10/27/09 Mother Clones
All mother clones have been transplanted into rockwool. In some cases there were only root bumps - in these cases I was able to swirl that portion of the stem in Olivia's coning gel & place into cubes. In cases where the roots were more developed I gently "painted" the roots with the rooting hormone and placed them carefully inside a split RW cube which I then bound together with twist ties - this has been successful for me in the past when I've had to place large sprouted seeds into RW cubes. I added Clonex in the recommended dosage to the water I'm feeding the mother clones & they look much healthier & are retaining more of their green coloring & in some cases getting it back. I want the plants strong for obvious reasons.
Some of the clones were taken 10/19/09 and have roots popping out the bottoms of the cubes, but not as much as I'd like before I transfer them into the dutch buckets. I've added 2 more cuttings of each original cloned plant plus two cuttings of the favorite Sugar Blossoms and Blueberry plant. Pray for pistils. Luck be a Lady tonight, luck be a Lady tonight, stick with me baby, I'm the fella you came in with, luck be a Lady tonight. I'm willing them into femaleness, with this song running through my head.
10/30/09 Update! - Sugar Blossom 'charlie' - the object of my affection has sprung a white hair or two - it's a girl! Blueberry 'bravo' is still playing hard to get.
Sexed a bunch of plants by pre-flowers today, I only pull plants that I wouldn't want even if it was a female or that have shown ball clusters in the sexing cloner. Pre-flowers are just too tricky, I'm only certain of them when they sprout hairs or show more than one pre-flower in a cluster like I mentioned before.
Since I'm pulling plants that have had large root masses intertwine with those of their neighbors I added 10 ml per gallon of Hygrozyme to each reservoir. I topped off all the reservoirs to 10 gallons, added the Hygrozyme (100ml/reservoir)) & adjusted the PHs to 5.8 - I know, boring standard stuff - but it's good to mention every now and then.
The addition of Hygrozyme alone may not be enough to ward off pathogens associated with the dead organic matter left behind since it is a lot. So, I'm contemplating moving the plants in the veg room into flower units. This way the debris from their root system will be left behind and all they will have is fresh new roots.
I must say that I am absolutely humbled by your abilities.
Your grow is vibrant, lush and happy. Not to mention your top notch genetics. The Breeders you mentioned in another thread are "bottled in bond" af far as I'm concerned.
Damn me to hell...
I tried to give you rep, but ended up subtracting it!
May I ask why negative rep is the default choice?
Many, many apologies my friend.
Merry, your compliments mean so much to me and made my day (I'm just sorry about asking the mods to fix our reputation mishap, I didn't want you to think I took it badly - I'm just over "tidy" that way ) What you wrote absolutely made my day. I wish I could send you a PM. Your words mean much more than a silly rep button.
11/1/09 Update - End of second week of flowering, first day of third week
Hi again. A few things to show this week: a lot of moving around was done, plus I put an emergency flush through my dutch bucket system - the pics will explain why. But overall, things seem to be on track as we move forward into the next phases of the grow. Also I got an eyeclops! There will be trichome pics in the future!
I've got my usual weekly update pics of the different groups, but I want to devote most of this week's update to problems I've been having with one plant: my Cinderella 99 'grapefruit'. So here is a quick Update of Group 1 plus some random pretty photos from Group 1.
Group 1 General Update Photos:
The smaller plants in group 1
11/1/09 Update Group 1 C99 'grapefruit' woes
I realize this could be over reaction of an over-anxious "parent," the place where the perceived damage is is also the part of the plant that faced away from the vegging light - but it could be something more...
This is C99 'grapefruit' in full, I separated her from the others with a cardboard divider to show a clearer picture of the plant
As to the health of C99 'grapefruit' from Group 1, I couldn't say what is happening for certain and it is curious because whatever is effecting her is only effecting her and not the other plants in the system.
The best way to start to describe it is I noticed she was getting sparser than her sisters and that her leaves, seemingly from the middle were turning yellow - oddly not really dying, but going very, very yellow. New growth is green, but seems small which could indicate something specific or just be a reflection of. There is also a whole side to the plant that is lush and dark green and appears unaffected.
Close up of a leaf typical of the ones making me worry about the health of 'grapefruit'
This will surely effect yield but I wonder what it could possibly be - she's certainly getting enough nutrients, the highest PPM is 1500 and I'm using and if it were a fungus or bacterial problem, I'd imagine I would see something from the others - so I went with what I thought was my best option - I flushed the entire dutch bucket system (Group 1) for 24 hours using FloraKleen at the higher end of the recommended concentration of 2 tsp FloraKleen per gallon of plain water. I was nervous about taking away nutrients for too long while flowering, but figured 36 hours was an acceptable period especially as 24 of those hours were during the night cycle. I even let her bucket "flood" a little so as to clear as much of the hydroton as possible.
