Greetings & Thank You For Visiting This Thread

31/05/07 marked the day that a flood & drain system with a sum of 32 x ''20-day-old'' Dunk (G13) and AK47 clones arrive in the flowering room.

The flood & drain system consists of 1* 60L+ reservoir and 2* trays that are seated in an NFT fashion.

There are 32 net pots, 16 on each tray. Each net pot is filled with Washed clay medium.

On each tray there is an air line hose attached to a pump. These hoses deliver oxygen to the water which floods the top trays. The air bubbles are constantly released beneath the net pots.

The reservoir has a single submersed water-pump that feeds both trays by use of various connectors and pipe fittings. There is also an air stone situated near the pump.

That is the basic setup of the flood and drain system. i won't go into the Manufacturers names unless asked specifically.

There is a single 600W HPS with an Adjust'a'Wing shade lighting the setup, but there are other lights in the space which totals around 3kW of HPS lighting on 12/12.

The room's air conditioning consists of; a constantly open window covered with a blackout curain, 2* 16" oscillating fans, and a 8" box fan terminated with a pretty long 8" carbon filter (both at ceiling height and horizontal) and ducted to a chimeny. With 3kW of light during the daytime the temperature doesn't exceed 27C. But back to the flood & drain specifics.

I will add better quality photos as time goes on, but for now you will be able to get an idea of the setup with the poor quality pic taken with my webcam below.

Thanks for reading!!

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Greetings

The submersed pump is set to deliver a flood 5 times per day. At the moment the timer is switiching every 4 hours or there about. The duration of the flood is currently 15 minutes.

All Nurtient Products are from Advanced Nutrients

In the tank is around 60L of pH balanced water (6.0-6.2). To this I added enough Mother Earth Bloom to raise the EC to 0.8-1.0. Voodoo Juice, Barricade and Liquid CarboLoad were then added in mild strength. I checked the pH again and added a little more pH down then did a final check on the EC which was giving around 0.9.

The clones were potted in small cubes with the roots just showing out of all of them. Voodoo Juice should encourage rapid root formation over the next few days. Barricade is simply silicon which should asist with stem and branch strength and add resiliance to some pests. While CarboLoad is something I just tend to use a lot of without really knowing what its actually doin, but I believe it does something... maybe providing some kind of energy?

The reason for starting with a mild solution is because previous experience has tought me that hydro style growing can cause changes in a plant to occur far quicker than in soil. It is better to add elements and compounds to a solution slowly to avoid loss. Also, these clones are quite slender even though they are well rooted. I just don't think they were ready for EC1.2 immediately.

Other products I will be adding at a later stage will be Fulvic F1, Humic H2, Sensi Bloom A&B then Big Bud and Overdrive at the right stages.

Thanks for reading.

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Barricade is Potassium Silicate.. Correction on the terminology used!!!

Greetings

Today is actually day two. I didn't add anything to the reservoir besides a splash of pH down. The reading before adding was around 6.4, so i brought it back to 6.0.

For the rest of week 1 I will probably continue to add pH down and top off with Mother Earth Bloom if necessary. Standby for daily reports!!!

Thanks for reading

any co2 supplementation

Greetings readers. Thanks for dropping a comment hows.your.roof...

No there isn't CO2 set up in the garden.

Today the sun was out and the inside temperature rose to 30C. I go back on what I earlier said about the 27C thing. That just shows that anything can occur when one is least expecting it and it is crucial to monitor everything as closely as possible.

As for CO2, it has been on my mind for a while. Once I see what the yeild of a set up like this brings forth I will then see about replacing the whole garden with flood and drain. At that point I will be installing new features and a CO2 injection system will probably be near the top of the list. I will then be able to compare differences between CO2 and no CO2 using the same kind of methods.

So, to drop my temperature I opened the door to the garden and left it with a blanket hanging over the door way. Because the Extractor is pulling air all the time at an adequate rate, the temperature soon dropped back to 27C and stabilized with the door open. The door will be closed in time for the night cycle.

I checked the pH and it was around 6.15 so I didn't make any ammendments as this reading was just in range. I checked the EC and it was reading 1.0-1.2. This shows that the balance of the mixture of nutes in the reservoir is being tipped because the plants are feeding and taking what they want.

I will make any changes tomorrow. Measurements are quite ok in my opinion, but time will tell if I'm making the right decissions.

