Thread: The Definitive Green Dragon (Revised, Updated, Combined)

So I tried this for the first time about 2 weeks ago. Unfortunately, it did not turn out as well as I was hoping. I used 3.5g of bud, 2.7g of stem, and 2.4g of duff.

The first problem I had was when I did the pre-bake I did it for 5 minutes at 300, but I put it on the top rack in the oven. So it was too close to the electric heating element and it came out darker than the duff I used. Also a cloud of vapor about the size of a loaf of bread came out when I opened it up. I decided to keep going with it anyways and did the same with the stems after I ground them up. I put it on a lower rack and it came out just right (at least I think so).

So I added it to a bell jar with about 4 oz of 151. I didn't use a double boiler though. I used a steamer insert in the pot I cooked it in to keep it off the bottom. Although it was still really hot because the steamer insert was sitting on the bottom. So I think I had it way too high a temp because of this.

I let it cook for about 10 minutes before I looked at it, and boy was it boiling. Probably only an oz of 151 left in it. So I took it out, let it cool a bit, and added more 151. Lowered the temp and went back to it. At one point I put the lid on tight and shook it. Turned out it wasn't on tight and It sprayed all over me the the kitchen counter. Let it go for about 1.5 hrs I think and then strained it using cheese cloth and a garlic press. I didn't think it would work so I didn't use gloves and absorbed a lot through my skin. I ended up with about 1.5 oz.

I then started a second extraction with another 4 oz of 151 and went to my room to watch tv for about 45 minutes. Fast forward 4 hours... I wake up with a horrible weed hangover and stumble to the kitchen. As far as I could tell the material was damp but there was no 151 visible. So I decided I was done and threw out what was left.

From what I could tell it does work although it only lasts about 1.5 hrs for me. With a dose of about 20 drops. I gave my friends about 5 drops under their tongues and it got them high, but I don't think there was any THC in it really. I didn't take any for about 1 1/2 weeks and it just isn't all that strong.

So things I learned:
1) I need to do a double boiler next time. Maybe just a metal pan sitting ontop of the pot. The chef at the restaurant I work at does this when he needs a double boiler.
2) Use the rack in the middle of the oven. Not the one closest to the heating element.
3) Don't start this at 1am. You need to be awake and alert cause you can easily screw this up.

I have very good luck making my own capsules with coconut oil so I may just stick to that. I also want to try using veg glycerine. Seems like it would be a lot more user friendly than alcohol(and I don't really like alcohol anyways). I'm sure I'll give this another shot eventually, but I may try the 2 month sit and shake method. I have heard you can speed up the process of the shake method by baking the herb before doing this. Has anyone tried it like that? Either with or without baking it before starting the long extraction process.

I have been very successful when I follow the Master Wu recipe, but have also had dissapointing results when I tried to take shortcuts.
1)Dry the weed first, you seem to be on top of that now
2) Use a thermometer to keep track of the temp in your solution, set a timer to go off in 20 minutes and stay in the kitchen with your cooking.

As for the sit and wait method that has never failed me, it just is not as convenient as the Master Wu technique. My preferred method is to put the dried weed into a tincture bottle that I get at the local health food store for $2. Fill to the top with alcohol and store in a dark place for 4-8 weeks. I shake it on occasion but have found that with enough time everything takes care of itself. Once I think the tincture is ready I leave the weed in the bottle. You will gets a few small flecks of herb in the eyedropper but not enough to cause any problems (like salad in your teeth) and who knows the longer it soaks the more potential you have to extract more thc.

Yeah, I always dry the weed first. Otherwise it sticks to the coffee grinder. I definitely need to stay in the kitchen though. I'm used to making capsules with oil and letting it sit in the crock pot for 12 hours. I may actually try it in the crock pot next time. Although it's hard to tell exactly what the temp in it is. I have a candy thermometer but it doesn't fit in the crock pot. I did check the temp of the green dragon but it doesn't appear to be accurate. It never got above 150. I even stuck it in the boiling water and it still didn't clear 150 after about 1 minute. So I think it is busted. I did place an oven thermometer in the c.p. before. I think the 3 settings were at 155, 220, and 255. Oh, and when I set the oven to 300 the thermometer never went above 270. It was hung off the bottom of the top rack though. So it was a bit further away from the heating element.

