Thread: Help_Needed's Fast and Simple - aka the Oh-My-God-I'm-out-of-weed grow

Hello Cannacom .

Haven't done a full grow journal on this side yet. I started out one a while ago, but I was also running a journal for the same grow on another forum and double posting everything got old fast, so I sort of gave up. This time, though, this will be the only journal.

My last harvest was April 15. At the time I had all sorts of glorious ideas of how I was going to improve the grow next time. But unfortunately I can't grow over the summer due to heat issues, and somehow the stash that *should* have lasted 2+ years is all but gone - partly due to increased tolerance and partly due to the fact that I've started smoking to help deal with my stomach issues - I have irritable bowel disorder and weed's one of the only things that does much good for it. So, I need to get growing again, and I need to get to harvest as quickly and easily as possible. So this grow is going to be all about brushing out the cobwebs and getting back to basics.....

Strain: The strain is called Le Fruit Defendu from Amsterdammarijuanaseeds.com. It's a blueberry x haze cross that does nice things for an upset stomach without scrambling your brain so badly that you can't function. Sadly it's somewhat of a light yielder - best I've done was an ounce per plant - but that's offset by a very short flowering period. The last grow I did finished in just five weeks of 12/12. I think it had something to do with the fact that they were clones from a very mature mother.

Medium: I've got a 6-plant commercial unit that's a combination DWC and drip-fed hydro system. So far the "6-plant" part has been in name only, though. It's really to small to grow 6 full sized MJ plants. There's not enough room for the roots.

Nutrients: I'll be using the basic Lucas Formula with standard 3-part GH nutes.

Location: A 3x3 hydrohut tucked away in the back of a large walk-in closet.

Lighting: 400w HPS used throughout the grow.

Think that just about covers that basics. Right now I've got 8 cuttings sitting in an aero-cloner. They've been there almost 10 days now and haven't rooted yet. But their leaves are starting to yellow, so I'm hoping I'll see some results in the next day or two.

I'll take some pictures of the set-up tonight or tomorrow so you all can see what I'm working with.

Good luck, and welcome back.

If growing 12/12 from seed

I'm trying it now

Ya know, I've come to the conclussion that one of the "fun" (yes, I'm using the term with sarcasm lol) things about growing is that no matter how many times you've done it, you never know just what's really going to happen. So, two weeks later.........

The cloning has been less than successful, and I have no idea what went wrong. I did everything almost exactly the same as the last two times, but for some reason this time the cuttings just didn't want to root. My last two cloning attempts were very successful, giving me 7/8 clones the first time, and 8/8 the second time. THIS time, however, I only got 3/8 and two of them rooted almost 10 days later than the first one.

So, it looks like I'm going to run with three plants instead of the six I was expecting. Which means I'll be changing things up just a touch.....again lol. At very least I'll be topping all of them. And I *might* go buy some chicken wire and run this as a SCRoG. Maybe.

In any even, I'm off and running. The hydro system is set up and the clones will go in the tank this afternoon. Some numbers and such:

TDS - currently at 580ppm @ 0.7. This strain likes a lot of food, so I'll probably be topping out around 1350ppm. On the other hand, I've also thrown in some Hydroguard this time around, which I haven't really used before. So my numbers may even be a bit higher.

pH - 6.3 as of this morning. I added in some pH Down - aiming for ~5.8. I usually run around 5.6 or so, but based on the experiences of some other growers I think I'm going to let it drift a bit higher this run and try to hold it in the neighborhood of 5.8-6.0.

Temps - Ambient is about 68F. Reservoir is 72F. I haven't turned the HPS on yet, so these numbers don't mean much lol.

Pics:

The hydrohut




A close-up of the system




The babies in the cloner - the tall one is the one that rooted first.




Hi Mom

Moved the three clones into the hydro tank last night and got everything up and running. Lighting is on 18/6 for now.