A troubling center shot of C99 'grapefruit' where the problem seems to emanate from. I took it under a different light to get a "truer" less yellow picture.
I'm torn between several deficiencies, lockout & overferting! Another thing to note - I've also noticed similar but far less extensive chlorosis on some of the fan leaves of grapefruit's sister plant, pineapple. C99 'grapefruit' could be slowly dying - I'm not too concerned, except as it effects the other healthy plants in the system as I have rooted cuttings of her - the plants from seed were more of a bonus harvest & a practice run before commencing the perpetual grow, so no whining here. But I'm very curious as to what is up with this plant. I'm going with Mg lockout for now - but I diagnose nothing with confidence - I've seen things that could indicate possible iron deficiency, over-nuting, nutrient lockout, potassium deficiency, nitrogen deficiency... so who knows and I am sure part of this is over analyzing the situation. I hesitate to say it is PH issues, as I am very on top of the PH and the fluctuation only goes up a point on average. I also don't think that over-concentration of nutrients are causing nutrient burn as I've been topping off the reservoirs frequently which keeps the PPMs low.
A picture of some of the healthy parts of the troublesome plant.
Hopefully the flush will have removed whatever was causing the trouble. As I've mentioned, I've started to supplement the plants with 5ml/gal of Cal-Mag+ and everyone seems to be loving it except our C99 'grapefruit' who is getting yellow. Perhaps I did not add it fast enough? Curiouser & curiouser... If anyone has any ideas - I'd love to hear them. Also, I should mention that the dutch buckets with the largest plants (grapefruit & pineapple) have occasionally flooded - I didn't know that this was a complication of dutch buckets when I went for the system - I resolved the issue each time, but maybe the flooding has something to do with it.
I took a bunch of pictures from different angles & under different lighting. One thing that occurred to me is it may have looked worse than it is b/c the yellow light of the Super HPS may have looked like more yellow leaves than there actually were.
The plant as it appeared under a brighter flash
The plant as it appeared under the HPS lighting.
This is a picture of C99 'pineapple', C99 'grapefruit's sister - she has some leaves exhibiting chlorosis but appears to not be suffering to the extend that 'grapefruit' is. Hopefully this is normal and not a sign of degeneration to come.
Additional leaves off of 'grapefruit' in various states of chlorosis.
Group 2 & Mother Clones in Rockwool
Group 2 pictures:
Group 2's Root system:
My Apollo 11 X C99 has really taken off and surprised me, she burst her neoprene collar (!) and is growing... like a weed. Long arms & lots of blooms, she's a lovely girl. I thought because of some bad luck early on - I'd end up with a lesser mother, but it looks as if with this strain, I've struck the jackpot. As you can see from the pictures, the Cal-Mag+ has turned these guys a deep green. Speaking of mothers - they are doing very well and ready for transplant, check out the new growth.
Mother Clones in Rockwool:
These guys are basically ready to plant into their hydroton buckets and will be very soon. The transition from the aerocloner to the rockwool wasn't as traumatic as I thought it would be & they have a nice survival rate - they're already throwing out new growth.
Last edited by Apollonia; Nov-10-2009 at 08:49. Reason: Added roots pics
The next big event was moving the plants of Group 3 in the veg room into flower units - I pulled quite a few males and put my strongest plants & desired mothers into flower units to give them more space. My 'duds' are in the last remaining veg unit - and they are duds, some of them cannot even stand up on their own. Cuttings for mothers were taken of the Blue Apollo, Sugar Berry & Apollo 11 strains. The cloned strains already transplanted to rockwool are ready and rooted. They will make the transition to the dutch bucket mother system soon as I make room by putting the plants in the veg unit into a flower unit & move it to the flower room - this will likely happen this coming Sunday. We'll see what the duds can produce in terms of bud.
Group 3's 'duds', these plants were not good enough to preserve as clones for mothers, but moved to a flower unit & placed in the flower room, they may produce some nice extra harvest.
I think I've eradicated the last of the males. Interesting note, the Blueberrys turned out to be the most difficult to sex, producing pre-flowers & even early regular flowers that are quite spherical, usually an indicator of male sex. Making it more difficult is the females only throw out a tiny white hair which is very hard to spot. And they all showed indicators of sex far later than all the other strains - in vegetative growth and even under the 12/12 lighting. I'd incorrectly identified Blueberry 'foxtrot' as a female, but when I checked the cutting I put in the sex cloner - I found out that foxtrot was in fact a male! I don't know if I hermied him/her or just read a stipule as the white hair of a pistil, as they were so tiny on the others - but the clone cutting had balls - two of them in each crevice, so I pulled it from the system.
