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Thread: synthetic urine...is it detectable?

  1. #1
    zomwoman is offline Registered
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    synthetic urine...is it detectable?

    hello and thanks to all for advise on passing initial drug test..via substitution of friend's urine. now i find we have random drug test and i'm wondering if anyone could advise on the use of synthetic urine and it's reliability. or any other measures one might take in a random sitution.
    much thanks for any suggestions/know about..

  2. #2
    PerfectUrine is offline Registered
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    Quote Originally Posted by zomwoman
    hello and thanks to all for advise on passing initial drug test..via substitution of friend's urine. now i find we have random drug test and i'm wondering if anyone could advise on the use of synthetic urine and it's reliability. or any other measures one might take in a random sitution.
    much thanks for any suggestions/know about..
    The difference between synthetic and human urine samples is lgG, which is a component unique only to human urine. Unlike creatine, lgG must be found in the urine specimen being tested or it will result in non-human urine on a drug test. It depends what the sample is being tested for, but most labs now test to make sure that the sample is from a human source.

    Your best bet would be to store a real human urine sample until needed. Frozen Human urine samples can maintain integrity for up to a year. There are many companies on the web that offer pre-tested samples...(perfecturine.com)

  3. #3
    Bender's Avatar
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    Your best bet would be to store a real human urine sample until needed. Frozen Human urine samples can maintain integrity for up to a year. There are many companies on the web that offer pre-tested samples...(perfecturine.com)
    I agree... I have failed useing other stuff but for the last 3 test I have used this method and have had no problems. BUT I'm not sure how this would work for random testing...

  4. #4
    Burnt Toast is offline Moderator
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    The difference between synthetic and human urine samples is lgG, which is a component unique only to human urine. Unlike creatine, lgG must be found in the urine specimen being tested or it will result in non-human urine on a drug test. It depends what the sample is being tested for, but most labs now test to make sure that the sample is from a human source
    IgG is NOT part of drug testing/validity testing protocols. Sure there are dipsticks available to check for the presence of IgG, but under Federal US law, validity testing requires confirmation complete with quantitive amounts reported. Since quantitive values for IgG are impossible without using complicated and expensive testing (such as DNA), its therefore illegal in the US for labs to conduct IgG, or any other form of genetic testing on samples unless there is written authorization from the donor. US labs are only allowed to test for drug metabolites, creatnine, specific gravity, ph, and nitrites.

  5. #5
    PerfectUrine is offline Registered
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burnt Toast
    IgG is NOT part of drug testing/validity testing protocols. Sure there are dipsticks available to check for the presence of IgG, but under Federal US law, validity testing requires confirmation complete with quantitive amounts reported. Since quantitive values for IgG are impossible without using complicated and expensive testing (such as DNA), its therefore illegal in the US for labs to conduct IgG, or any other form of genetic testing on samples unless there is written authorization from the donor. US labs are only allowed to test for drug metabolites, creatnine, specific gravity, ph, and nitrites.
    Your 100% correct. It depends on what KIND of drug test you are taking. Always read what your signing.

  6. #6
    lizka4200 is offline Registered+
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    can they tell if its a guy spee and ur a girl?

  7. #7
    Burnt Toast is offline Moderator
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    can they tell if its a guy spee and ur a girl?
    No they cant. They would have to perform a genetic test, which is illegal unless the donor gives written permission on a completely seperate and explicit consent form. That means no hidden clauses or any other cute little tactics to trick the donor into signing.

  8. #8
    carlkurtz2009 is offline Registered
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    synthetic vs, real

    If real urine is better and works 100% of the time, then why does the synthetic stuff cost more. I would assume the more it costs, the more reliable it it.

    So far the poll I posted today says that more people have passed with synthetic then with real. Why are there so many conflicting stories? This is why I created the poll, so we can get an idea of which one has worked for the most people. After reading hundreds of posts last night, I would say it was a 50/50 answer so I wanted to have an annonymous poll. Hopefully we get one of the three that has many more votes then the others.

    If you have used either or both, please vote on the poll I created in the Drug Testing forum. If you want to make a comment about it, please use the thread above it to share your experience.
    Last edited by carlkurtz2009; Sep-20-2009 at 14:06.

  9. #9
    Burnt Toast is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burnt Toast View Post
    Sure there are dipsticks available to check for the presence of IgG,
    As that post was made 4 years ago, nearly all medical distributorships have since pulled the IgG dipstick from the market.

