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Thread: 1st ScrOG plans, feedback appreciated

  1. #1
    pinkchick is offline Registered+
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    1st ScrOG plans, feedback appreciated

    What started as a swell idea last week is now being put into practice.... Since I moved away from the Netherlands, I've been annoyed that I have difficulty getting any decent quality grass, or anything at all, especially if I want to avoid the criminal crowd. Now a friend of mine wants to try MaryJane for her Morbus Crohn, a chronic bowel disease, and I figured "How difficult can it be to grow stuff myself?"

    Okay, after a week on this and other forums, I realized it ain't that easy or cheap. My current $400 plans look as follows:

    System:
    - Cabinet ~ 3' width, 2' depth, 6' high
    - Carbon filter with UFO vent in the ceiling
    - 2 holes with thingies to keep light out at bottom
    - Doors light-proofed with soft plastic stuff (no clue what that is called in EN)
    - 400W Natriumdampflampe (halide), 8 kilo's in weight (professional quality)

    Grow:
    - ScrOG method on soil, probably for orchids or something
    - 2 long plastic containers with frame for netting, each with 2-3 plants
    - Female seeds, probably Northersn Lights x Big Buds or similar
    - 4-8 weeks on 24/0, then slowly down until 12/12 for flowering, no pruning

    My goal is excellent quality, good-okay quantity and possibly not too long until harvest.

    The box will be built in the 2nd week of August, the seeds I want to get Monday already, germinate them in water and put them in Jiffies in a small plastic greenhouse on my windowsill.

    The growbox will be placed in my bedroom. Do I need additional CO2? Do I need to be able to manipulate the light's height, how far does it need to be from the screen? How often do I need to water, how often to fertilize? What kind of timing can I expect - how long before I need to train them on the screen, how long before they fill the screen, how long for them to flower on 12/12?

    Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!

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    pinkchick is offline Registered+
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    Okay, I've been told in another forum that there is no way I'll be able to place this thing in my bedroom without something to reduce the noise. I've also been toldf that 24/0 is stupid, although I read this in one of the books... And I've been told not to do ScrOG if I want to harvest within 3 months.

    Can I grow regularly in a 6' high cupboard? ScroG to me seemed like a swell idea...

  3. #3
    jamstigator's Avatar
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    Well, starting from seed, a month to veg, two months to flower -- no matter what you do, it's gonna take about three months to get to harvest time.

    24/0 works great, forget whatever you heard that it doesn't. Sure, 20/4, or 18/6 works too, but less light/day = slower growth = less bud in the end, sooo...

    As for the noise being too loud for a bedroom, that depends more on you than anything else. In my bedroom I have four small fans going, plus a 6" centrifugal fan. The 6" fan is sorta loud, but it's also a drone, and it didn't take my brain long to just filter it out. It's just white noise to me now, hardly notice it at all. If your concern is that OTHER people will notice the noise of a centrifugal fan, yes, they very likely would. I turn mine off when I have to let anyone in.

    6' height is great. ScroG is great. 24/0 for veg is great. Forget CO2. You're on the right track.
    "Before you consider one an enemy, first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, if he *is* an enemy, you're a mile ahead, and you have his shoes."

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    pinkchick is offline Registered+
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    The Germans and Dutch seem to grow in 2 months, I've been expecting 3... we'll see how it goes. I gues it's up to nature - and a little up to my equipment I guess. Why did I ever think this would not be expensive?! I am up to 400 by now, realistic estimate. Oh well, everyone needs a hobby...

    I think I'll ditch the Scrog for the first time, though, and go for smaller growing plants. A friend of mine will get Dutch seeds for me - I want indicas, female seeds, possibly Lowryders or Top44, flowering time between 40-55 days. We'll see what the growshop suggests... As soon as I know what it's gonna be, I'll ask for advice on how many plants to set up.

    I have included a moving fan plus a muffler into my original design, though... And I have upgraded the exhaust to a bigger carbon filter - I would hate having to buy a new one after the first crop because it proved to be too small. The growbox is in my bedroom so some peace and quiet are appreciated... plus there are people visiting. Can't become a hermit just because of my "hobby"!

    I should get started 1 1/2 weeks from now, that's gonna be fun... I am girl but pretty handy with tools, yet awful about electrics - which is why both lighting and exhaust are plug-and-play, so to speak.

    Of course I'll put my camera to good use and start a construction plus grow log...