On the up side though. Back when I made it and I spilled it all over my arm, and then didn't use gloves I absorbed a lot and got pretty stoned from it Woke up with a killer stoner hangover that mellowed out to a nice buzz for about 3 hours.

I like the idea of leaving the herb in the bottle too. It could get stronger as you take it.

What kind of tolerance does everyone develop to tinctures? By the end of a 2oz bottle are you taking 5 doses and just getting a light buzz? I always seem to build up a tolerance to whatever strain I'm consuming within a weeks time. Doesn't matter whether I'm smoking it or eating it.

I get a very quick tolerance buildup to GD. Went camping last week with a fresh bottle got wasted first night, took 3x next night got very stoned but lacked the spiritual experience outlined by Master Wu, 3rd night inhaled rest of bottle got a strong body stone but was very disappointed.
Moral of story-use sparingly.
While I enjoy the occasional spiritual dose I usually just take about 1/3-1/2 an eyedropper full then supplement it with smoking about 1-1.5hrs later.

Hello!

I am happy to find fans of this wonderful drink. I understand that the process of decarboxylation is important, but I am wondering how will the GD will work without it?
My method is as follows:

- Grind up ¼ oz of high quality bud and pour it into a 1/5 of everclear.
- Store it in a black bag where it is exposed to warm temperature (since its summer and I don’t have AC)
- Shake it once or twice a day while removing the cap so it can breathe.
- Use after 1 month.

I am not sure if I am doing this right. I wish I would have done the decarboxylation but it is too late for that now. Did I waste a whole ¼ or will it still work? If it won’t – is there any way to salvage what I have? I remember a year or so ago my friends had a bottle where they used this same process without decarboxylation – seemed to work for me. I would like to get the most powerful potency possible. Any advice is much appreciated.

J

Making green dragon this way works too... of course, decarboxilating the weed before soaking it in alcohol makes it stronger indeed, but if the weed was already of good quality, the difference isnt so great. Decarboxilating works better with low/mid-quality weed, as most high-quality weed is already properly cured (and thus decarboxilated).

One important thing is the bottle with the weed must be kept in a dark place, as light destroys the THC.

You may have to drink shots to have it work though. There are 25.6 oz in a fifth. When done in smaller amounts an eighth in 2oz will give a little less than 30 doses(one dose being a ml or 1 dropper full). So with a quarter in 25.6 oz you would have to drink a little less than half of a shot to get the same effect. If that is what you are going for then have fun Since you said you were going for potency you could put a shot in a drink and be flying. Also many people say you should let it go more than a month, although it will work after this amount of time still.

Please critique what I did. It did not come out very potent.

Used 4 grams of finely chopped chronic
Around 3 grams of stems from assorted strains
2.5 oz 151 Everclear

Placed pot on foil in preheated 325 oven for 5 minutes. came out a light brownish color noticed a small cloud of vapor escape when i opened the oven. I placed that immediately into a jar containing 151. I had previously heated the jar in water a bath with some water in it to 170. When the oven had 2 minutes to go i switched the water for 151. It got up to temp pretty quickly even after adding the pot since it was straight out of the oven. Had that going for 20 minutes. It stayed at a slight bubble. Temp was monitored by a digital meat thermometer, stayed 170-174. It was strained through very fine mesh and pressed well. I placed it in a small plastic bottle that had an dropper top. I figured this plastic should be ok since it had another sort of herbal extract in it previously. I let it cool and placed one full dropper into a half cup of poweraide and drank it. This was at 3:30pm, only thing I had to eat that day was a lunchable (meat, cheese, crackers) at around 11am. I started feeling some effects at 4:20 (haha), and it kept going up till 5pm when it peaked at only a half decent body buzz. It tapered off till 6pm when I decided it was time to go ahead and smoke.

Thing I think I could have done wrong:
Something in the poweraide inhibited it?
Since the 3 inch meat thermometer probe wasn't all the way submerged in something, the reading was off?
Maybe my oven got too hot? I had tested it earlier with the meat thermometer and preheated at 325 it would get upto 345 after the door was open for a several second period.