  10. #10
    Burnt Toast is offline Moderator
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    If real urine is better and works 100% of the time, then why does the synthetic stuff cost more.
    What makes you think this? Real urine is not always better. With real urine, you have to be really sure that the person youve got it from is indeed drug-free (that includes scripted and OTC meds to avoid hassles from the MRO). Plus you have to be sure that the person has not drank a bunch of fluids prior to giving you the sample for sub (which can lead to a "too-dilute" test result).

    Human urine also has a shorter shelf life than synthetic. Synthetic urines can be stored at room temp for much longer periods of time (up to 2 years) than human urine.

    And as far as cost goes, theres online vendors that sell dehydrated urine at a higher price than most synthetics on the market.

  11. #11
    banzeeman is offline Registered
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burnt Toast View Post
    No they cant. They would have to perform a genetic test, which is illegal unless the donor gives written permission on a completely seperate and explicit consent form. That means no hidden clauses or any other cute little tactics to trick the donor into signing.
    It is true, this was written almost 4 years ago. Can anyone confirm this now. Is synthetic urine 100%. I am taking a test for a doctor, not for a job. I think the test is about as basic as they come. They do not wathch me give the sample. They definetly do not check the temp. and although I have tested positive the last time. I have added warn water to each sample and nothing was mentioned about creatine.

    Can someone confirm that a drug test from a doctor is not as thorough as a test for a job or the law and can someone confirm that sythetic urine will pass ANY test if the can not check for igG.

    I know that these questions have been asked hundreds of times and believe me I and a lot of others appreciate the answers. It is just that each thread is different and the search feature brings up hundreds of threads to read with most of them being old. The thread is a perfect example. Things may have changed since 2004.

    Thanks to everyone that is giving updated information. Most people, like myself, have never had to take a test before and I know adding almost any adulterant is quite likely to be detected now, unlike years ago.

    If there is anyone else out there that has passed a test for a job using sythetic urine in the last year, PLEASE vote in my poll, again,I am sure there are others that would like to know. You do not have to explain anything unless you want to in the other thread I created. Just vote for one of the three choices in the poll.

    Thanks

  12. #12
    Burnt Toast is offline Moderator
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    Whats the reason why youre taking a U/A for a doctor?

    If you want confirmation, check out the regulations on Specimen Validity testing on the SAMHSA (the regulatory body of the Dept of Health & Human Services) website.

    Also, do a Google search of the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act (GINA) which was revised and signed into law in 2008 by then-Prez Bush and perhaps which dealt the final death blow to the marketing of the IgG dipstick.

    Even if the US did not have laws that protect employees from genetic profiling, Genetic testing is costly and complicated in process. And if employers were really out to deter urine subbing, they would find it to be more cost-effective to implement alternative testing methods, such as hair testing.

  13. #13
    banzeeman is offline Registered
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    I looked up Specimen Validity testing on the SAMHSA website and this is what it said;

    Substituted
    A urine specimen is reported substituted when the creatinine concentration is less than 2 mg/dL and the specific gravity is less than or equal to 1.0010 or greater than or equal to 1.0200 on both the initial and confirmatory creatinine tests (i.e., the same colorimetric test may be used to test both aliquots) and on both the initial and confirmatory specific gravity tests (i.e., a refractometer is used to test both aliquots) on two separate aliquots.


    This sounds more like a diluted specimen unless a lot of the sythetic products are low in these chemicals.

    I also checked the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act and I am a little confused. Is this reinforcing the law that has been around for years or has it changed it for the worse?

    Whats the reason why youre taking a U/A for a doctor?
    I recently went to the ER for sypmtoms that I had never experienced before, I have been taking Klonopin because I have been going through some extreme stress lately(became disabled, lost job, lost house, wife divorced me and to many things to list). The doctor thinks the symptoms I had were caused by withdrawal from Klonopin, but I have only been taking it for three months, .5mg 4xday. and I quite taking them even though they prescribed them in the hospital. It has been 11 days now and I have experienced no symptoms, so I am defintely not addicted, yet my doctor wants me off of them and he is going to test me to make sure. I am still going through A LOT of stress and I need them and do not intend to quit. I also smoke here and there and I do not want that to show up either, otherwise he will probably recommend going to a rehab facility, which I do not need, since I am not addicted to anything.

    So the questions still is, does sythetic urine work or have they passed laws that would allow labs to verify that it is real?
    Last edited by banzeeman; Sep-22-2009 at 12:06.

  14. #14
    killerweed420 is offline Banned
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    Synthetic urine still works fine as long as you get the temp right. Been a lot of recent posts here where people have used it successfully.