This is flower unit 1, it holds several mothers & second bests - I've taken clones of more than one of the strains Blue Apollo, Apollo 11, and Sugar Berry as there was no one plant that greatly out-shined all others as was the case with Blueberry & Sugar Blossoms. With Sugar Berry there were two top runners, so close in quality I had to take cuttings from both & determine who will be the mother based on the final results of flowering out the seeded plants.
Flower Unit 2 - this holds the mothers of Blueberry & Sugar Blossoms, as their clones have rooted (plus I have additional cuttings in the aerocloner just in case) I may flower them out along with the runners up in the unit instead of transferring them into flower unit 1 with the rest of the mothers, we shall see.
The one comment I noticed when scanning your thread was that you run your nutes to 1500ppm. I also grow aero, though I keep my mothers in soilless mix. I've been experimenting with topping out nutrients 800ppm at the high point during flower and it's working great for me. My systems are VERY similar to yours.. constructed with 5" vinyl fence posts, and 3" General Hydroponic net pots (aeroflow parts), but I used in adjustable drains where I can maintain a little bit of water in the channels. For veg, I have one 2x6 system, that feeds three 2x3 systems (6 plants) used for flower, where I try to harvest one every three weeks. I typically get about 12 oz dried bud from one 6 plant system and enough trim/trash for about 15g killer hash.
For the one plant in your photos that was loosing leaves.. From the top, it kind of looked like you may have developed a root rot problem. Did your roots start turning brown and smelling bad? I know I have real issues when the reservoirs start getting above 68 degrees F. I lost a system over the summer due to root rot, looked just like that. Suffered through August using H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) to combat it, though once it cooled off, all of that kind of issue went away. I'm going to bite the bullet for next year and get 4 chillers, 1 for each of my systems.
Have you harvested from your aero systems yet?
My First Grow - http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/...l-cabinet.html
Second try - http://boards.cannabis.com/closet-ca...-2nd-grow.html
Workin' on being a green ..
And I've yet to harvest anything from anything - this is my very first grow.
You'll see it in my next update if you read it, but I incorporated this comment o yours into my thinking. It's happening in the dutch bucket, not the aero system. The stink is what gives away the root rot? As of now, I think I eliminated whatever the problem was. The badly damaged leaves were lost, but the new growth is developing and the buds are just as big as her sister plants'... <crosses herself, eyes to the heavens> I hope I've done enough. What did the roots look like when they rotted? Unfortunately I'm using several products that make the roots brown, so coloring isn't necessarily a key for me. I worry b/c I've moved the plants around causing damage and leaving some dead matter around. But the roots smell clean.For the one plant in your photos that was loosing leaves.. From the top, it kind of looked like you may have developed a root rot problem. Did your roots start turning brown and smelling bad? I know I have real issues when the reservoirs start getting above 68 degrees F. I lost a system over the summer due to root rot, looked just like that. Suffered through August using H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) to combat it, though once it cooled off, all of that kind of issue went away. I'm going to bite the bullet for next year and get 4 chillers, 1 for each of my systems.
It's (as of today) about the start of the fifth week of flower and in Unit 2 (the aerosystem) I've noticed some fan leaves beginning to yellow! If that OK or normal given my high nutrient levels & such? I'm afraid that whatever error I was making or disease is now coming to fruition in the second unit as it did in the first with grapefruit So I'm fretting. The amount of leaves yellowing are small, but after what happened to grapefruit I'm scared. Got my hand on my FloraShield (it's sort of like H2O2, it'll kill bacteria/fungus/root troubles & "clean" your roots - but I wonder if it would have some undesirable effect - It would kill any beneficial bacteria/fungi, but if you got root rot or whatever you might as well sterilize & start again (re-inoculate after the cleansing) I don't know why I'm not doing it... maybe this is the thing I'll look back on and regret. I'm so freaked about my roots, even the little hairy roots I thought was fungus for a brief, panic-y second when it was actually a sign of recovery (unless I was totally wrong - but the plants look healthy and the roots do not smell..) See? I'm a totally crazy over-protective parent, any advice, any at all would be so appreciated - I don't want to act too late.
As for the chillers, I say go for it, you won't be sorry - one bit of advice I'd give is if you want to not have to use AC, go for the larger chiller. I'm thinking of buying a second one, then I'll really be rolling. The thing with a chiller is, if you get just below the HP needed - you're shooting yourself in the foot as it can only drop the temperature of the res to a level that's lower, but still too high for you & it's a great expense - all the while running at full tilt expelling hot air all around, where as a more powerful unit would run less, emit less heat and handle the temperature you need - and it's versatile, you can use it to cool your rooms if you find you wish to do that. You can ask me about them should you decide on making the jump - I'm no expert, but I've done my shopping around.