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    jamstigator's Avatar
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    The only way to grow in 2 months start-to-finish is to clone, flower immediately after rooting, and use a fast-growing strain. You can *harvest* much more often than that though, by cycling your crops. The more crop cycles you keep going, the more often you can harvest, although the amount harvested also shrinks (per area/light).

    For those who like to harvest a smaller crop monthly, they do it like this:

    Day 1 - Start X clones rooting. This is Crop 1.
    Day 30 - Start X clones rooting (Crop 2). Move Crop 1 to flowering room.
    Day 60 - Start X clones rooting (Crop 3). Move Crop 2 to flowering room. Let Crop 1 keep cooking.
    Day 90 - Harvest Crop 1. Start X clones rooting. (Crop 4.) Move Crop 3 to flowering room. Let Crop 2 keep cooking.
    Day 120 - Harvest Crop 2. Start X clones rooting (Crop 5). Move Crop 4 to flowering room. Let Crop 3 keep cooking.

    etc.

    That still takes 90 days to get to harvest, but once you do you can then harvest monthly for as long as you keep the queue full and cycling properly. This is the basis for a Sea of Green. I'd try that myself, but legal punishment where I am, if caught, is in part based on number of plants, so for me ScroG makes the most sense. Just in case.
    "Before you consider one an enemy, first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, if he *is* an enemy, you're a mile ahead, and you have his shoes."

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    This is gonna be the setup:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1st ScrOG plans, feedback appreciated-all_en.jpg  
    Last edited by pinkchick; Jul-31-2006 at 10:25.

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    Pretty similar to what one I've, er, seen. Heh. Main differences are: no muffler, and the carbon filter is outside the cabinet (on top, hidden behind books and stuff), so that the exhaust can be blown out through it. To put it inside a cabinet, with the sheer size of the filter itself plus the ducting required to connect it up (and still retain the ability to move the light up and down), well, that's a lot of precious space gone. Also seems like keeping it outside should be much less hassle when it's time to refresh the carbon. Inside is stealthier though, of course, if you have the room.

    That's a Doran 8"x8" darkroom louvre at the bottom left. Another one is in back. Takes two to give enough airflow for a 445 CFM 6" fan.

    Oh, and that's what happens when you veg too long. Lol.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1st ScrOG plans, feedback appreciated-cab.jpg  
    Last edited by jamstigator; Jul-31-2006 at 11:15.
    "Before you consider one an enemy, first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, if he *is* an enemy, you're a mile ahead, and you have his shoes."

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    [QUOTE=pinkchick]
    - 2 holes with thingies to keep light out at bottom
    [QUOTE]



    What exactly are thingies? I'm curious to know. I think by soft plastic you mean the white 'total blackout' plastic sheeting?

    You asked about 24/0 instead of 18/6, a full twenty four hours of light would benefit the plants alot, regardless of what people say, the more light the plant has the faster it grows. I had a site with all the old OG archives that explained the scientifc logic behind it, I lost it.


    I assume that's an RVK fan, so yeah it will sound like a hurricane, you can forget a night photoperiod. Your setup in the diagram is the most efficient, placing the fan outside is not effective, ideally lying the muffler flat eliminates the bend in the airflow but that won't make much difference. If you hang the fan from chains or rope attached too, say, cuphooks, you will automatically eliminate some of the vibration noise but you won't ever be able too silence that fan so its less than noticable.



    I also bought a 400W Hps and I also have very similar dimension to you and so far i've found the heat too outway its benefits. I'm considering getting some Environlites, you can find multi bulb reflectors in vegetative and flowerring so I will probaly move onto them and scrap the HPS completely, but that's not what you wana hear seeing as you already bought the HPS. Just something to think about. When it comes to scrog you really want too start 12/12 very early and train the stretch into the screen, its not any more time consuming than any other training method...., if you know what your doing.

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    MegaOctane12, what I 'saw done' to keep the fan noise down is to use a rheostat to dial down the fan speed. You can, like, tune it that way to produce less noise. With the cab airtight and closed, a 6" fan dialed down isn't really that bad. A 6" centrifugal fan spinning slower than its max can move the same amount of air as a 4" fan, or more, but do so with less noise. Photoperiod here is night, no probs. And it has to be because, yeah, the heat would be an issue with these 100+ degree F days if the lights were on during the day.