Let me know what you gurus think. I really need to find a smoking alternative. Now after years of smoking daily my inner ear starts hurting really bad after I smoke, like an ear infection.

Originally Posted by volume

Hello!

I am happy to find fans of this wonderful drink. I understand that the process of decarboxylation is important, but I am wondering how will the GD will work without it?
My method is as follows:

- Grind up ¼ oz of high quality bud and pour it into a 1/5 of everclear.
- Store it in a black bag where it is exposed to warm temperature (since its summer and I don’t have AC)
- Shake it once or twice a day while removing the cap so it can breathe.
- Use after 1 month.

I am not sure if I am doing this right. I wish I would have done the decarboxylation but it is too late for that now. Did I waste a whole ¼ or will it still work? If it won’t – is there any way to salvage what I have? I remember a year or so ago my friends had a bottle where they used this same process without decarboxylation – seemed to work for me. I would like to get the most powerful potency possible. Any advice is much appreciated.

J

It doesn't sound like the best ratio of pot to alcohol. After a month pour the liquid into a wide mouth jar or jars, straining out the weed in a coffee filter stretched over the top. Let the jars stand in a dark place without lids and let most of the alcohol evaporate. This will concentrate the magic into a smaller volume of liquid.

some of the cannaboids evaporate before reaching the 325 degrees.... so should i heat with less but for longer untill the decarboxydation occurs?

here is the list i got from a website:

This details the boiling points for the many cannabinoids in the marijuana, which all contribute to the "high".

Δ-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC)
Boiling point: 157*C / 314.6 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Euphoriant, Analgesic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antiemetic

cannabidiol (CBD)
Boiling point: 160-180*C / 320-356 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Anxiolytic, Analgesic, Antipsychotic, Antiinflammatory, Antioxidant, Antispasmodic

Cannabinol (CBN)
Boiling point: 185*C / 365 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Oxidation, breakdown, product, Sedative, Antibiotic

cannabichromene (CBC)
Boiling point: 220*C / 428 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antifungal

Δ-8-tetrahydrocannabinol (Δ-8-THC)
Boiling point: 175-178*C / 347-352.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Resembles Δ-9-THC, Less psychoactive, More stable Antiemetic

tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV)
Boiling point: < 220*C / <428 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Analgesic, Euphoriant


Terpenoid essential oils, their boiling points, and properties

β-myrcene
Boiling point: 166-168*C / 330.8-334.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Analgesic. Antiinflammatory, Antibiotic, Antimutagenic

β-caryophyllene
Boiling point: 119*C / 246.2 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory, Cytoprotective (gastric mucosa), Antimalarial

d-limonene
Boiling point: 177*C / 350.6 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Cannabinoid agonist?, Immune potentiator, Antidepressant, Antimutagenic

linalool
Boiling point: 198*C / 388.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Sedative, Antidepressant, Anxiolytic, Immune potentiator

pulegone
Boiling point: 224*C / 435.2 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Memory booster?, AChE inhibitor, Sedative, Antipyretic

1,8-cineole (eucalyptol)
Boiling point: 176*C / 348.8 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: AChE inhibitor, Increases cerebral, blood flow, Stimulant, Antibiotic, Antiviral, Antiinflammatory, Antinociceptive

α-pinene
Boiling point: 156*C / 312.8 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory, Bronchodilator, Stimulant, Antibiotic, Antineoplastic, AChE inhibitorα-terpineol
Boiling point: 217-218*C / 422.6-424.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Sedative, Antibiotic, AChE inhibitor, Antioxidant, Antimalarial

terpineol-4-ol
Boiling point: 209*C / 408.2 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: AChE inhibitor. Antibiotic

p-cymene
Boiling point: 177*C / 350.6 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antibiotic, Anticandidal, AChE inhibitor

borneol
Boiling point: 210*C / 410 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antibiotic, Δ-3-carene 0.004% 168 Antiinflammatory

Δ-3-carene
Boiling point: 168*C / 334.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Anti-inflammatory