11/8/09 Update - End of the third week of flowering & beginning of the fourth. This is the first day of flower for unit 3.
The flowering room after the new flower unit was added
In the flowering room: Buds have really started to turn up at this point. Major changes are I've moved the "duds" of group 3 plus the favorite Sugar Blossoms & Blueberry plant grown from seed into a flowering unit & placed into the flower room. All reservoirs were changed, Groups 1 & 2 were given the Aggressive Bloom General Hydroponics formula with Hygrozyme & Cal-Mag+ added.
Groups 1 & 2 canopy
The newly transplanted Group 3 flower unit was given the Transitional formula plus the Hygrozyme and the Cal-Mag+, the Transitional formula will be changed out in a week and replaced with Aggressive Bloom formula. Bioballs were added to the reservoir and it as given a 1/4 strength root drench of SubCulture M. I'm changing the reservoirs every 2 weeks, I hope that's enough, I wouldn't want to be wasteful changing it every week.
New Flower Unit
The new flowering unit contains Blue Apollos, Sugar Berrys, Sugar blossoms, Blueberrys & Apollo 11s - including the desired Blueberry & sugar Blossom mother plants, but since their cuttings took well and there are back up cuttings, I thought it best to flower them out.
Group 1 before buckets were rearranged & the second half removed
Groups 1 & 2 after both units moved to the wall
Some people have noticed how bushy Group 1 is - they were so big that I took quite a bit off the top - not the usual 1 - 2 node down cut, but further to control height. I anticipate a longer manicure time, but since it'll be my first, it shouldn't bother me too much as it's all so new. But I think they are giving me a very bush like, multiple "main" bud sites plant. Group 2 was topped also, but fimmed, not chopped several nodes down like Group 1 was and you can see all the long branches & multiple cola formations - part of that its down to genes as I hear C99 X A11 is long & branchy by nature. But you can see the difference in effect when you hack well down.
Group 2 before tie down
I've done quite a bit of tying of the plants in Groups 1 & 2 and continue to do so. Just to note - PPMs for flower room reservoirs generally start at 1300-1400 gross total (my tap water is about 90 PPM on it's own) and it decreases as time goes by and it gets topped off. Plants seem happy. The PPM of the Veg units are usually gross 1100. The PPMs in the Transitional formula units are 1250 gross. As always, remember to subtract about 100 PPM to get the net - just thought I'd throw that out there.
Group 2 after tie downs
C99 'pineapple' bud close-up in purple
Group 2 "clover field"
Since the buds have started to show, I've been overcome with taking pictures of them - they look like clover. Unit 2 especially looks like a clover field. I haven't been able to get a good enough picture to really show you this clover field effect, but I'm trying - it's down to the lighting & the camera at this point. I'm a sucker for flowers. Hopefully these pictures will give the impression.
C99 'pineapple' close-up
Group 2 Canopy
C99 'grapefruit' in a sorry state
In the dutch bucket system, as the Hydroton wasn't washed (my first and rather big newb mistake) the PH rises a bit faster (and a lot faster than the thoroughly washed & PH conditioned Hydroton of the mother system) so I've had to keep on top of that. But, in the aeroponic flowering systems, the PH actually tends to go down, but occasionally will rise. Just an observation, and this goes for the units in the flower room and in the vegetation room.
Groups 1 & 3, you can really see the C99 'grapefruit'
Just a thought: my woes with C99 'grapefruit' may be due in part to the debris in the system from the unwashed Hydroton. The old damaged growth on the plant is likely not going to recover - but the new growth remains green & it is still putting out new. Perhaps this is a phenotype that cannot take the PPM level her sisters can, we shall find out. My suspicion, and it's just my suspicion, is that b/c the Hydroton was unwashed it left this very clay-y residue which might have coated the roots and left them oxygen starved which in turn lead to dead roots, root rot = no nutrient uptake. But I think that's passed... the buds and new green growth are there although the plant itself is a sorry sight - I was tempted just to take her out of the system, but as it appears to have abated, I'm likely going to see this through to completion. Big thanks to poster Farmer Rich for sharing his experiences & pointing me in that direction, as I read more, it seemed the likeliest. I also think the FloraKleen may have whisked enough Hydroton debris away to enable the roots to somewhat re-establish themselves plus the Hygrozyme must have eaten away at enough dead matter to at lest keep my other plants in the system from falling vulnerable to the ever present pythium et al. I don't like to speak in so much conjecture, but it's all I got right now. It's interesting to note that after peeling away some Hydroton from poor 'grapefruit' I've noticed a whole lot of white fuzzy where before there was none - so I'm giving the girl a chance - I think she has come back from whatever it is that was ailing her, but the 'haul' from her harvest will be meager.
