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**stinkyattic** · #51 (**permalink**) Sep-08-2008, 12:08

Purple coloration is common in low temps. I don't really see a problem- seedlings don't all look perfect all the time, lol.
Run coco at a pH centered around 6.2/6.3. It's soilless.
You can run MH from the very start- that is not an issue unless you can't maintain temps or soil moisture.

Can we please not discuss any storks on open forum? Thank you. It's been a problem all along and has been getting out of hand lately.

Puffzter · #52 (**permalink**) Sep-08-2008, 12:53

What do you mean with storks Stinky?
Don't understand and don't wanna do something stupid.

That said.
You can even go lower than that with benefits concerning pH.

5.6-5.8 seems to be on target.
Water often, in fact you can't overwater as long as the pots are drained its fine. I water mine to runoff every 12-18 hours. Hard on nutes.
I use Hesi Coco line and was up on 100% strength when they were 18 days old and still no burning. I went to 150% with vegg nutes and started bloom nutes on 150% and went to 175% very fast. Now I am going 200%.

Now natrually you need to keep ppm monitored as different lines have different built in concentrations. But they should be able to take 1000 ppm after 3 weeks (from seed) and from there you can go up to 1600-1700 gradually over the coming weeks.

I clone straight into coco as well, no cubes. Works as a charm. I just water through the coco completelly with 300% Root Complex (Hesi) pH corrected and plant the clones freshly cut with some rooting hormones on the stems.

If your pH was between 5.3 and 6.5 it wont be a pH issue you have exeprienced. You wont have a problem using MH either as long as temp is fine you wont burn them with light. That leaves 2 likelly reasons just as stated here.
Under nuted/overnuted or genetics. (Yes you can under nute seedlings in coco)
As Stinky sais seedlings wont look perfect all the time always. Just look at mine early in the log and they turned out fine. They were so sick.
Control every parameter that you can and if those checks out fine just let them grow. As long as they grow nicelly they will bounce back from flaws and turn out fine.
The third possibility would be disease/pests but I hold that as unlikelly in this case.

If you get unexplained problems flush them with pH corrected water and then directly after add the nuted mix pH corrected and checked for correct ppm. Normally that will help. Coco grows reacts very fast.

Puffzter

daihashi · #53 (**permalink**) Sep-08-2008, 13:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puffzter

What do you mean with storks Stinky?
Don't understand and don't wanna do something stupid.

That said.
You can even go lower than that with benefits concerning pH.

5.6-5.8 seems to be on target.

yeah, I may go lower eventually. For now I'm staying at the 5.9-6.0 range because I know nothing get's locked out there. If my plants look like they pick up the pace soon I may lower it a point down to 5.8.

Quote:

Water often, in fact you can't overwater as long as the pots are drained its fine. I water mine to runoff every 12-18 hours. Hard on nutes.
I use Hesi Coco line and was up on 100% strength when they were 18 days old and still no burning. I went to 150% with vegg nutes and started bloom nutes on 150% and went to 175% very fast. Now I am going 200%.

Right now they are in 16 oz (estimated) sized pots. I used 30% perlite to 70% Canna Coco. I water them with about 8 oz of water and check on them again before I go to sleep. If the soil looks like it may dry out before I wake up in the morning I go ahead and water them. I also water them first thing when I wake up. This medium is really fantastic, it never get's sopping wet, it just stays nice and moist and well aerated.

I suspect even if I didn't have the perlite that it would not get soggy/sopping wet. As an added bonus these pots never get heavy compared to soil. I'm having to learn the 'weight' of the pot all over again.

I'll be going with Canna Coco nutes and calmag at the recommended feeding schedule. If all goes well this grow I'll increase the dose for next grow.

Quote:

Now natrually you need to keep ppm monitored as different lines have different built in concentrations. But they should be able to take 1000 ppm after 3 weeks (from seed) and from there you can go up to 1600-1700 gradually over the coming weeks.

I really need to go get an EC meter. Unfortunatley funds are kind of tight until Sept 19th or so. I'll see if I can break down and buy one before then. For now I'm just using tap water until flowering. It contains the Cal/Mag I need and it's easier to control the PH since it's already got other things in the water to help buffer the ph down.