  15. #15
    Burnt Toast is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by banzeeman View Post
    I looked up Specimen Validity testing on the SAMHSA website and this is what it said;

    Substituted
    A urine specimen is reported substituted when the creatinine concentration is less than 2 mg/dL and the specific gravity is less than or equal to 1.0010 or greater than or equal to 1.0200 on both the initial and confirmatory creatinine tests (i.e., the same colorimetric test may be used to test both aliquots) and on both the initial and confirmatory specific gravity tests (i.e., a refractometer is used to test both aliquots) on two separate aliquots.


    This sounds more like a diluted specimen unless a lot of the sythetic products are low in these chemicals.
    If you wouldve read further, you wouldve discovered the criteria for a "diluted" sample as well. A "diluted" sample is ruled when the creatinine level is greater than, or equal to 2mg/dL, but less than 20 mg/dL and the specific gravity is greater than 1.0010, but less than 1.0030.

    I also checked the Genetic Information Nondiscrimination Act and I am a little confused. Is this reinforcing the law that has been around for years or has it changed it for the worse?
    Its a reinforcement of existing laws that were previously on the books, whith the exception being that insurance companies now cannot discriminate via genetic profiling.

    So the questions still is, does sythetic urine work or have they passed laws that would allow labs to verify that it is real?
    The above criteria in determining substituted (non-human) samples, established by SAMHSA/DHHS is still the current criteria.

    A synthetic batch thats unexpired and kept away from direct sunlight exposure will pass the integrity checks mandated.

  16. #16
    Burnt Toast is offline Moderator
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    Keep in mind too that this is a Marijuana site and drug tests pertain to marijuana only. Discussions of other drugs are off-topic and frowned upon by the forum PTB (powers that be)


  17. #17
    Burnt Toast is offline Moderator
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    Quote Originally Posted by banzeeman
    If there is anyone else out there that has passed a test for a job using sythetic urine in the last year, PLEASE vote in my poll, again,I am sure there are others that would like to know. You do not have to explain anything unless you want to in the other thread I created. Just vote for one of the three choices in the poll.
    Which poll are you referring to? Please link me to your thread containing said poll.

  18. #18
    planetearth is offline Registered
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    First sub. Help? :)

    Hello, everyone! I just purchased QuickFix 5.7 and it will be in the mail in a few days. I was wondering if this version has worked for everyone and where I should put the bottle in my clothes to make it easy to conceal! Also, I've never taken a drug test for a job before so I'm wondering what the process is like.

    I bought it in advance for the application process in case I get lucky and score a job.

  19. #19
    cheifstrongleaf is offline Registered+
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    Quote Originally Posted by planetearth View Post
    Hello, everyone! I just purchased QuickFix 5.7 and it will be in the mail in a few days. I was wondering if this version has worked for everyone and where I should put the bottle in my clothes to make it easy to conceal! Also, I've never taken a drug test for a job before so I'm wondering what the process is like.

    I bought it in advance for the application process in case I get lucky and score a job.
    First off, listen to Burnt Toast: He or she knows their shit when it comes to testing.

    Second, I passed a test last month using QF 5.7. The process will go down like this - You show up and sign in. Wait for anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour depending on how busy the collection site is. When it's your turn, the lady or gentleman will probably ask you to put the contents of your pockets into a lock box. They wont touch you at all. I don't think legally they can (burnt, you wanna chime in?). If your pants are baggy enough, you could keep it in your pocket, but I'd be safe and just crotch it. I used a pair of boxer briefs and the folds on the were perfect for carrying the bottle and heating pad in my taint region. She'll lead you to a bathroom or somewhere that has a toilet and tell you not to flush or turn on the sink. My collection site and all but one other had a solid door and a loud fan in the bathroom. The other place had two stalls and two urinals and the door into the bathroom itself was left open, but you could of course close the stall door. Open your bottle, pour it and and you're done as long as the temp is between 90 and 100 degrees.

    Just make sure that your batch isn't expired, hasn't had prolonged exposure to direct sunlight, and that the temp is right and you're golden. Don't freak out or be nervous about it: it's not a big deal and it's really easy to pull off. Just walk in like you own the place and pour your bottle in the cup and you're done. Oh, and you'll have to sign and initial the paperwork.

    Thank you again to all of the helpful posters on this site!

  20. #20
    planetearth is offline Registered
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    I ended up getting Magnum syntehtic urine instead because their quickfix batch was apparently faulty! The lot number says #060109 I'm wondering if this indicates expiration date or the time in which this product was made!

  21. #21
    festeringbovine is offline Registered
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    YES IT IS!!!!!

    I was scheduled for a pre-employment test today, and for the past week have been educating myself on the matter and found no indication QuickFix 5.7 would not work.