Flavonoid and phytosterol components, their boiling points, and properties

apigenin
Boiling point: 178*C / 352.4 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Anxiolytic, Antiinflammatory, Estrogenic

quercetin
Boiling point: 250*C / 482 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antioxidant, Antimutagenic, Antiviral, Antineoplastic

cannflavin A
Boiling point: 182*C / 359.6 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: COX inhibitor, LO inhibitor

β-sitosterol
Boiling point: 134*C / 273.2 degree Fahrenheit
Properties: Antiinflammatory, 5-α-reductase, inhibitor

i did some more reading and I figuered out that if you "cure" your plants long enough you don't need to heat up your plants. it takes several weeks but i think it's worth it and maybe heating the plants is one of the reasons why some haven't had success with this recipe. poor quality marijuana and alcohol concentrations may affect potency as well

I have heard the same thing before about letting it cure long enough to be able to skip the decarb process. Has anyone here tried this and if so how were your results.

I have one question, the first step is to cut the herb up very fine. Second is to bake at 325? So why did you vaporize all the cannibinoids that vaporize before 325? Seems like a waste of some nice nugs........

Someone I know has experimented several times with Master Wu's most recent recommendations, and has never been disappointed. In an attempt to arrive at an even more concentrated tincture requiring far fewer drops than the original formula, this aquaintance has had outstanding success with the following procedure:

Ingredients:

• 1 oz. High Quality Herb Tops. No stems, shake, or other extraneous crap.
• 8 oz. Everclear (190 Proof)

Process Summary:

1. Using a small electric coffee grinder, chop herb tops to a fine, uniform mix.
2. Pre-heat oven to exactly 325 degrees.
3. Uniformly spread chopped herb in flat/shallow, oven-proof utensil, and bake at 325 degrees for exactly 5 minutes. Remove from oven IMMEDIATELY! Odor will be strong, and some steaming will be noticeable.
4. Combine baked herb with 8 oz. Everclear in tight fitting jar. Store unrefrigerated in the dark for several weeks. Even though you can proceed immediately to Step 5., a long soaking period appears to be very desirable.
5. Prepare a shallow water bath (+/- 2 in. deep) by heating a medium size pot of water.
6. Pour herb/Everclear mixture into a Pyrex measuring cup (2 cup min. size). Stay away from stove while doing this!
7. Place a thermometer into the Pyrex cup, and then place the cup into the water bath. Simmer and attempt to maintain the temperature of the Everclear mixture at +/- 170 degrees, which is just below the boiling point of alcohol. The objective is to slowly reduce the volume at a high enough temperature without rapidly boiling away the alcohol.
8. Stir the mixture frequently throughout the process while reducing the liquid volume to approximately 2 oz. This may take an hour or more, so be patient and enjoy. At some point, you should interrupt the process and temporarly decant the liquid portion into another measuring cup in order to do a rough volume check before resuming to the 2 oz. endpoint back in the original container.
9. After reducing the liquid volume to approximately 2 oz., pour all contents of the beaker into a metal coffee filter, and press the liquid out of the solid mass. Discard solid mass.
10. Perform a final filtration by pouring the previously filtered liquid thru a paper coffee filter.
11. Store tincture out of light in a colored glass dropper bottle or small plastic, opaque eyedrop bottle (an excellent portable delivery device). Your freezer is an excellent long-term storage location.

Dosage:

Each batch is slightly different, so it is best to self-titrate. A moderately strong dose would be 15 drops in a half can of beer or other drink, so I'm told. The effects are first noticeable in approximately 30 minutes, and may last 5-7 hours. The effects are very favorably enhanced throughout the experience by the moderate consumption of alcohol.

I've been thinking about attempting this by setting up the water bath in a slow cooker for an extended period of time. Anyone tried this? Would the alcohol vaporate too quickly?

Originally Posted by seeit5

I've been thinking about attempting this by setting up the water bath in a slow cooker for an extended period of time. Anyone tried this? Would the alcohol vaporate too quickly?

I've done it in a crock pot but not for an extended time. What I do is I have it in a small beaker with tin foil on the top. I push the foil down in the middle and have a digital meat thermometer in there. The evaporating alcohol seems to collect on the foil and drip back into the beaker and I lose very little alcohol in the process. There seems to be as much there as when I started. I then evaporate it all off in another larger container and smoke it instead of drinking it.