Once I go to flower I'll be switching over to distilled water only (eventually I'll buy an RO system) and monitoring my EC/PPM

I clone straight into coco as well, no cubes. Works as a charm. I just water through the coco completelly with 300% Root Complex (Hesi) pH corrected and plant the clones freshly cup with some rooting hormones on the stems.

Quote:

If your pH was between 5.3 and 6.5 it wont be a pH issue you have exeprienced. You wont have a problem using MH either as long as temp is fine you wont burn them with light. That leaves 2 likelly reasons just as stated here.

I suspected as much. This is my first time growing with coco and vegging under HID. I didn't anticipate either my light or my PH being an issue, but because of the weirdness that came out of the seeds I thought it would be better to check in.

At least now I have confidence that it's not me and is probably just the seeds.

Quote:

Under nuted/overnuted or genetics. (Yes you can under nute seedlings in coco)
As Stinky sais seedlings wont look perfect all the time always. Just look at mine early in the log and they turned out fine. They were so sick.
Control every parameter that you can and if those checks out fine just let them grow. As long as they grow nicelly they will bounce back from flaws and turn out fine.
The third possibility would be disease/pests but I hold that as unlikelly in this case.

Puffzter

Thanks for chiming in.. the more in my log the merrier. Hopefully these plants take off. In the mean time I've been babying them pretty well. I move in about 3-4 weeks and I hope that they will be done with vegging so I can put them into flower right away. All my parameters are under control. I guess I'm just freaked out by having so many of my seeds sprout out mutated. I know the genetics were a little shakey but I wasn't expecting all of them to look like they have issues. Even if I can get just 1 to grow it will be worth it.

We'll see. Stay in touch.. not too many coco growers on this forum.

daihashi · #54 (**permalink**) Sep-11-2008, 10:28

Plants are growing great. They are finally growing out of some of their funkiness. I have at least 4 plants I'm definitely keeping.. possibly 5.

Then I have 8 newly sprouted plants that are about 10 days behind these plants. They will be going into their own small pots soon (probably tonight when the lights come back on.)

I gave them a light feeding here is the solution I mixed:

16oz Distilled water
.66 ml CalMag
.25 ml Canna Coco A Nutrient
.25 ml Canna Coco B Nutrient
PH'd between 5.7-5.9

Each plant received 8oz of water/solution.

What did I learn about this today? When using distilled water make your mixture in more than 16 oz of water. It's hard as hell to set the PH in such a little amount of water.

Next time I'll be mixing up half a gallon instead. I used 3 16 oz cups worth to water them, so it's almost half a gallon.

Pics will be coming this Saturday or Sunday. They have grown considerably since the last pics and are looking fantastic.

daihashi · #55 (**permalink**) Sep-11-2008, 10:34

WT and Weedhound... What problem did you have exactly trying to get them to finish? Did they herm on you? I know light leaks are to be avoided with this particular batch of seeds, more so than non hermed seeds.

Puffzter · #56 (**permalink**) Sep-11-2008, 10:34

Hehe I know what you mean. Once you pass the buffert value of the water a drop of pH down might send you to pH3-4 in so small amounts.
I keep a 10 gallon tank that I mix in these days because of the hazzle.

Good luck with the transplants m8.

Puffzter

TheMetal1 · #57 (**permalink**) Sep-11-2008, 10:47

Nice log Dai... good read. I just got my fall catalog and was checking out the coco section. Seems like a nice medium when you work out the kinks.

Oh yeah, has anyone ever referred to Sour Northern Lights as "Sour-ora Borealis?"

Haha I thought that would be sweeeet

Is Aurora Borealis trademarked? lol

daihashi · #58 (**permalink**) Sep-11-2008, 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puffzter

Hehe I know what you mean. Once you pass the buffert value of the water a drop of pH down might send you to pH3-4 in so small amounts.
I keep a 10 gallon tank that I mix in these days because of the hazzle.

Good luck with the transplants m8.

Puffzter

You hand water also correct? Do you have to throw any air stones in your tank? Canna nutes are expensive so I'm trying to avoid premixing a large amount and then have it go bad.