Group 1, 'grapefruit' is on the left
Groups 1 & 2 before the new flowering unit was added - 'grapefruit' is very visible at the end
11/8/09 Update - Veg Room
Before transplant & relocation
In the Vegetation Room: The second major event was the transplanting of mother clones into the dutch bucket system just put into the veg room. There are some other left over mother clone cuttings standing by should anything go wrong with these clones. The Mother Dutch Bucket System was fed with Hygrozyme, Cal-Mag+ and regular Vegetative growth formula - I hope it isn't too strong, but I'm treating the clones as if they are the age of the plants they were taken from, as they are not seedlings. The strongest specimens of each strain/sub-strain were taken and put into the dutch buckets from the seedling trays where they sat in rockwool on perlite. The dutch bucket mothers are: C99 'grapefruit', C99 'pineapple', C99 X BB 'bravo', Sugar Blossoms, Blueberry, and C99 X A11.
The permanent mother system
The flower unit still in the veg room holds all plants that were cloned as possible mothers for Apollo 11, Blue Apollo & Sugar Berry. They were either very alike, equal in quality & I'm waiting to see how they flower before choosing a mother or I haven't decided which qualities I would find more desirable in that strain for a mother ie. a shorter, thinner bushier plant or a taller, stronger one for example. This unit was also changed and given the Hygrozyme, Cal-Mag+ and General Hydroponics Vegetative Growth formula.
Last flower Unit left in the veg room
The only plant not added to the Dutch Bucket Mother System was C99 x BB 'echo' because the cutting had not rooted yet. I recut the cutting, split it down the middle & put it back into the aerocloner. Hopefully I can stimulate it to root again - it does have white root bumps. If it doesn't work out, I'm very happy having only C99 X BB 'bravo' which looks like a true cross between C99 and Blueberry vs 'echo' which is a big, strong plant with lots of bud sites, but looks as if it inherited more C99 than Blueberry as it looks very similar to the C99 X A11 mother. I'll try my best to preserve C99 X BB 'echo's genetics as much as I can, I'd even go so far as to try to re-veg the plant if it came down to it as my focus now is genetics - not this particular harvest. This harvest is a nice bonus & informational. Main goal is the perpetual system.
Veg Room after changes as it is now
11/8/09 Update - Unit 2 Pics: C99 X BB 'bravo', C99 x BB 'echo', C99 x A11
As a first time grower, I'm in awe of the beauty and the thrill of the plants coming into bloom so I'm sure these pictures are quite redundant in some ways - but not totally useless at all. Here you can really get a sense of the different phenotypes & characters of the strains I got going here.
Just a note about what you're looking at with the Group 2 pictures: I took a lot of shots of them as they are the most accessible but if you want a layout - those spinachy stalks in the left hand back are C99 X BB 'bravo' - directly in front of that and leaning over towards Group 1 is C99 X BB 'echo' who looks very much like the plant that really dominates the whole of Group 2 which is my C99 x A11 'alpha' - when you look from left and even across the center into the Blueberry crosses territory - that canopy, those branches are all being flung out largely by that one plant. This is observable in all pictures taken head on of Unit 2, so you can go back to those pictures to see what I mean and where certain plants are.
C99 x BB 'bravo'
This particular plant from this strain, to me, shows the more indica, blueberry, genes of the two (bravo & echo) Notice her dark greenery & the leafy abundance around her buds (hash, ahoy!) ow, he's beautiful (I know this plant's a 'he' despite being technically female - & he's definitely the more macho of the two. 'Bravo's unique looking.
Here is 'bravo':
Three stalks of 'bravo'
Leaves & Buds
Stalk & flower cluster, notice the abundance of dark leaves
C99 X BB 'echo'
This specimen of the Cinderella Blueberry cross is so similar looking to my C99 Apollo 11 cross, I'd have thought I accidentally mislabeled the strain (I know I didn't, I was very careful) He's big & branchy, though not as large as his brother 'bravo' I don't think. He also has many bud sites, more than his brother I think. He responded well to training via breaking & redirecting growth, so he's strong. He tends towards the more C99/sativa side of the family it seems. He's a fine plant & I am working hard to preserve a clone of him, initially taken on somewhat of a lark, it may prove too similar to C99 X A11or not enough of a yielder compared to 'bravo' to be worth keeping if I can revive it at all, we shall see.
