and that is what caused the smoking smell. If you admitted to it, just indicate to the tribunal, you did it to avoid a long winded explanation.

    As long as you are not on the property of the residence, then the tenancy agreement can no longer be in force. I haven't found anything yet to back it up, but that is in fact the case. You may have to tell the adjudicator that and I would encourage you to do so, when you go to Tribunal. Also, duty counsel will be available to you, and they can advise you how best to position it.

    *Im voting Green Party, Pirate Party, Marijuana Party, Or last choice Liberals. This would help stop discrimination for pot users. If you ever been harassed or inconvenienced because of your pot smoking, but have never voted when you can, your an idiot. If you vote Conservative and smoke pot, you are a bigger idiot, as they want to throw all pot smokers in jail. Vote for your right to exist, and get your friends to vote for your right too !
    Last edited by dataspecs; Mar-26-2011 at 16:15.

  5. #4
    dataspecs is offline Registered
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    Lightbulb Motion

    As soon as the case starts, Id make a motion to dismiss, based on the fact, that you are not smoking in your residence.

    Do not tell them this part:

    (and that any smoking you do in fact do, is off the property which landlord and tenancies act ontario is no longer in force to govern your actions.)

    Get the landlord to first admit that the complaint is about you smoking outside, and get them to admit, that you no longer smoke in the residence, that way they cannot adjust or edit what they are going to say.
    Last edited by dataspecs; Mar-26-2011 at 16:21.

  6. #5
    omnibuddy's Avatar
    omnibuddy is offline Registered+
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    Honestly, having neighbors that aren't hassling you is important. I would move and try to find a place with a more compatible community. There is no point to living somewhere if you are going to be on pins and needles all the time.
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  7. #6
    dataspecs is offline Registered
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    Quote Originally Posted by omnibuddy View Post
    Honestly, having neighbors that aren't hassling you is important. I would move and try to find a place with a more compatible community. There is no point to living somewhere if you are going to be on pins and needles all the time.
    Thats a good point, but Im a fighter not a lover.
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  8. #7
    zeocolloid is offline Registered
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    I am in Ontario and previously admitted that I was smoking pot (they caught me) and then discussed with the landlord that I wouldn’t do it on the property to which he didn’t seem to have any problem. Afterwards the other tenants began to complain that the hallway smelled threatened to leave (break their lease) which led to the landlord issuing me this form. The form clearly states that I was no longer using drugs on the premise thereby establishing this on record.
    The real argument here is whether I have “substantially: interfering with reasonable enjoyment and if smoking off the property would even be in the jurisdiction of the board. I honestly think that if I would win a hearing but would prefer to explain to the landlord why he has no case in order to save me the trouble.
    I also want to make sure that if the landlord or upstairs tenants come and talk to me again that I handle it in the best possible way. I was thinking that I would just spray myself with a lot of axe before coming in the door so that they can’t smell it and so I can deny I have done anything.

  9. #8
    dataspecs is offline Registered
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by zeocolloid View Post
    I am in Ontario and previously admitted that I was smoking pot (they caught me) and then discussed with the landlord that I wouldn’t do it on the property to which he didn’t seem to have any problem. Afterwards the other tenants began to complain that the hallway smelled threatened to leave (break their lease) which led to the landlord issuing me this form. The form clearly states that I was no longer using drugs on the premise thereby establishing this on record.
    The real argument here is whether I have “substantially: interfering with reasonable enjoyment and if smoking off the property would even be in the jurisdiction of the board. I honestly think that if I would win a hearing but would prefer to explain to the landlord why he has no case in order to save me the trouble.
    I also want to make sure that if the landlord or upstairs tenants come and talk to me again that I handle it in the best possible way. I was thinking that I would just spray myself with a lot of axe before coming in the door so that they can’t smell it and so I can deny I have done anything.
    Its possible, that another tenant is (has started) smoking weed, and you are trying to fix the problem of someone else.

    Landlord's issue eviction notices all the time, hoping that tenant's just move out and not stand up for their rights. It's not Transglobe is it? They are the worst landlord in Ontario.

    What's on the paper doesnt mean, that is what happened. Again, you could explain you said this or that for convenience when dealing with the situation later.

    Either way you want to get the situation under control, and that won't happen until you get the neighbours to stop bitching. Whatever they verbally tell you, I would show up on your hearing date, regardless what is agreed to.

    Just for background. Ive won 3 tribunals. 2 of them were landlord and tenant.

    The core of the argument is, does any of the following be used as reasonable enjoyment:

    a) can you be kicked out for the times you had been smoking in the building even though you came to a verbal agreement with landlord, in which the landlord "forgave" the offence
    b) can you be kicked out for smoking off the property and it blew to their windows
    c) can you (or anyone) be kicked out if someone had a guest whose jacket was heavy with cigarette smoke, and walked through the hallways, which offended another tenant (Im thinking no)

    I would talk to the landlord though, but not tell them what you are planning on doing. Have a friendly talk, gather information. Just let them know you are planning on staying, and you doubt that they are going to win this case.

    I would make a motion to dismiss as soon as it starts, as well as, Id move for adjournment (actually Id move for dismissal -- they will try to get it adjuorn, but I would fight it) if the tenant that is claiming you are interfering with their reasonable enjoyment, does not show up. Before you even start to defend yourself, Id force them to make a claim first in the session. If you defend yourself against the broad claim, they can adjust their attack, but if you make them spell out the specifics, they cant backtrack later.

    Either way, the tribunal is a good experience. You can go to the Canadian Legal Library (CanLII), and select Ontario. This will allow you to find case law, and precedents for your situation. Whenever you make a claim, you then refer to the case law, of that situation. The tribunals are bound to follow the legal precedents that are set by the courts. You will argue why your situation is the same as the case law cited, while the landlord or their representative, will argue how your situation does not apply in the current instance.
    Last edited by dataspecs; Mar-28-2011 at 02:46.

  10. #9
    chance942 is offline Banned
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    Make them prove that it is in fact cannabis. Most of that herbal incense crap smells just like it. I do agree about moving away.I am a fighter too so if I came home and my greens were gone that wouldn't be good for anyone.

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