    Obviously, there's no real heat probs with the cab I posted an image of, as you can see not just an HPS light (400w) but also eight extra 30-watt warm CFL bulbs going. I think a 600w light would work okay, but that'd be less flexible in terms of light placement than a 400w and some moveable CFLs. A 600w light would be more efficient on the electric bill, I'm sure, but you can't have everything.

    What seems like it could be a problem is fitting a carbon filter into a 3' wide cab. I've seen some short, stocky barrel-shaped ones, so I guess it's possible, but those are large in diameter (to make up for the loss in length while still providing enough surface area), so that'll chew up a lot of volume. That's the only thing I'd be concerned about from that diagram.
    "Before you consider one an enemy, first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, if he *is* an enemy, you're a mile ahead, and you have his shoes."

  10. #10
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    let me see, hmmm, 18/6 is most effective way, a plant needs time to rest, like people, if a person worked 24/7 he would surely wither and die from over exertion. (DISREGARD THIS IF OVER 30 years of ALL ways of growing has no merit.)
    you may also try an autoflower strain such as a lowryder or a cross of lowryder. they are a quick to harvest strain, 8 weeks from seed popping up to harvest time. the amount harvested per plant is minimal, but very good, and many can be grown in a small space.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jamstigator
    MegaOctane12, what I 'saw done' to keep the fan noise down is to use a rheostat to dial down the fan speed. You can, like, tune it that way to produce less noise. With the cab airtight and closed, a 6" fan dialed down isn't really that bad. A 6" centrifugal fan spinning slower than its max can move the same amount of air as a 4" fan, or more, but do so with less noise. Photoperiod here is night, no probs. And it has to be because, yeah, the heat would be an issue with these 100+ degree F days if the lights were on during the day.

    Obviously, there's no real heat probs with the cab I posted an image of, as you can see not just an HPS light (400w) but also eight extra 30-watt warm CFL bulbs going. I think a 600w light would work okay, but that'd be less flexible in terms of light placement than a 400w and some moveable CFLs. A 600w light would be more efficient on the electric bill, I'm sure, but you can't have everything.

    What seems like it could be a problem is fitting a carbon filter into a 3' wide cab. I've seen some short, stocky barrel-shaped ones, so I guess it's possible, but those are large in diameter (to make up for the loss in length while still providing enough surface area), so that'll chew up a lot of volume. That's the only thing I'd be concerned about from that diagram.

    Yeah sorry man I totally forgot to mention the fan speed controller, I have one. I made the mistake of buying only a 175m3/hour fan, the smallest they do in the RVK, although this works perfectly for the space, I learned afterwards that its better too buy a more powerful fan and 'dial it down' like you said, so that you get the same exhaust power as you would the 175m3 fan but much less noise. I would probaly sell this if the opportunity came up and get a better one. Someone suggested that I use the box the fan came in and pad it with bubble wrap or use that styrofoam type material but too be honest I couldn't be assed with it. I just settled for never using the fan at night.

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    Okay, let's see....

    I'll probably start with either Big Bud or Northern Lights, I have both coming in this week - sometimes it pays to have friends still living in the Netherlands. Some of the send-a-seed shops have been busted lately, and I really want to avoid a visit from the law. I've been told not to go for lowryders with my set-up, although their low growth seems like a real advantage.

    The light "thingies" can be seen here: http://forum.hanfburg.de/upload/Tooltime11.jpg.jpg. In general, the Germans have a pretty cool construction section where I've been stealing ideas: http://forum.hanfburg.de/fhb/showthread.php?t=160044

    This is the fan that's gonna be used, it's a 410cbm/h: https://greenweedshop.de/shop/images/inline_3.jpg

    The fan is supposed to be hanging from rubber bands, usually used for bikes - I am curious to see how that works out. The carbon filter is huge and will defintely take up more space than I would want it to, even when placed horizontally - I might try placing it outside of the cab. I've gotta see what everything looks like once it arrives.

    And yes, I'll put my digicam to good use and come up with a construction report... Hopefully my first ever cabinet will be worth it.

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    I don't know if you plan on having a 'utility shelf' at the top of your cabinet or not. (Pretty handy to have, I stash twist-tie line, wire cutter, remote thermometer, digital ballast, small oscillating fan, power strips, timer, etc up there.) If so, that gave me some problems with my fan (a 6" EcoPlus fan). The fan had mounting brackets attached which were simply too large to fit in that space. It also says you can hang it with big rubber bands, but the space I had to work with was a bit too tight for that too.