Some echo branches
Looking down a long stalk of echo
Echo bud close-up
Echo view from the top down
C99 X A11 'alpha'
What can I say about this plant that the pictures don't? She's a veritable monster, she takes up 75% of the unit space & has multiple bud sites. Cannot wait to see what happens with this one, she's all arms, it's true what Joey Weed said, she looks like she'd be great for SCROG. I love the prettiness of it all, I have a ton of picture of her.
C99 X A11 Canopy tied
She's a huge plant
Close-up of bud frond
Bud & greenery jungle
Any&All posts are fictional.
All pictures posted are available on the internet.
Discussions I am involved in are hypothetical,
and should not constitute advice in that are deemed illegal.
I'm simply a LURKER
Beginning of fifth week of flower for Groups 1 & 2
Beginning of second week of flower for Flower Unit 3
Beginning of the first Week of Flower for Flower Unit 4
Before Unit 4 was added
Flower Room After Unit Four Added
Major changes this week:
Flower Unit 4
The last flower unit has been transferred into the flower room. This is the unit that contains the last three strains to be cut & chosen - Blue Apollo, Apollo 11 & Sugar Berry. Extra cuttings for back up mothers were taken (2 from each plant) before hand.
Another major change - I've decided to add FloraShield as a mainstay in all reservoir - those yellow leaves got me worried. It's like H2O2. In Groups 1 & 2 I drained the reservoir and ran FloraShield & water at the recommended dilution (changed & cleaned all the part of the 2 systems) for the recommended time (1-2 hours, I did a little over 2) Just incase I am dealing with a case of root rot. The plants in the dutch buckets are quite root bound which has caused drainage problems & overflow & I've mentioned the unwashed Hydroton before, I just don't see why I'd take the chance especially as I observed yellowing leaves starting on my second unit - that's what did it for me. I can't have this spread around the whole room. The only thing I sacrifice is the beneficial bacteria/organisms & I guess if they had established themselves, I wouldn't be having this problem, so my choice was clear.
As there isn't much to tell now, I'm mostly looking toward the future. My worries are so far: when to add the Dry KoolBloom (Ripen)? Shall I do it for 3 weeks prior to harvest? 2 or only 1? I hear that stressing w/products like that can cause hermaphrodites, but vastly increase bud size so I'll do a little experimenting. As I'm using the aggressive bloom strength formula, might as well go the whole 9.
Units 1 & 3
Another worry is circulation, budrot. I'm thinking of adding several fans & really blow those plants around - humidity has been good, 47% last I checked. But, The vegetation is dense & the plant are stacked on top of each other. I've ordered more fans to mount on the walls just to rattle each leaf & stalk. I've also cut the lower third
side stems & leaves off of the plants in units 3 & 4.
Units 2 & 4
I've taken readings with my Lux meter above the canopies of all my flower units - they range at the darkest points 50,000 Lux - to the brightest being 600,000 Lux. I plan on addressing the issue of the plants getting the lesser amount of light by adding perhaps an LED over them as it worked for my Flower Unit 3. It doesn't jump the Lux reading - LEDs give lower readings, but due to their more specific spectrum, give more useable light with the added benefit of using blue light to keep the stretch down.
One observation - the plants in Groups 1 & 2 are low odor strains, but are finally starting to show odor now if you go up to them - they smell sweet. Some smell like candy, I put that up to the Pineapple!Rush FloraNectar sweetener I'm using, just my guess.
End of fourth week, beginning of fifth week of flower Unit 2 pics, canopy, colas, buds:
Bud Canopy (Unit 2):
Cola (Unit 2):
Canopy & Colas Unit 2 (C99 X BB 'bravo' featured prominently center)
C99 X BB 'bravo' Colas close-up
C99 X A11 Canopy
Cola C99 X A11
C99 X A11 Canopy:
Bud Chain (C99 X A11):
Bud 'arm' (C99 X A11):
Got some close up pics of trichomes to show everyone just for laughs - took them with the Eyeclops. Most are at 200X magnification and a few are 400X. I took a little bud off C99 X A11 for observation (which was dutifully chopped, dried and smoked by those who shall remain nameless - they got all happy, giggly & chatty, proclaiming it "definitely good shit" - happily when questioned they confirmed hat the seedmakers said it would do - a head/psychedelic high with euphoria but also a decent light body high, it's more than I expected given the small quantity, early harvest & knowledge of their smoking habits, so hooray!)