Oh yeah.. forgot to mention today is about day 9 since they popped through the soil. So today is day 9 of Veg

daihashi · #59 (**permalink**) Sep-11-2008, 11:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMetal1

Nice log Dai... good read. I just got my fall catalog and was checking out the coco section. Seems like a nice medium when you work out the kinks.

Oh yeah, has anyone ever referred to Sour Northern Lights as "Sour-ora Borealis?"

Haha I thought that would be sweeeet

Is Aurora Borealis trademarked? lol

The only bugs I really see with Coco is nutrient uptake. The coco competes for Calcium/magneseum but that's about the only problem that I've seen. Most of these issues can be avoided if you use Coco specific nutrient line.

Coco is fantastic I have to say Here are some of the pros:

Impossible to overwater. Coco is very much like a sponge in that it will only absorb so much and then the rest will run off. Soil will retain moisture and water pockets, the properties of Coco just don't allow for this to happen. So water often, your medium will always maintain the perfect moisture conditions.
Coco is pretty inert. There is some buffering in there but it typically will take on the PH of whatever you water with. This makes it very convenient as you don't have to worry about measuring your run off so frequetly
Coco comes from the husks/shells of coconuts. It is completely free of soil pests and soil diseases.
Coco naturally provides more root aeration for plants... this really seems to grow faster due to this.
Coco loves to be in the same PH range as hydro. Which is great as the roots like to be in a slightly more acidic environment than soil or a soiless grow will allow.

That's all I've figured out about coco so far in my 9 days of using it. I love this medium and honestly I'll never go back to soil and so far I question whether I would want to even go to hydro.

Coco seems to be a nice in between for soil/hydro. You get the benefits of hydro with some of the buffering of soil and ease of managing the soil temperature (ie you don't have to chill/warm your water like you do in hydro.. the medium takes care of this for you).

I am very happy with coco.

Puffzter · #60 (**permalink**) Sep-11-2008, 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by daihashi

You hand water also correct? Do you have to throw any air stones in your tank? Canna nutes are expensive so I'm trying to avoid premixing a large amount and then have it go bad.

Oh yeah.. forgot to mention today is about day 9 since they popped through the soil. So today is day 9 of Veg

Ye I handwater and why would it go bad?
I stir the tank everytime I water (every 12-18 hours) and it's all fine.
My 5 plants drink close to 1½ gallon/day so the 10 gallon tank is cleaned up and refilled every 4-6 days depending on how much I filled it last time.
I clean and fill with tapwater. Let it stand withouyt lid for 12-18 hours and mix nutes and pH correct it and after that it stands with lid on ubntil it's empty.

Puffzter

daihashi · #61 (**permalink**) Sep-11-2008, 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puffzter

Ye I handwater and why would it go bad?
I stir the tank everytime I water (every 12-18 hours) and it's all fine.
My 5 plants drink close to 1½ gallon/day so the 10 gallon tank is cleaned up and refilled every 4-6 days depending on how much I filled it last time.
I clean and fill with tapwater. Let it stand withouyt lid for 12-18 hours and mix nutes and pH correct it and after that it stands with lid on ubntil it's empty.

Puffzter

I was concerned with salt and also with bacteria building on the surface of the water.

Puffzter · #62 (**permalink**) Sep-11-2008, 12:20

No problems.

Weedhound · #63 (**permalink**) Sep-11-2008, 13:13

Shoot......sorry I forgot....dai.....will do it right now.

daihashi · #64 (**permalink**) Sep-11-2008, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weedhound

Shoot......sorry I forgot....dai.....will do it right now.

lol.. no worries.. there's a hurricane coming for me so I have other pressing issues to worry about

.

You mentioned that you had problems getting them to finish.. what did you mean, did they hermie on you all the time or what?

Thanks

Weedhound · #65 (**permalink**) Sep-11-2008, 21:14

No they got rootbound.....I was growing in those damn small buckets before and it always caused issues.

Check out my haze grow log......in my sig.....just turned an SNL x NH about two weeks ago.

daihashi · #66 (**permalink**) Sep-12-2008, 01:47

switched my lighting to 24/0. Trying to get in some extra hours of light just incase the storm knocks out my power.

I will feed again tomorrow also at 1/4 strength nutes.

Unfortunatley I will not be here this weekend to look after the plants. I have to go to work and ride out the storm. It's great overtime for me, but I'd rather be with my babies and g/f.