    What I did was take off the mounting brackets, and cut a hole in the utility shelf. I then put down weather stripping around the hole, and laid the fan onto the weather stripping, with the fan's intake duct flange hanging down a bit through the hole. You can sorta see from this pic. The whole lay-fan-on-weather-stripping plan worked really well in terms of damping vibrational noise. The fan isn't actually screwed down or anything; just its weight and tightness in the hole I cut, and the ducting attached to the top (exhaust) and bottom (intake) holds it in place.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1st ScrOG plans, feedback appreciated-fan.jpg  
    Last edited by jamstigator; Aug-01-2006 at 06:05.
    "Before you consider one an enemy, first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, if he *is* an enemy, you're a mile ahead, and you have his shoes."

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    Quote Originally Posted by pinkchick
    The light "thingies" can be seen here: http://forum.hanfburg.de/upload/Tooltime11.jpg.jpg. In general, the Germans have a pretty cool construction section where I've been stealing ideas: http://forum.hanfburg.de/fhb/showthread.php?t=160044

    This is the fan that's gonna be used, it's a 410cbm/h: https://greenweedshop.de/shop/images/inline_3.jpg

    The fan is supposed to be hanging from rubber bands, usually used for bikes - I am curious to see how that works out. The carbon filter is huge and will defintely take up more space than I would want it to, even when placed horizontally - I might try placing it outside of the cab. I've gotta see what everything looks like once it arrives.


    Those light traps are exactly what I've been looking for, whereabouts do you buy them? Do you have a website translator, a free one, so I can read this, http://forum.hanfburg.de/fhb/showthread.php?t=160044. By rubber bands, I know the type you mean, they would work perfectly.



    Quote Originally Posted by jamstigator
    What I did was take off the mounting brackets, and cut a hole in the utility shelf. I then put down weather stripping around the hole, and laid the fan onto the weather stripping, with the fan's intake duct flange hanging down a bit through the hole. You can sorta see from this pic. The whole lay-fan-on-weather-stripping plan worked really well in terms of damping vibrational noise. The fan isn't actually screwed down or anything; just its weight and tightness in the hole I cut, and the ducting attached to the top (exhaust) and bottom (intake) holds it in place.

    Was curious to know how effective the weather stripping is in absorbing the vibration? That seems like a very logical setup taking into consideration the dimensions. What's that DORAN light trap your using for passive intake, wouldn't mind checking out whoever sells them. I notice your fan is connected too unisulated ducting, or is that the type with the yellow foamy stuff inside, instead of out?

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    The weather stripping has worked great for me, no noticeable vibration whatsoever. The Doran 8"x8" darkroom louvres, they're sold here and there, you can probaby google them. I got them from bhphotovideo.com myself, think they were about $25 each. I saw them elsewhere for around $20 I think, but I have had good experiences with bhphotovideo, so they got the business. The ducting is just el cheapo uninsulated ducting. If the noise was a major factor for me, I'd probably replace it, but since I don't really have a prob with the noise...

    Link: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search
    Last edited by jamstigator; Aug-01-2006 at 13:31.
    "Before you consider one an enemy, first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, if he *is* an enemy, you're a mile ahead, and you have his shoes."

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    The light traps are a combination of light trap and air control - air goes in, but not out. They are sold at growshops, incl. the German one I mentioned. They aren't cheap, though - 20 a piece - and I am looking for an alternative right now. The only translation site I know is http://babelfish.altavista.com/, incl. German-English.

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    One-way airflow sounds nice. They do look bigger. I guess the only time I'd really miss having that ability is when I turn my fan off, which is pretty rare, and only happens when I have to have someone in the room with the cab (last time was a satellite installation technician). On the other hand, they look big and even less stealthy than the Doran darkroom louvres. Guess it's six of one, half dozen of the other, for me. If you use co2, I could see one-way airflow louvres as being more useful, so you don't waste any co2 through leaks when your fan is off.

    Gonna try co2? I considered it, but it adds so much to the expense and complexity, and I don't sell anything, just personal consumption, so I decided against it. Doesn't mean it can't be done, I know it can, I'm just too lazy and cheap to mess with it just for personal consumption.
    "Before you consider one an enemy, first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, if he *is* an enemy, you're a mile ahead, and you have his shoes."

