What? they're Bad with Co2?

Because you can't isolate the light/heat with an air-cooled hood or cooltube, which means you need to have your ventilation system running more often, which will suck out the co2 along with the heat, defeating the purpose. Well, I guess theoretically you *could* build one huge honking 'cooltube' for that T5 system, but it'd be enormous, and way difficult.

__________________
"Before you consider one an enemy, first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, if he *is* an enemy, you're a mile ahead, and you have his shoes."

Hi guys...Im glad to see that everyone has taken a liking to this thread...I am using the grow T5 not the aquarium t5...better reflection... I can see why everyone thinks these plants arent for real...the growth from this light is incredible I do admit!! For that aexact reason is why I satrted this thread...Believe me I would tell my buddy everyday that his new light sucked and that my HPS were gonna be a better yield...we ended getting about the same yield and in my opinion his plants looked a lo nicer...So I am posting my grow step by step so that all can see...

My plants are forming a hedge which is pretty hard to be penetrated by light...We chopped a ton of leaves yesterday to open the plants up a bit...Im sure they will filll in nice...Im not to worried about the bottow dwellers anyway...I will be putting mylar on the walls next grow...Im sure that will help a little!

Im not to sure on the CO2 thing....these light dont emit that much heat where the extraction fan is on all day..im sure I could turn the fans off while running co2...

To all the thread readers...feel free to put me to the test...I will answer any question or doubt you might have about these plants!!

Pass me the lighter my Dear Watson!!

Today's Pics

Attached Images

	100_1072.JPG (1.61 MB, 48 views)
	100_1071.JPG (1.52 MB, 46 views)
	100_1070.JPG (1.69 MB, 182 views)
	100_1069.JPG (1.66 MB, 163 views)

I think you'd find those lights put out a lot more heat than you think they do. They seem cool(er) because the heat is generated over a much larger area, whereas with HID lights it comes from a very small area. They might even generate MORE heat than an HID, I don't know. They use more power (compared to a 400-watt HID light), and generate less light, so that reduced efficiency and extra power usage is being turned into *something*. If it's not light, and it's not matter, then what else could it be but heat?

I bet if you sealed up your box tight, and turned off all ventilation, and turned on the light, and did the same thing with a 400-watt HPS light, and used the same starting temperature in both scenarios, that after an hour of the lights being on, the temperature in the box would be comparable. If it's not, then either the laws of physics are being violated, or that energy usage is being turned into something other than light or heat...and I don't know what that could be. If it's matter, then the lights would gain mass over time, and I don't think that happens. Sooo....

__________________
"Before you consider one an enemy, first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, if he *is* an enemy, you're a mile ahead, and you have his shoes."

That sounds deep and Im stoned...sounds like your right though...Id like to test that...

Do not get confused mate here. Do not compare the efficiency of 2 different systems by subtracting their wattage difference to heat. Other reactions needs to be done in actual-physical level on each lamp type. The energy is used in totally different principles, so any attempt to compare is by definition wrong. Not only light, heat and matter can be present on the equation, as you say.
Fluoro-atoms release light photons when their electrons become excited. In High Intensity Discharge lamps, light is produced by passing a current through a metal vapor. So we talk about different mechanisms here, with different & uncomperable efficiencies.

-HPS produces more heat, more lumens and dirty light.
-T5HO produces less heat, less lumens (yet) and quality light.

you go boy!!

nice setup tic, ur plants need more light tho. they seem a light droopy, or maybe its just me.

i think they look a little droopy due to the fact that we cut back a lot of leaves last night...kinda shocked a little bit...but they are bouncing back!!

Here's a link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics

Basically, in this context, imagine two exactly identical boxes, completely sealed and 100 percent insulated, except for their power cables. One power cable is 432W and goes into one box. The other power cable is 400W and goes into the other box. Neither box is transforming their respective energy inputs into kinetic energy (e.g., motion, spinning blades, moving turbines, whatever).

The laws of thermodynamics dictate that the 432W box will get hotter, no ifs ands or buts about it. Read the Wiki for an overview of the laws of thermodynamics, or search Wiki for 'Conservation of Energy'.

Now, if that's not the case with a 400-watt HPS light as compared to a 432watt (or whatever) Teklight -- if the heat output isn't greater -- then there must be a reason for that to be so that does not violate the laws of thermodynamics, especially the law of Conservation of Energy, which to date has been deemed irrefutable. The only way I can think of how that could be is if the Teklights have significantly more moving parts than HPS lights (moving parts would transform some of the incoming energy into kinetic energy, rather than light or heat -- small fans for example, do they have fans in them?). That would also explain why they generate less light for more energy - some energy would be diverted into kinetic energy. Otherwise, I have no explanation if they are, in fact, cooler.

__________________
"Before you consider one an enemy, first walk a mile in his shoes. Then, if he *is* an enemy, you're a mile ahead, and you have his shoes."

Fluorescent tubes operate on a completely different principle from the metal halide systems. Whereas the metal halide system relies on light emission from thermal characteristics, the fluorescent system operates through the principles of electron flow and photo-phosphorescence.

To put it in simple words, a metal halide system obey blindly the Kelvin-Planck Statement (systems have a tendency to increase their entropy - heat transformation content). It is a very dirty IR emitter because its principle of operation relies in the increase of entropy itself thus the production of heat.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics

The Fluorescents tube vacuum is evacuated (only a small amount of vaporized mercury is added to the tube and an argon stabilizer). That allows the free flow of electrons in vacuum (if you prefer the KINETIK energy of electrons inside a minimum resistive medium - less friction).
Heat in the fluorescent system is a byproduct of two processes:
1. It is produced by the ballasts through the flow of current in its resistive transformers capacitors and other components.
3. Energy is also lost when the fast moving electrons colide with the mercury vapor atoms and the stabilizer. That way, the electrical flow is downgraded to atomic kinetik energy (if you prefer the gentle heat that is emitted from the tubes).