Not to mention my poor dog will be scared to death.. bleh

I'm going to premix a nute solution and show my g/f how to water/feed the plants. Hopefully I will be home by Sunday and the plants will be ok.

Wish me luck all.

8182KSKUSH · #67 (**permalink**) Sep-12-2008, 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by daihashi

I'm going to premix a nute solution and show my g/f how to water/feed the plants. Hopefully I will be home by Sunday and the plants will be ok.

Wish me luck all.

Famous last words! I hope not! Good luck!

daihashi · #68 (**permalink**) Sep-12-2008, 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8182KSKUSH

Famous last words! I hope not! Good luck!

I've actually decided to just pre PH some water and let her water with plain water. I didn't want to come home to burnt plants or plants with lockout due to PH issues. rofl

TheMetal1 · #69 (**permalink**) Sep-12-2008, 11:12

That's good thinking. I was just imagining you coming back home to fried plants and your girlfriend asking "Was the plant food supposed to be all chunky and the smell burn my nose?" Haha leaving the pre-pH'd water is a nice rational solution. That will get tucked away in my advice folder.

Hey... Good Luck with the storm Dai. We'll see you when you get back

Weedhound · #70 (**permalink**) Sep-12-2008, 13:17

I remember one post where a guy had his g/f water while he was gone for a day or two.
She ended up watering everything with straight ph down.....right out of the brown bottle. Needless to say the plants croaked pronto and I don't think the relationship lasted either.

daihashi · #71 (**permalink**) Sep-12-2008, 16:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weedhound

I remember one post where a guy had his g/f water while he was gone for a day or two.
She ended up watering everything with straight ph down.....right out of the brown bottle. Needless to say the plants croaked pronto and I don't think the relationship lasted either.

ARGH

luckily for me I gave her like an hour long tutorial, and I quizzed her half a day later and had her actually perform the watering in front of me. She did it right. I gave her enough ph water to last 2 days.

I PH'd the water at 5.4, I know the PH tends to rise if it sits for a few days. After two days I don't anticipate it being any higher than 6.5-6.8 which is still adequate for coco (just not ideal).

If I am still not home I will have her water with tap water (ph 7.0). It's not great, but it's better than letting the coco dry out. That would destroy my plants that are looking beautiful.

Weedhound, when you ran your SNLxNH did you get any variegated plants? I got a few and they are pretty. I hope their variegation is more pronounced as they get bigger.

daihashi · #72 (**permalink**) Sep-12-2008, 20:21

argh! My g/f decided to leave and go to her mom's house.... I want her to be safe it's just frustrating because I made plans revolving around her being home.

Either way I had her drench the plants.. completely soak as much as possible. I also had her cut out the lights and the fans. Hopefully there will be enough water in the medium to last it about 2 days or so.

Wish my plants luck

8182KSKUSH · #73 (**permalink**) Sep-12-2008, 21:29

I hope you are both safe.
It is ironic though, I mean with all the water that is coming your way, that you know, the plants might go dry!

I hope they are safe also. Good luck.

jakezking · #74 (**permalink**) Sep-14-2008, 10:16

dai, I hope you and your plants survive Ike well. He looks like a mean murf. I can't bring myself to read/look at the devastation in his path - I've dealt with hurricanes for many years, and unless you see the aftermath, you just can't imagine it. Hopefully, you are far enough inland you didn't have to deal with the surge issues.

Sounds like your plants are doing great, and have turned around nicely! My Red Colombian Haze started out a little shaky. All of my Red Colombian x NH are incredibly small beans to start. And, I had to force her cotlyedons open for light. She was a stretcher, but has since become a beautiful plant. I'm glad to hear yours have made it through their rocky beginnings, and I hope they are fine upon your return - I had some issues like yours not long ago.

Good luck, dai - stay safe, my friend!

Mr.GoodMorning02 · #75 (**permalink**) Sep-14-2008, 11:16

hey hash. I'm also growing in coco and couldn't agree more. my hydro guy told me to try it out for my next grow and honestly, it's the best stuff if you're not using a hydro system.

Was wondering if you posting pics of the progress or just documenting it all? Looking forward to seeing the haze.

morning

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