I also had to prop-up my reservoir at one end as it seemed the top trays were on a slant preventing the end cubes from becoming moistented. To add, I've increased the feeding from 5 to 6 times per day as the cubes were appearing a little too dry by the time the next flood started. As far as I'm aware, all is well and the next few days will determine how I'm getting on.

Here are a couple of better quality images taken today.

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For anyone interested in the air supply beneath the pots then this is for you.

I was undecided until the very last minute as to what method of flood and drain I was going to use.

I was goin to copy the method used in a DVD that I saw. Top Quality Grow DVD of something, not 100% on the name.

With that method the top trays would have been filled with washed clay and the clones would have been positioned without pots; directly in the clay.

The air line was to supply oxygen from beneath.

I was considering a continual flood. The air supply would be very important with a continual flood.

With the net pots then, I have stuck to the same method but used less grow medium, much less infact. Anyone worried about waste from soil pots will be better off if they can yeild the same using hydro methods. I will still be able to continual flood as the pots sit on the airline which is pierced to allow bubbles to flow directly below the pots.

I purchased 5m of this hose/airline and used 2.5m on each tray.

2nd and 3rd opinions reveal that the clones have already started growing and straightening up. I removed one of the cubes from the pots and saw that a root structure was approaching 2cm from the cube in just over 2 days.

I will add images of the roots soon before the first week is up. I'm hopeful that roots will be visible outside the pots by the end of the 10th day of bloom.

Keep tuned in & thanks for reading this thread.

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I like the grow reports. Keep them coming. I did it in my day.
Unless you can close up your room and use A/C and a very good vent system. It's hard to do c02. Control everthing.

Peace.

Greetings readers. Thanks for dropping a comment LOC NAR on probation.

I would like to seal the room totally and install air conditioning. I'm eager to have full control over everything. It's the only way. But when one has full control they have to concentrate on what is going on and understand whats happening. I feel I'm ready to take full control pretty soon. The results of this current op will determine how confident I will be in around 50-60days time.emperature

Ok, to the diary. I'm having temperature problems. As the weather changes and we approach the summer months I'm finding that 3kW of lighting is causing my inside temperature to reach 33C and beyond. I have had successful crops with soaring temperatures in the past, but I don't ever recall having such high temps so early in the year. I suspect that by mid July my garden will be in the early 40s.

I checked my pH and EC as normal today. The pH was above 7 and the EC was around 0.8 (though I cannot fully recall the EC). I decided to change the solution instead of wasting pH down. This might have been a bad idea.

I partially flushed the reservoir then topped off with around 40L of tap water. The flood pump was turned off to ensure a flood didn't occur while I was doin mainenance.

To the reservoir I added 1/3rd doses of H2 and F1 (Humic and Fulvic Acid), I added mild dosages of Barricade and CarboLoad. I then brought the EC up to 1.0-1.2 with Mother Earth Bloom then pH'd at 5.5.

I chose to pH at around 5.5 because so far the pH has risen as time has gone on. I'm hoping that I might get an extra day before I have to make ammendments in the reservoir. This might not be all good, but my changes are not over dramatic and I should be able to see problems occur quite quickly. I'm sticking to mild feed to enable me to make errors.

I'm at a stage where I'm wishing I was in soil as it's more straight forward. But I'm kinda expectant of 1-2 Oz per plant at the same time.

Feel free to indicate a balls-up on the horizon readers. This is my first go and I'm open to ideas.

No pics till the start of week 2. Thanks for reading...

I just harvested my very first grow ever. I first started my plants in soil, and had so much trouble, that after about 2 weeks I washed off the roots and put them in a hydro system i bought. I got about 1.5 OZ average per plant. I am sure you can do better then I did. The Buds are Amazing though.

I will be watching your grow closely.

You say you are using carbo load.The carbo load is to give the plants more carbohydrates in the flowering cycle when the plant uses up stored carbo.this puts weigh on the bud{bigger buds}.I would save the carbo load till the flowering cycle.You need to suport your trays so when the plants get bigger they dont fall in the res.But I think you are doing great,Keep it up Peace

Hello readers,

Thanks for the vote of confidence Chabnoc. for a 1st grow you did really well with that yeild. how big/tall/wide were the finished plants and how long did you veg them for?