Energy is, also, lost due to Electromagnetic fields that escape from the ballast in the 3D space around. (a factor of the ballasts efficiency)
A complex electronic system with various energy transformations cannot be compared by definition with a dedicated heat production machine (if you prefer, experiment to prove the Kelvin-Planck Statement) like the metal halide systems.

So, back to post #157: Not only light, heat and matter can be present on the equation, as you say!

Shit who needs a university... I got a PHD in pot growing lol

get on with your badself madk

I have to disagree with jamstigator, because if what you said was true than you couldn't hang your fluorescents within inches of plants (which you can.)

Run your fans and your CO2 system on a timer so the fans turn off (except for an oscillating) when the CO2 Turns on, I somehow highly doubt you'll have significant heat problems from turning the vents off for an hour a day to give your plants CO2.

Lookin' good Tico! Can't wait to see how much bud you get.

Quick blip in here, CO2 may work, but with a few considerations, the CO2 is most efficient when in the higher temps, above 95F is nice, the needed level of photo synthesis from using T5's is questionable on weather there is enough to make an efficient use of the CO2. There is an argument on weather or not even a 400W HPS can generate enough photo synthesis in the plant to make the use worth the attempt. When you get to using 600w and 1K, the idea is if your not using CO2 then you are just wasting light productivity.
Well, on another note, the dialog on wattage use and heat put is nice and very informed, and let me throw a question or two out there. Jam I like you and am just stirring the waters a little. It seems like many other factors besides wattage can contribute to heat and out put, for instance, a 1K HPS and a 1K MH are going to use the same wattage, but will have a significant difference in heat output. Also in the area of wattage usage, the electronic balase verses a coil based one will perform with the same wattage, but the electronic/digital will be able to consume less energy because of the efficiency of the ballasts ability to generate and use power in the various ways. Just some food for thought.

Now on to the case at hand, as I pulled in some vanilla smoke threw a cob pipe this morning while sitting upon my thrown I pondered the facts of this compelling case and attempted to weigh out both sides of the argument and as I did that, Like a light bulb a thought hit me. We may have a motive, being that the defendant is a covert salesmen for the product in question, but what would be the method in which he is attempted to bamboozle and mislead the jury? I mean, does he take all the plants out every other day and place them in another area? Under an HPS? Wouldn't they out grow the T5 set up and have to be trained. Does he move the arrow cloner for each picture? Seems like quite allot of work IMO.
Well, perhaps the prosecution will make a rebuttal and shed light on these facts in question.
Adieu

__________________
"If what shone afar so grand,
Turn to nothing in thy hand,
On again; the virtue lies
In struggle, not the prize."--R. M. Milnes.
Hugh Miller said the only school in which he was properly taught
was "that world-wide school in which toil and hardship are the
severe but noble teachers."

T5's are also used to light up sound stages as well for movie makeing.

So it would be a good light to use for the set since the movie company already has them

OK well if he is lying he has me bought top reasons why!!!!

1. I previously asked him if he thought the results he was getting was due to the lights he replied "no i think its due to the nutrients i use"
2. someone asked him if the lights they found was the same as his but it wasnt from the same place and tico said those are the same thing and told him to get it so unless he fabricates these lights he didnt care where the person got them from
3. also if you think hps works better for you then use it no one is forcing no one to use ne thing

just my 2 cents at least

Yeah I know! He never once said "YOU GUYS SHOULD TRY IT OUT!" If anything it's just a mild plug of a new type of grow light he was getting great results with. You guys are fucking paranoid, leave the brotha the fuck alone!

Guess who's back? Back again. Pass That's back, tell a friend...

Tico, where did you get the lights?

Specialitylights.com or your friend?

It seems that most people overlooked when tico posted the "FUCK OFF PASS THAT SHIT" pics. It was a clever way to avoid the challenge. If you go back and read the specific request I made, you will see that tico DID NOT follow through.

Go Tico

i got mine from specialty lights...might not have met your requests but im sure people got a kick out of it!! Yo im putting no gun to anyone's head...ea person is free to buy or not buy what the please...this light just so happens to wk very well for me...and on a personal note, all this bickering about these plants not being for real just makes me feel better with my grow because to tell you the truth I was still weary of its results... The fact that everyone keeps thinking im using some other light just tells me that my plants look just as good or even better than they were under a HPS !! Like I said in my past posts...I dont have to prove anything to anyone...you believe what you wanna believe!!

HERE BUDDY...FIRST A WHOLE LEAF THEN A PARTIAL SECONDS LATER!!

Attached Images

	100_1074.JPG (1.10 MB, 140 views)
	100_1075.JPG (768.7 KB, 118 views)

All this bickering. What do you want tico to do, throw his lights out and give up. I thought this site was for sharing our same passion for the hobby, not critisizing eachother. Hell i use flourecents, Lets here all the trash about how crappy they are compared to hps & such. If the t5's are working for you then have all the fun you want with them tico. I thought your setup was pretty neat. The only other thing i can say is ignore all energy but positive energy, cause all the arguing just keeps fueling the fire.

I got your back TICO you helped me out with some info so your ok in my book.

I think the bickering makes this thread fun!! I especially like to hear people talk about the fact that these plants are all hype!! je je je Bring it on is all I have to say!!