And then this morning I went in to check on them and found this:





I've seen fresh cuttings hit the deck like this, but never rooted clones. I had the drip lines running too, so you wouldn't think they'd be hurting for water. Just to be safe, though, I repositioned them lower down in the net pots and made sure the roots were touching the water. They actually perked up a bit after I did that - they looked even worse when I first woke up.

The big clone is still happy at least.



While I was working with them this morning I actually had a wild thought - one I might try next time around. What if I took one clone and the LST'd it all the way around the tank and then into the center before I flowered it. Think that'd be pretty wild .

Temps seem ok too, although it's hard to be sure. It looks like my thermometer is malfunctioning. It was telling me it was 101 in the tent last night and there's no way it was that hot. I actually stood inside the tent with the doors closed and while it was warm it was quite comfortable. I'm guessing the true temp was closer to 80.

Res temps spiked with the HPS, but I sort of expected that. I've got my ghetto chiller online and it'll gradually bring the temps back down.

pH didn't change at all, despite the pH Down I added so I dumped in some more lol.

And on a happy note, while planting to clones I noticed that two other cuttings were showing a touch of vertical growth. I peaked and, yep, they're just starting to put out roots. So I'll have five plants of very different sizes lol. I'll have to do some pruning to get them all even once they've hardened a bit more.

Key Numbers:
TDS - 580ppm @ 0.7
pH - 6.4
Res Temps - 82F
Ambient Temps - ???

hi guy, sorry you're having troubles.

a couple of things that kinda jumped out at me are that first, your
cuttings are too big, if you cut them smaller, they will root easier.

another thing that might be more relevant to your current problem is
that you have them too deep in the pots, the air needs to circulate
around the plants.

all my stuff is DIY but i think you might find something useful if you
look, especially in my cloner thread.

anyway, good luck

Originally Posted by justanotherbozo

a couple of things that kinda jumped out at me are that first, your
cuttings are too big, if you cut them smaller, they will root easier.

I take cuttings below the third node and then strip the bottom node off when I trim them up before putting them in the cloner. The way the cloner is set up there's not really any way to take them any smaller. Also, they've all put on a bit of vertical growth while they were in the cloner so what you're seeing is a big bigger than they started out (a lot bigger in the one's case).

That said, I'm thinking that part of the problem is that these cuttings came from top part of the plant. Cuttings that come from further down seem to root easier. Also, I'm thinking I might have mixed the Clonex/Hydroguard solution a bit richer than I usually do. I'm wondering if that might have slowed down the rooting process. Finally, the last two clone grows I've run were started in the dead of winter. Then it was a challenge to keep the cloning solution warm enough (I added a fish tank heater to the cloner lol). This time the cloning was done much earlier in the fall, and it's been a bit warmish lately. So I'm thinking that my cloning solution was probably warmer than optimal, which accounts for the slow results.

another thing that might be more relevant to your current problem is
that you have them too deep in the pots, the air needs to circulate
around the plants.

That's a good point, and I think I might be in a bit of a catch-22 here. I actually had them a lot higher, but then the roots won't reach the water, and for some reason the drip lines aren't keeping them wet enough. Maybe I'll get a small clap-style fan and attach it high up on one of the corner polls so that it's blowing down onto those two cuttings.

you could also top-feed until you see roots although the drip lines are
supposed to be doing just that.

come take a look at my cloner thread, i'm no expert but i did get input
from some of the more knowledgable folks here so the thread is filled
with useful cloning info.

then go check out a few of the other cloning threads, 'cause even
accounting for new growth, i still think your cuts are too big. not that
it can't work with cuts of this size, just that it makes it harder for them
to root.

lol, really man, i'm not criticizing you, just suggesting that you do some
further research in the areas where you're experiencing problems.
it's already very obvious that you're not just another noob looking for
someone to hold his hand, you're someone who has already invested many
hours of study.

that being said, good luck man, really, i hope you have a truely great grow.