Crazywill, thanks for dropping a comment. I'm already in the bloom phase if that makes a difference. I chose not to veg these clones at all so I put them straight in on 12/12. (they were veged/rooted for 2weeks before I obtained them)... The bud sights haven't developed yet, are you suggesting I should wait until buds are visible before using carbo load? It isn't that expensive and I don't mind using it all the way through if it will make a positive difference. It is also a dang good job you mentioned the weight of the top trays. I didn't consider the fact that fully grown plants might cause the reservoir to tip over. I'll examine the set-up and make ammendment to ensure that I don't flood the room in a few weeks from now.

Thanks for posting people.

I will update progress a little later on as I'm still in bed and my lights are just about to pop on.

Hello readers. I'm a day late again with my update. Too much smoking and drinking and falling about the place; over the limit in every respect.

The pH was high again. Just above 7.0 was the reading I got for day 5. I wondered if the meter was reading correctly so I re-calibrated it with buffers 4 and 7 and the end reading was the same. The EC was 1.0. The only ammendment was to pH down the reservoir.

I seem to be doing a lot of pH downing, can anyone concur that this is supposed to be happening please? I guess that the plants are absorbing what they want food wise but I'm stumpt as to why the pH keeps rising daily by more than 1unit. There must be a link, I need confirmation.

I'm not 100% sure if what I'm doing is correct. But all has been well up to now and the plants havent indicated signs of suffering. I will continue close observation and inform you all about any slight problems with additional pics. One thing I must say before I begin my day, there are whitefly in the room. I haven't insecticided. They came in on some mothers which have since entered their 3rd week in bloom. Today I will attempt to control the pests with an organic controller. I won't apply the chemicals untill probably 1 hour before the lights go out tonight. It will probably take that amount of time to apply the spray. Standby for updates.

Thanks for reading.

Hello again. Thanks for dropping by to keep up to date with my first ebb&flow/ flood and drain attempt.

So we're now into day 6 of bloom. The weather hasn't helped at all with regard to soaring daytime temperatures. It's to be expected really at this time of year. I was hopeful that the approaching summer wouldn't affect my efforts but I'm having trouble contending with nature.

If things get very much out of hand then I will have to reverse the cycle with 24hrs darkness in order to have my lights on during the night. That will be a last measure of course.

I checked the pH and EC levels as seems to be normal routine. The pH had risen to around 6.4 from a low 5.5 that I left it at yesterday. Strange!!! Some feedback from you readers with regard to rising pH levels would be appreciated. Is it normal?

I topped off the reservoir with around 11L of pH5.5 tap water which brought the reservoir back within the boundary of 5.5-6.2 pH.

The EC was 1.2. A little higher than I left it the previous day but within the boundaries for the first week of bloom. I see how over fertilization problems can occur with hydro if not closely monitored.

I would like to invest in an auto pH balancing system since that element of control requires almost constant monitoring as I'm now learning.

There are signs of green growth which to me indicates that the root mass is nicely being formed. There are a couple of leaves here and there that show signs of over fert, but I'm almost certain those are old leaves which had those symptoms before I potted them.

Some people might wonder on the tools I'm using to measure EC and pH.

The bluelab truncheon is the EC meter, while the pH is measured with a pH meter supplied by Growth Technology.

I won't make any plans for what to do next as plants have a tendency to disobey orders sometimes. I do feel a flush comin on tho... Does anyone have an opinion as to a flush is necessary with hydro i.e. just a day o two of pH balanced water? Is it worth it? I think soil is flushed to drain away some of the toxic build up within the medium. ith hydro there shouldn't be any build up right?

Thanks for reading folks and keep tuned in to see how my first flood and drain is progressing.

You need to adjust your ph 2 or 3 times pr day !
try to have your ph 5.8 to 6.2 !
My first hydro grow I did 9 plants in a 3' x 4' space and whit a 400 HPS I had so many problems and I only got 2 or 3 oz of bud out of 9 plants.......but now I have 12 plant`s under a 1000W MH / HPS in a 4' x 4' and I got 3 to 4 oz pr plant !
I veg for 30 day`s or 12 to 16 in and flower finest at abut 27 to 30 in but I`m still learning
And this 3 to 4 oz pr plant yield is whit the help of ZANDOR you can find Z at ;
Dopefiend . co . uk: The Cannabis Podcast Network
or at the grow report.com
thank`s Z

Well I have to go to work now but if you send me your e-mail I can send you more info or I try to post moor this weekand
later man ! !