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    The cab's gonna be in my bedroom, which no one really enters - even without the cab, it just happens to be my messy room. Sometimes friends stay over, but I trust them 1000%, so no big deal. As for the light traps, I am not worried about light shining through from the inside, but more about light disturbing my flowering period. We'll see... I am planning a lot of trips to the hardware store next week.

    I got the wood cut up yesterday, will pick it up tomorrow... it was raining so hard yesterday that we couldn't transport it with the hood up - now I have a colleague helping me with my "book case". The actual construction wil have to be next week - which will be a challenge since I have to build the whole thing on my one - and I am just a very weak female.

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    Mind pointing me in the direction of the light traps on https://greenweedshop.de/shop ??? , they could have a translation to make it easier... what a fucking nightmare. I would definately buy one of those, seeing as its got flaps, could probaly get by with just the one.

    Jam I would prefer the darkroom louvre you recommend but the shipping is like almost twice as much as the cost of the item, I don't live in the US.

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com

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    You should be able to get similar light traps incl. one-direction air vents at a big DIY or someone specializing in ventilatioon. I found some English-speaking store as well:
    http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/...35279&id=16195

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    Funny, I checked that site and couldn't find those, thanks alot for pointing that out. Out of curiosity have you considered using a tent instead of a custom built closet ? Basically its a frame you can cut to shape, made from PVC, the smallest they do is 1m wide x 1m long x 2m tall, but you can easily measure the exact dimensions and using a hacksaw, cut it accordingly. The pieces fit together to make a pretty sturdy frame, and Total Black Out material used to make the room. Its about 94% reflective, not as good as mylar, but you could add whatever you wanted to over the top if need be. I've found its alot easier than buying and cutting wood, but suppose its different for everyone. I highly recommend these tents. http://www.growell.co.uk/p/1433/The_...GroW_Tent.html , just a thought.

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    I thought the growboxes were really handy, just not very stealth - and since people do very occasionally may enter my bedroom, someting that looks like a pretty - although weirdly dimensioned - cupboard seemed better. I got the wood cut for me, the construction will be "fun" though... Little girl, big closet - oh well. I am on vacation next week, so time oin my hands... and yes, I will definitely use my digicam for documentation!

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    Heh, that's why I went with a wood cabinet instead of a grow tent too. You're smart to put casters on your cabinet, btw. I wanted to do that, still have a pile of casters I bought, but the ceiling of my room slopes, and adding the caster would have meant moving the box forward several inches, which would have put it in the path of a door, blocking the door, so I couldn't.

    Then we had a massive power outage, lost power for 3 days, and I wanted to move the cabinet nearer window lighting, but when I went to move it, it was impossible. Hell, the cabinet alone weighs almost 300 pounds, plus the stuff inside it, and I'm not exactly a huge guy. Lacking casters, I had to resort to Plan B to provide light for those three days: batteries and flashlights!
    "Before you consider one an enemy, first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, if he *is* an enemy, you're a mile ahead, and you have his shoes."

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    Just wanted to say good luck with your construction, and are you going to put a lock on the door?
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    Okay, back online.... and my cab is almost done, pictures will follow tomorrow... As always, I ran into shitloads of difficulties, the most acute being the fact that I am still missing equipment - filter and lights have not arrived. Plus, I cannot get the fan to work - will try again tonight and otherwise call in an electrician... for my photography dark room, of course.

    As for the cabinet, it looks real good - although the casters/ wheels were too small for the weight and one broke of immediately. After the first batch, I'll try and mount it on bigger wheels, but can't be bothered right now - it's standing in the right corner and just won't be moved too much. And don't get me started on the sheer exhaustion after finally having built the cupboard and having to get it up - I am one small female, and that is one big m*f* cupboard...

    The best news - three of my four ladies are already 3cm high! I put them in Jiffies last week Tuesday, on the window sill... and they are so pretty! Which means I really need to get the lights today or tomorrow. The fourth doesn't seem to come up, I'll check again tonight and see if I can help it along, otherwise I might just add another seed. All seeds are from Female Seeds, so they should be female - otherwise I will not be a happy camper...

    So, target for this week - hope that all the equipment arrives, that I can get the fan to work and finish up the cupboard so my ladies will have it nice and warm. Their names are Ally, Amantes and Anna (after Anna Madrigal, Tales of the city) - Agatha is the one that hasn't shown up yet. Maybe it's the name? Hmmmm.... Food for thought....

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