Originally Posted by misslilly

I then evaporate it all off in another larger container and smoke it instead of drinking it.

You're making hash oil, Misslilly, not tincture (which itself is nothing more than drinkable hash oil). Why not just make QWISO? Isopropyl alcohol is a hell of a lot cheaper than ethanol & (as far as I know) just as effective as a solvent. If you're going to evaporate all the solvent away, why use everclear?

There is TONS of info on making QWISO (quick wash isopropyl) hash oil on this & other forums.

It all started a few weeks ago when I first read about the GD, but first some background. I am in my twenties, weigh about 170, 5'10", exercise at least 4 days a week. I've been participating for the past six years and have been going through about 1/2oz a week ever since. I am not a chemistry student, took a bio/chem course once and sucked at every lab. I am a mediocre cook, not really my life's ambition. My friend is my assistant and has experience with keeping stable temperatures.

Back to the important story. Last week tried the GD with 3g of some decent 30's and about 1oz of Everclear. Decarboxlated at 200F for 22min. Once we started the water bath the alcohol began to burn off quickly, so we added about another 1oz of Everclear. After about 25 min (from when the alcohol/solid mixture first reached 170 degrees) we strained and garlic pressed the solids that were in a hosiery. We only had about 1/2 oz left, and we down it all. We felt it but was quick and sleepy. Our problems: (1) quality; (2) decarboxlyization time and temp; (3) temperature of alcohol mixture.

I believe it is important to note a variable that has been largely left out. The quality of the oven (most important) and range that are used in this process. An oven is a product that has low-grade, mid-grade, and high-grade levels. Amongst other factors that determine grade, the most important in this case is keeping a consistent temperature. We are trying to decarboxlyate various chemicals that have precise melting points with tools that could be very crude. In our trials we used an oven thermometer that was placed directly next to the aluminum foil tray with the substance thinly spread out. Our oven and range were very crude and found it difficult keeping a consistent temperature. Also, the temperature gauge on the oven did not match our thermometer, probably due to the sensor being located close to a wall or coil.

Our second trial: We came back the next day with a finer product and solutions to our previous problems. (1) We now had an 1/8 of some perfectly cured and dried product, around the triples level (2) decarboxlyate at 325 degrees for 5 minutes, wait for vapor and resist for a few seconds then take it out when we feel it is right (this is the general consensus I get for removing the tray). Take and place in 2oz. of alcohol in a 1 cup pyrex inside the water bath. The mixture cooked at 170 degrees for 24 minutes total. Now we used a cap to prevent the bottom of the pyrex from touching the bottom of the water pan, but we removed it halfway through for fear of the alcohol/solid mixture would tip over. Once we did that the alcohol boiled off very fast and we added another 1oz of alcohol. We removed and strained like before. This time we had 1 1/2 oz of GD, and after we placed it in a 1oz glass container it was the color of swamp water, brownish. Also, after a few minutes we were able to see settling of white particles.

Our experience: We each took 3mls in our beers on empty stomachs. We felt minor head effects and major body effects, after 30 min for about 2 hours. I took another 3ml about 3 hours after the first dose and had similar effects. One hour later I take another 3 mls and this time I barely feel anything after an hour or so. Upset I went back to the "old fashioned" way of ingesting.

Our problem: (1) When we decarboxlyated the product we didn't see a vapor until 5:02, we then took it out at about 5:07. This could be a potential problem since we were afraid to leave it in too long. Our thermometer read 310-320 for about the first 2 minutes then it rose to about 328 until we removed it. (2) Possibly the burning of alcohol and the bottom of the pyrex touching the bottom of the water bath pan could possibly be burning chemicals that we are trying to contain. (3) We removed the tray then dumped that in cold Everclear in the pyrex, we then put that in the water bath and it took a few minutes to rise to 170 and then we started the 20 minute timer.

I have read every post in this thread and have found these forums to be helpful in many other contexts. Please critique my process and offer me as many suggestions as you can. Also, I am specifically looking for a time that the tray is left in the oven after vapor begins.