    However, I was immediately caught. The test was through Quest Diagnostics and the process was exactly as cheifstrongleaf described. I had a QF 5.7 vial perfectly heated to 98 degrees hidden on my body, and after removing my jacket and emptying my pockets was given a cup and left alone in the bathroom.

    The water in the sink was turned off and the water in the toilet was blue to prevent tampering. I emptied the vial into the cup but it only filled halfway to the minimum fill line they drew on it. I tried arguing that I had urological problems and couldn't produce that much, but the collector took one look at my cup (the quickfix was slightly neon, although not that noticeably) and called the supervisor.

    Apparently as a male, my urine will bubble when shaken. The quickfix did not, or at least did not do so adequately. The supervisor then sniffed the sample (quickfix is relatively odorless), and informed me I could either wait and provide a real sample or leave, which I did.

    So please my fellow stoners, do not rely on quickfix. Unless your collector is being lazy they will very easily catch on, and I just lost a very, very nice position with Intel because of the swarm of luck everyone else seemed to have with less observant collectors.

  22. #22
    thepowerrulz's Avatar
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    festeringbovine, it's guys like you who put all the nervousness into the folks on here who are looking for legit answers from credible sources. It's real simple please scan and post the results of your "test" that you eventually "passed" to prove your claim. I'm not positive because I'm not stupid enough to get caught subbing but I believe there has to be a comment put in that a second sample was required due to improper initial collection. Obviously your an idiot for not reaching the minimum 2oz requirement as you claim. If anything you did not reach the minimum and needed to provide more sample but I still don't believe you. There are no guidelines for collection that state that a sample must "foam" or that a slightly "neon" sample is grounds for rejection. A collection employee can not reject a sample based on smell, the lab will. Go eat some asparagus and see what your piss smells like then.Your full of crap and I'm tired of guys like you with 1 post who write this garbage. If what you say really happened prove it or get lost.
    Last edited by thepowerrulz; Nov-25-2009 at 08:46.

  23. #23
    thepowerrulz's Avatar
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    In reference to my last post. They will not reject samples based on smell. The lab will use specific gravity or PH to determine if a sample has been adulterated. They may make a comment that a sample had a bleach smell for example, but the test methods determine rejection.

  24. #24
    Burnt Toast is offline Moderator
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    Powerrulz is correct. 2 oz is enough for any U/A. If 2 oz is all the donor can submit, the collector has to accept it.

    Collectors cannot reject samples because of no odor. Even human samples (of both sexes) can exhibit a lack of odor. However samples are flagged when there is an obvious foreign odor thats not suppposed to be in a urine sample (ie, bleach, household chemicals, etc).

    Collectors cannot reject samples because of no foam. Even human samples (of both sexes) can exhibit a no-foam condition. However, samples can be flagged for excessive amounts of foam when the sample is shaken (due to the use of some adulterants, or if a person used Mountain Dew as a urine substitute).

    Sample color is only an issue if its an odd color thats not exhibited in human urine (blue, purple, brown, etc)

    The QF DOES NOT COME IN A VIAL! It comes in a bottle.

    All of these factors (especially the vial part) lead to some huge doubt to the veracity of your story, bovine. Sounds like youre just out on a QF smear campaign, telling a total fish story in doing so. Are you a lurking QF competitor who cant stand seeing all of the QF success stories in this forum?
    Last edited by Burnt Toast; Nov-25-2009 at 10:30.

  25. #25
    webdox is offline Registered+
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    Quote Originally Posted by festeringbovine View Post
    YES IT IS!!!!!

    I was scheduled for a pre-employment test today, and for the past week have been educating myself on the matter and found no indication QuickFix 5.7 would not work.

    However, I was immediately caught. The test was through Quest Diagnostics and the process was exactly as cheifstrongleaf described. I had a QF 5.7 vial perfectly heated to 98 degrees hidden on my body, and after removing my jacket and emptying my pockets was given a cup and left alone in the bathroom.

    The water in the sink was turned off and the water in the toilet was blue to prevent tampering. I emptied the vial into the cup but it only filled halfway to the minimum fill line they drew on it. I tried arguing that I had urological problems and couldn't produce that much, but the collector took one look at my cup (the quickfix was slightly neon, although not that noticeably) and called the supervisor.

    Apparently as a male, my urine will bubble when shaken. The quickfix did not, or at least did not do so adequately. The supervisor then sniffed the sample (quickfix is relatively odorless), and informed me I could either wait and provide a real sample or leave, which I did.

    So please my fellow stoners, do not rely on quickfix. Unless your collector is being lazy they will very easily catch on, and I just lost a very, very nice position with Intel because of the swarm of luck everyone else seemed to have with less observant collectors.
    You are 100% FOS.

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