Originally Posted by justanotherbozo

lol, really man, i'm not criticizing you, just suggesting that you do some
further research in the areas where you're experiencing problems.
it's already very obvious that you're not just another noob looking for
someone to hold his hand, you're someone who has already invested many
hours of study.

that being said, good luck man, really, i hope you have a truely great grow.

No criticism was perceived and I really appreciate the input .



This is about what they looked like when I put them in there. This isn't the same batch, though. I think this was from two grows ago, but don't remember for sure. You can't tell from the pics, but the little unit they're in is an 8 plant aero-cloner. I love the thing because it takes a lot of work out of cloning. You don't have to cut the leaves up or mist the cuttings. Normally you just fill it and forget it.

This is the fourth or fifth batch of clones I've run through it, and this is the only time (besides the very first one when I screwed up the temps) where I've had any issue with it. As far as I can remember, I did everything pretty much the same as before so I don't know for sure what went wrong.

I'm actually really surprised I'm having this much trouble. This strain usually clones really easily. Oh well, on a positive note I stopped in at the house to let the dog out during lunch and took a peek. One of the two has stood all the way back up, and the other one's about half way there so that should be good.

On a sad note, while I was moving things around this morning I accidently set the cloner on top of the mini-fridge I use as a water chiller. That fridge puts out a lot of heat and, well, if the cloner were larger the nutrient solution would have made for a comfortable bath . The cuttings weren't showing any strain, but I'm betting I cooked the roots.

lol, all my stuff is DIY, even my cloner.

good luck with the cuts, i hope you didn't cook them

come check out my cloner, tell me what you think

Well, the two sick clones popped back up yesterday, so that's a relief. And the ones still in the cloner that I thought I cooked are doing just fine too. Hopefully I'll have the last two moved into the tank by this weekend and then I can think about switching to 12/12 on Monday or Tuesday.

Res temps dropped to 77 during lights out, but then climbed back up to 84 when the lights came on. That's a bit too high for a DWC, but then again I've got a boatload of air flowing through the reservoir and the plants are all directly above the two air disks I have in there. So I'm not too worried yet. I added some mylar over the top of the reservoir to block out most of the light and help with the temps.

The pH is refusing to move much either, for some reason. It was down to 6.2 this morning, so I added yet another dose of pH Down. The bottle I have is a year old now, so I'm starting to wonder, does pH Down go bad?

Last, but not least, there was some discussion yesterday about how low I've got the two trouble clones in the pots and whether they were getting enough air flow. I had originally planned to add a desktop type of fan into the tent, blowing down onto the plants, but after stopping at three different stores, I couldn't find one. Found a shitload of space heaters though. Guess it's just the wrong season to be shopping for fans . In any event, I had a stray thought that I was able to confirm when I got home....Think about it. Those aren't regular pots, they're NET pots. Which means they're open to air on the sides. The way I've got them planted right now, the hydrotron doesn't fill the pot all the way, and they're situated right over the air stones. So there's plenty of air movement in there, it's just that the air's not coming from where we expect it to.

Today's Key Numbers:
TDS - 570ppm @ 0.7
pH - 6.2
Res Temps - 84F
Ambient Temps - 85F @ lights on, 76F @ lights off

Just a quick note to pass on something I just learned. Water chillers don't work if the intake hose is kinked . Guess that'll take care of my res temp problem lol.

Made some minor adjustments this morning. Nothing really earth shattering, but at least I did *something* lol

Res temps are continuing to drop now. They topped out at 81F with lights on this morning. The chiller will really only drop the temp by 1-2 degrees each day, so it'll be another week or so before it hits optimal. But we're getting there.

I increased the nute concentration a little bit, mainly because I realized I didn't have as much in there as I thought. My usual target for clone has been about 500 - 550 ppm, and this batch was riding around 570. But then after my question about the pH Down going bad, I remembered that I'm using tap water and Hydroguard this time around. So my actual nute strength isn't as strong as I thought.