Thank you for everything.

Originally Posted by grumio

You're making hash oil, Misslilly, not tincture (which itself is nothing more than drinkable hash oil). Why not just make QWISO? Isopropyl alcohol is a hell of a lot cheaper than ethanol & (as far as I know) just as effective as a solvent. If you're going to evaporate all the solvent away, why use everclear?

There is TONS of info on making QWISO (quick wash isopropyl) hash oil on this & other forums.

I like the consistency of the "oil" that I get. I can roll it up in a ball and pull of a piece off to smoke. Something I can't do with oil. I don't use much alcohol so it does not cost much. With a $16 dollar bottle I can make at least 4 batches. And I can do it indoors safely. I do want to try ISO or butane in the future though and have looked into it.

Hey sloppyj03, the one thing I can say is to put some foil loosely over your cup in the water bath and push the center down. That way when the alchol evaporates it will drip back into the cup and you should not have to add more. I don't really seem to lose any for the 20 min or so it is in there. And I use a digital meat thermomitor stuck through the foil to monitor the temp. I also like using a small crock pot for the water bath instead of doing it on the stove. It seems to keep it at a very consistent temp.

sloppy -

Putting something heavy - a pizza stone, a good-sized cast-iron skillet, etc - in your oven & pre-heating it adequately (20 min - half an hour) will help with temperature fluctuations in your oven.

As for time/temp in the oven, I've always done 325/5 minutes. My oven doesn't have glass on the door; I can't see inside, so I don't know anything about vapor rising.

As far as monitoring the temperature of the alcohol - don't bother. 151 is ~25% water, remember, but still, it cannot get hotter than ~170f - it evaporates at higher temperatures, just like water can't get hotter than 212f (yeah, at sea level, if it isn't under pressure, blah blah blah).

It's important to keep the residue that accumulates on the inside of the cooking vessel washed back into the alcohol. I use one of those little silicon "spoonulas."

The properties of your cooking vessel affect things, too. I usually use a 2-cup pyrex measuring cup, & the alc/bud mixture simmers. When I've done it in a 1-cup mason jar (thinner glass, taller, narrower, less surface area), the mixture boils much more vigorously.

is there any way i could get a pic of how the weed is arranged in the alluminum foil that gets put in the oven?

Originally Posted by ytrewq

There seems to be a lot of mystery surrounding the decarboxylation, which is the crucial step, so I've been researching. I found this patent application for thca > thc conversion and extraction: Extraction of pharmaceutically active components from plant materials - Patent 7344736

The applicant tested samples at different temperatures for different amounts of time then perfomed chemical analysis. There are 2 main factors they consider: the conversion of thca to thc, which is what you want, and breakdown of thc to cbn which you don't want.

They got good results with 221 F for 4 hours, 248 F for 1 hour, or 284 F for a half hour. Those all gave 99% conversion of thca to thc. 248 F for 1 hour had somewhat less breakdown of thc to cbn than the other two temps so it seems like the best.

If you extrapolate from the data 200 F for 20min is inadequate; you'd maybe convert half of what's available.

is this true?
should i heat the weed at 248 for an hour instead of the 325 at 5 mins?

would the decarb process work just as well if i was using a quad instead of an eighter?

Isomerization process for Green Dragon?

In this link, dragonrider talks about isomerizing a single dose of DG, my question is would you be able to isomerize the entire GD tincture before making it into a liquer, instead of doing it per serving?

Originally Posted by GDnoob

is there any way i could get a pic of how the weed is arranged in the alluminum foil that gets put in the oven?

Next time I give the GD a try, I'll post pictures but it will be a week or so. I can tell you that I just grind it in a shitty tobacco store grinder. Take out big stems and seeds, and spread it evenly over the aluminum foil. Early posts said about 3mm, I just use a spoon and spend about 1 min making sure it is even.

As for the temperature to decarboxlyate at I haven't found the perfect setting yet, it takes a few tries unless you get lucky and find the sweet spot. I only see 200 and 325 on this post, but I am going to be experimenting with different temperatures and methods, so let me know how it goes.

Good Luck.