All comments and observation are welcome & wanted as I'm totally new to reading trichomes. As it is 5 weeks, I'm reading them as all clear. Perhaps someone with more experience can let me know if I'm right. I'm using UVB and I know that often accelerates trich maturation & degradation, so perhaps the trichs really are part cloudy.
When taking pictures of the trichs, you can often only get a few into focus as they are often on a curved surface. I am considering only the ones in clear focus for accuracy.
Even though in the pictures there appears to be cloudy heads, I think that is b/c they are out of focus or in front of other objects that make them appear coudy - with this picture at the bottom it even looks like there are 2 broken amber heads, but I doubt that. I don't know, first grow and all, but I think early week 5 is too early to see anything but clear heads. Correct me if I'm wrong. And if any of you old timers have any tricks to share regarding how to tell when plants are indeed cloudy, don't be afraid to shout.
Clones of the last remaining strains taken
Second set of clones (new clones) taken in front - older clones in back tray
Regarding this last crop of mother plant cuttings I kept 4 Apollo 11's, 2 Blue Apollos and 2 Sugar Berrys. At first glance, the Sugar Berrys are twins, however, I have noticed Sugar Berry 'hotel' is taller & sparser than Sugar Berry 'india' which is a little less tall, but much bushier. I think 'india' will win out in the end and become a permanent mother.
With Blue Apollo we have 2 plants very much alike, again one taller than the other, but still bushy which is 'bravo'. The other is slightly smaller & less thick branched but is very bushy all around, 'echo'. What might throw this to 'bravo' though is while it is not as bushy as 'echo' - it has a very large, circular, bushy canopy that I can imagine would produce many large buds.
I kept 4 potential mothers for Apollo 11 b/c I think she's going to be a real standout. As of now, 'golf' is the clear front runner - she's by far the bushiest & decently tall. 'delta' is the tallest, fairly bushy itself and like most of the taller ones is sturdy. Then comes 'echo' and 'bravo' - they are both smaller but very bushy, 'echo' being a little more so. I have faith in the strain so I'm willing to devote the time & the space to find out which is best. In the other cases - the choices were very clear and luckily are bearing themselves out in the flower room now.
New Veg Room Set-up, permanent set-up still in progress
Another thing: I've got my mothers up and running in the dutch bucket mother system in the veg room. The final mothers, I took one of each clone - one I put in rockwool and one I put directly into the Hydroton, bare roots. It looks like they're doing fine. Plus I have The other clone in rockwool & 2 more cuttings in the cloner unit for backup should it not work. The clones I had taken earlier & rooted first in rockwool & placed in Hydroton are doing great & growing. Regarding the clones I took bare rooted & placed directly into hydroton, first off I was very gently, secondly they had a lot of roots. I just held the plant up where I wanted it & rolled the hydroton balls under & through the roots and gently around them, trying to leave not much space to collapse. Then I took the emitter and watered the area where the roots were. I then just left them with the others, it's been 3 days & they haven't died so I'm optimistic.
Permanent mother plant system in veg room
I'm concentrating on establishing my mothers. I've topped the established plants just above the third node on each in the hopes of getting a bushy, short plant that will quickly provide cuttings for the perpetual harvest system.
Anyway another piece of good news - my little C99 X BB 'echo' cutting has rooted! I'm going to be very careful with him and let him sprout a few more before I o putting him into rockwool as I only have the one. Even thought I was successful with the other mothers, transplanting them with bare roots, I only have the one and it is such a different pheno than it's brother 'bravo'
One last try on the yellowing leaves situation: Normal N loss during flower, disease or both?
*All pictures are of the C99 'grapefruit' plant on two particular bud sections:
C99 'grapefruit' bud, interveinal chlorosis, chlorotic leaves - this is typical of all the branches on this plant.
I had mentioned before that some leaves were yellowing - nearly all of C99 'grapefruit's and quite a few of C99 'pineapple' - with the two smaller plants in group 1 showing absolutely no signs of this disorder whatsoever despite them being farther from the lights. I cannot say for sure - but it is useful to note that C99 'grapefruit' and C99 'pineapple' are much larger than their two sisters, causing problems due to being heavily root bound - also these two plants reside in the uncleaned Hydroton where as the other two are in cleaned Hydtoton. This leads me to conclude that the dying from the inside of the branch to the outside is a sign of some form of root rot or damage, hence the FloraShield cleansing and it's addition to the system as a regular staple.