Last, I added the final two clones into the tank. They weren't quite ready, but the hydro cloner was running out of fluid, and I didn't want to waste another batch just for a couple of extra days.

Today's Key Numbers
TDS - 650ppm @ 0.7
pH - 5.8
Res Temps - 81F
Ambient temps - 83F lights on, 77F lights off

Pics
I apologize in advance for the poor quality. I took these just before heading out the door for work and my flash was out of batteries so I used the HPS as a light source. I didn't adjust my camera settings to compensate, so the pics look like crap. Sorry




Overall shot showing the mylar sheeting I added. It doesn't stay very well, and for some reason the duct tape doesn't like to stick to the sides of the res. Once the plants get a bit bigger so they provide some cover, I'll be able to get rid of it.





The sick clones. They've recovered kind of nicely, although they're still a bit ragged. I realized last night that all of the clones, including the ones still in the cloner, were showing a bit of N-toxicity. This actually tends to confirm my guess that I might have mixed the cloning solution too rich.




The big clone. Quite frankly it looks like shit, and I'm a bit concerned with it. There *shouldn't* be anything wrong with it at this stage - there simply hasn't been time for something to go wrong. I double checked this morning and there's been some significant extra root development, with a few already starting to grow directly into the res. There's also a ton of new growth that's just starting to come in. So I'm going to worry too much about it. If the new growth starts showing the same problems, then I'll worry.





Most recent babies. They just went into the tank today, and their roots aren't super well developed yet. So I took extra care in planting them to make sure the roots could reach the water.

Well if it makes you feel any better, I'm much worse at cloning than you. <G>
I've always been a seed grower but I discovered that I needed to keep some strains going without a seed crop, so I'm trying to take cuttings. ANd I"m trying to keep them alive. My infant mortality rate is very sad. I shoud really read up on this site more on how the successful people do it.

Hey, good luck. I'm sure you'll get a decent crop and improve with time.

Shov

Originally Posted by Shovelhandle

Well if it makes you feel any better, I'm much worse at cloning than you. <G>
I've always been a seed grower but I discovered that I needed to keep some strains going without a seed crop, so I'm trying to take cuttings. ANd I"m trying to keep them alive. My infant mortality rate is very sad. I shoud really read up on this site more on how the successful people do it.

Hey, good luck. I'm sure you'll get a decent crop and improve with time.

Shov

Hiya, Shov. Thanks for stopping in .

Yeah, I guess clones just always look really ugly when they start out. Last time I left them in the cloner way too long and they were pretty big, but had serious nute deficiencies. They took off like a shot as soon as I planted them, though. I figure if these live out the next week, I'll be doing good. If not, well.....I still have Mom and there's always another chance. But I'm gonna run out of weed here soon lol.

Oh well, I'm about ready for a T-break anyway lol.

Just a minor status update. Not much is happening yet.

I increased the TDS to about 750ppm. I'm also gradually starting to lower the light into true grow position. The reservoir chiller is finally starting to make headway, too. Res temps were down to 78F this morning.

The large clone's roots has fully hit the water now, and its starting to take off. There are two full size fan leaves that have come in at the top in just the last 24 hours, and the side shoots are about half way developed. I pulled of a couple of the most damaged leave (the ones with little or no green) this morning. Hopefully the other four clones will wake up in another couple of days. As soon as I've seen signs that all five have adapted to the new environment, I'll switch to 12/12.

Today's Key Numbers
TDS - ~750ppm
pH - 5.9 (It'll go down a bit with the additional nutes).
Ambient Temps - 83F lights on, 76F lights off
Res Temps - 78F and falling

I've often wondered how wise my decision to forgro growing during the summer was - especially as I watch my supply dwindle. I'm now learning the hard way that it was a good choice and that my environment can't handle very much external heat.

We're having a genuine bonifide Indian Summer here (is that even the right term or has it been replaced by something PC? lol). The temps had dropped a lot in early October, leading me to try to start my grow a few weeks earlier than I'd originally planned. And now? Daytime temps are getting into the high 70's and low 80's again. Night time hasn't dropped below freezing in almost 10 days. Of course I already turned the AC off for the year, so the house is an oven. And it's bloody killing my garden .

Res temps are back in the low 80's. The chiller's barely holding its own. Ambient temps are around 87F with lights on, and didn't go below 80 during lights off yesterday afternoon. Where oh where has good old Jack Frost gone?

To make things a bit more interesting, the clones aren't growing at the same rate. The big clone is taking off and, quite frankly, is ready for 12/12 lighting. It's also showing some K deficiencies because I've got the nute concentration too low to support it's growth rate. Two of the smaller clones are also starting to grow and show similar deficiencies. I peeked and their roots are just starting to hit the water. And the other two clones....may not make it. They're looking the worse for wear and one of them has lost several of it's leaves because they simply dried out and crumbled. Oh well, three plants is better than none, I guess.

Today's Key Numbers
TDS - 760ppm, added nutes to increase it to a target 950ppm.
pH - 5.8
Res Temp - 83F
Ambient Temps - 87F lights on, 80F lights off .

Pics:

The big clone. Those big leaves you're seeing came in after it was planted. The original leaves (the ones that drooped so badly in early pictures) have all died and been removed.




The "healthy" clones. Yes, I'm using the term liberally. They're both showing nute deficits, but they're starting to grow now that their roots have reached the main res.





Sickies. Despite the fact that the first one has been in the tank the whole time, I'm not seeing any root growth from it. The other one isn't doing well either. Since everything else is the same for all the plants, I'm guessing these two just haven't survived the transplant shock very well.

First, the weather and related temps are still kicking my ass. I'm still running in the mid-high 80's during lights on, and high 70's during lights off. Res temps are hovering around 84. I've got a boatload of air pumping into the reservoir, so that's helping to keep the plants happy in spite of the high temps, at least for now.

Three of the five clones have taken off and are starting to show some healthy growth. The other two are....well....I have no idea, honestly lol. They're not dead, and they're not growing. They're just sitting there. Oh well, I've already reconciled to the fact that I'm only going to have three plants this run, so I guess I can live with it.

So, as of this morning I switched over to 12/12. The sick clones can either catch up or die. I'm tired of waiting for them lol.

Today's Key Numbers
TDS - 850ppm. I added enough additional nutes to bring it up to a target of 950ppm.
pH - 5.8 and rock steady. I'm probably jinxing myself but I've never had a grow stay this solid on the pH before. Must be the tap water.
Res Temps - 84F
Ambient Temps - 87F lights on, 79F lights off

Pics

The big one - It's getting really big. I'm probably going to have to do some LST or SCroG type of work with this one to keep it from overshadowing the others.




The other two - They're growing well. The smaller one hasn't put out as many new leaves, but it's grown vertically.





The sickies - Notice there's been absolutely no change in the last 5 days. Now, it's do or die. If they haven't shown some signs of growth in a couple of days, I'll go ahead and chop them.

Well, as the this entry's title says, Mother Nature finally took pity on me and lowered the outside temps. It's almost fall-like again lol.

The three healthy plants are growing well. In fact I've started to do a little LST work on the biggest one, and since this strain stretches like mad during the first couple weeks of 12/12, I'll probably put a couple of bends in the smaller two before it's over just to increase my yield a bit.

The two sick clones just never recovered - no growth at all, even after switching to 12/12. So I pulled them, which was probably a good thing. One of the two was just starting to get a bit of root rot. Good thing I've already got the hydroguard in the tank heh.

Key numbers
TDS - 1000ppm @ 0.7 and climbing
pH - 5.8
Res Temps - 77F and falling
Ambient Temps - 81F @ lights on; 72F @ lights off

Pics

I moved the two smaller plants around in the reservoir to spread them out a bit.




This is the biggest plant. I've started to LST it a bit to keep it even with the other two as well as to get a bit extra at harvest.