Same bud shot and leaves but shown in perspective with the rest of 'grapefruit'
What has me most worried now is the progression of yellow fan leaves amongst the larger plants in Unit 2. It started with C99 X BB 'bravo' & appears to be showing up in C99 X A11 'alpha.' Now, these plants could have caught whatever it is making the sick plants in unit 1 ill, but then why haven't the others in the same units gotten ill as well? This is only occurring amongst the largest plants in each unit. Perhaps it's due to an inadequate amount of root space. I really do not know. It's also worth mentioning that it is later in flower (middle of week 5) so perhaps this is a normal loss of N as I am using an Aggressive Bloom formula. I've heard it can happen. I wonder though. And it must be said - the plants are putting out nice buds.
A different grapefruit bud close up with more pronounced chlorosis - the tips are curled and burnt on some sections.
Here are the symptoms one last time. It begins on the larger fan leaves - they turn bright yellow and can stay that way for a while. When they are fully yellow their veins and stems take on a purple color although there is purpleness present in the healthy plants too. In the final phases, the leaves dry, turning brown along the edges and curling upwards at the tips and along the edges. The leaves to go last are the ones closest to the ends/buds. I realize that I may have to harvest early if this situation progresses and the plant starts to die - especially the 'grapefruit' plant.
Here is a picture of a leaf on grapefruit in mid-chlorosis
As I read more, maybe I'm having a little hysteria (in the case of unit 2 at least) over what naturally happens - nitrogen loss during flower. Perhaps that is also the case with Unit 1 to a degree, but I have to think it got too bare too soon, at least 'grapefruit' did. I know C99 loves Mg, but I am supplementing, it couldn't be lacking Mg save for lockout, which worries me. I don't know. I'm showing this to show what the problem looks like on the plant - this is the best illustration of the problem thus far, it's all there in a nutshell.
Same 'grapefruit' leaf as the first plant pictures above but in close-up. Notice the complete yellowness, the curled up brown edges.
Unit 2, I'm thinking might be experiencing a natural yellowing during flower. The yellowing is primarily large fan leaves, most of the growth remains dark and lush. Not like the bare branches of the C99 'grapefruit' plant. Any ideas are welcome as I'm stumped. I am fairly certain that the two large plants in Unit 1 have problems due to complications that I'm not entirely sure what they are, but that have left them with diminished functioning root mass. There will be a 'root autopsy' which I will post after harvest if this isn't figured out to a near certainty.
Here are some details on what most of these yellow leaves look like.
Here's a picture of a progression from mottled green to yellow to yellow with brown fringed tips:
Close up of typical yellow leaf:
This leaf has gone beyond any green remaining in it's veins & is totally yellow. Notice the brown tips and the purple stem.
I tend to start losing water leaves during flower that look similar to your pics. Don\'t sweat it too much, just keep an eye on the sugar leaves on the buds.. I\'ve also found this is strain dependent too.. I have one that loses leaves quickly, but always produces.. This one, generally around week 4 it starts yellowing and less the buds, they\'re all about gone by harvest.
You say this is your first grow? You did a lot of homework and bought/built a lot of equipment.
Some thoughts your mothers.. What I do is keep mine in soil-less mix in #2 containers and regenerate them when necessary. This allows me to use rooted clones from my clone bucket in either system (aeroponic or mix) without having to screw with rockwool. The other advantage is I can totally tear down and clean the veg system between cycles without impacting any mother plants.
That\'s quite the jungle you have in flower!!! I noticed in some earlier pics you were skipping plant sites in the flower system. Was this by plan? You must have a fairly large light footprint with 4 systems. I designed mine based on a HPS lighting foot print of 4\' x 10\', which gave me enough room for a 6 x 3 plant grid on 15\" centers, hence the 3 individual 2 x 3 systems.
My First Grow - http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/...l-cabinet.html
Second try - http://boards.cannabis.com/closet-ca...-2nd-grow.html
Workin' on being a green ..
Yes I did do my homework! I researched for about 6 months and I built all the systems you see w/specs provided by StinkBud and a hydro book for the dutch bucket system. That part wasn't that hard & was fun, building the PVC structures & all. The every other thing, I moved the plants in group 1 to optimize light as it's moveable. The others in the aero-units was at first less by design - Unit 2 had the males pulled and units 3 & 4 were placed that way prior to addition to the moving into the flower room.
I think I see what you're saying about the mother plants - crazily enough those plants I rooted by hand - just took from the aerocloner & put them into the Hydroton carefully are alive! Every last one! Now I have successfully regenerated a cutting of C99 X BB 'echo' that had not taken before so I only have the one. Now I'm scared, despite the success I've had with the others & think I may put it into rockwool first even though I'd rather just put it right into the system.
I got the Magnum xxxl reflector which should give me a 5' X 5' foot print. My plant systems in the final set up will be 4 units 4' X 8' and a little over, I'm guessing.
You're right about the jungle part - I'll be checking out your journals when I get a chance to crawl out sometime!