The smaller plants. Now that they've grown far enough out of the net pots, I've removed the lower leaves and shoots, and filled the pots up the rest of the way with hydrotron to so they have enough stability to stay upright when they get bigger.

I'm starting to think this grow is going to drive me to intoxication. Oh wait, that's the whole POINT of the grow, isn't it? .

Still, considering this will be my third grow with this strain, and considering that last time I didn't have any problems at all, this particular grow has been somewhat disappointing. I *thought* I had this strain dialed in for my set-up, but.......*sigh*.

The three remaining plants are doing ok, but they're not taking off like I've seen them do in my last grows. The 12/12 stretch didn't really happen. In addition, they've all developed N deficiency over the last few days, mostly because I wasn't as aggressive at raising the TDS as I should have been. Then again, I've been at or over 1000ppm for a week now, which should have been sufficient for N, although other nutes might have given me problems. I'm guessing that the extra ppm's I'm getting from the tap water is messing up my numbers a bit.

The good news is that I've got some small but noticable buds starting to form - right on schedule. And I've done some minor LST work on all of the plants, basically bending them over to expose more bud sites to the light.

Key numbers
TDS - 1330ppm @ 0.7 (I'm thinking I might have to go as high as 1500)
pH - 5.7
Ambient Temps - 80F, lights on; 74F lights off
Res Temps - 80F

Pics

The garden - notice the yellowing on the back plant. They're all getting it a bit, but that one's the most noticeable. The new growth looks like it's coming in green, so I think I've got it corrected.


Close-ups




Bud porn!! - not much there yet, but not bad considering I've been on 12/12 for 11 days now.

Not much to say, really. The grow is progressing well, all things considered. The weather is *still* giving me fits - we've barely had our first snowfall, which is like two months later than normal. Otherwise, the plants are healthy and happy.

One minor problem, it looks like this time around I've got a touch of algae in the reservoir. I've added some more hydroguard - it was time for it anyway - which should keep it in check. It doesn't seem to be hurting the plants at all, and isn't completely taking over, so I'm not going to worry about it now. And quite frankly, I'm not 100% certain it's algae. My nute isn't quite the same one I'm used to, so it may just be a bit darker than normal.

Oh, and for some reason my air stones are conking out already. I usually replace them after every grow, but for some reason they're just sort of puttering. I'll get some new ones this afternoon.

Key Numbers
TDS: 1400ppm @0.7 - This seems to be the plants' "happy spot" for this mix of nutes.
pH: 5.7
Res Temps: 75F
Ambient temps: 79F, lights on; 71F, lights off

Pics

The garden: It's filled in quite a bit, but there's been almost NO vertical growth. I've never played with LST before at all, and it's kind of cool seeing how short the plants are. I've had problems in the past with them growing into the light at the end of the grow when I didn't have any room to raise it. Maybe I'll have to make the light LST I did part of my standard procedure.


Some bud porn. They're coming in nicely. If this grow mimics the last one, I'm two weeks and a few days away from harvest.

Hey again, GC. Sorry for the long absence but I've been busy and I sorta let the grow log go dormant for a bit heh. The grow's still going well, though.

This strain confuses me. Despite the fact that I'm growing from clones this run has be quite different from the last one. At this time on my last grow I was cutting down plants and trimming colas. This time around I've got probably another 5-7 day to go. On the plus side, I don't remember the colas from last grow being quite so fat as they are this time.

A couple of thoughts of note - First, although Mr. Lukas abhors any sort of additives or flushing and strongly recommends against both in his nute program, I've started to do a mild flush this time around just to see what happens. Second, a couple of the colas have gotten too heavy for the plants to support (hate when that happens ) so I've got a couple of nylon zip lines holding them up.

Key Numbers
TDS - Unknown
pH - 6.0 (I got complacent and let it creep up a bit)
Res Temps: 70F
Ambient Temps: 72F, lights on; 64F lights off

Pics