Thanks for your input stoneinks. I guess the pH thing is normal then if you're telling me about 2-3 times per day adjustments... I think that is how i'm supposed to read it n e how. Were/Are you manually adjusting your pH 2-3 times per day? Or did you figure out something that was causing it?

I will attempt to keep the pH within the range you suggest and not 5.5-6.2, as you've proven it to work yourself. 3-4 Oz per plant is pretty impressive. I have a few soil grown plants in the room which are set to produce 3-5 Oz each. But this is because they were vegged for soo long (about 13weeks as they were mothers also)

I will also look zandor up as I've seen many posts around the board by this person. I'd like to achieve high yeilds with this unforgiving hydro.

I must now get out of bed. Cheers for reading folks and standby for updates...

Hello readers. Nothing to add really besides pretty much the same.

The pH was up, but not as up as it has been. 6.4 was the reading, so I brought it back to 5.8.

The EC appeared fine too with a reading of 1.2.

Even better than that, I can actually see an abundance of new growth happening uniformly with all potted clones. Over the next week I hope to see these babies spring into a growth spurt. As I roll into week 2 of bloom I shall add a few new pics.

So far so good, but a pH controller would surely be desired for any future developments in the garden.

The temperatures are still appraching 34C as summer begins to show itself. There isn't much I can to about it, but if any of the plants in the garden start to experience lock down then I'll have to reverse the cycle immediately. Can't wait to get some new pics up in here!!!

cheers readers

Well if I under stand the cycle of the plant the ph will change depending on what stage the plant is in !
The ph up and down is cased by the plant deposit salt`s and minerals back in to the water I know you are in the flower stage but there is still difrent cycles in the flower stage ! !
One thing that can “help” keep the ph more stable is a bigreservoir ! ! !
Whit hydro growing you must be as clean as possible whit every thing (grow room,flor,wals &
equipment , reservoir & your self ”do not go out side and work in your yard and than enter your grow room do not let you pet`s in the room dog/cat )
I try to clean out my reservoir ever 2 or 4 weeks whit bleach water (sterilize it ) and I flush out my growing tray`s at the same time ! !
If you have ever had a aquarium that is how you want to treat you hydro sys !

What are you using to adjust your ph up and down ? ? ? ?
What lights do you have ? I think you had 3000 W ? ? ? and 1 600W hps ? ?
Did you down lode the grow report ? ? ? Evry thing you are asking is answered in the show`s by zandor and this Saturday is all abut ph in your hydro sys .....2 to 3 oz pr plant is`int shitt but 2 or 3 LB IS IF WE GROW 2 OR 4 PLANTS WHIT 2 TO 3 LB ....OOOOOOOOO YE THAT IS THE SHITT ! ! ! !

What are you using to adjust your ph up and down ? ? ? ?
What lights do you have ? I think you had 3000 W ? ? ? and 1 600W hps ? ?
Did you down lode the grow report ? ? ? Evry thing you are asking is answered in the show`s by zandor and this Saturday is all abut ph in your hydro sys .....2 to 3 oz pr plant is`int shitt but 2 or 3 LB IS IF WE GROW 2 OR 4 PLANTS WHIT 2 TO 3 LB ....OOOOOOOOO YE THAT IS THE SHITT ! ! ! !

Thanks for replying to my queries stoneinks, I'm very appreciative.

I did wonder if the pH thing was related to the stage that the plants were at today, just before coming online in fact.

So the same circumstances that might cause over fertilisation/nute burn can cause an increase in pH. What I mean is, like you said '...The ph up and down is cased by the plant deposit salt`s and minerals back in to the water...', so there becomes a build up of particular elements that not only affect the pH but also the EC/ppm/CF?

Practically speaking I have recently whitnessed this.

I can't install a bigger reservoir at the moment but I will consider it.

I've been reading the thread 'Another pH question' and it seems to have much useful info too with regard to pH. Some relevant to my circumstances and some, just useful info for the future.

I also visited dope_fiend on the web and it too is very useful and I will be indulging in some easy listening over the coming weeks. The board is quite useful for asking questions that require immediate answers even when the subjects are discussed and repeatedly discussed and the answers are already available to find. I prefer to ask as some people like to share and refresh the knowledge for themselves while teaching.

I do try to keep the garden (indoor) as clean as possible. Everything is that is used in the growroom is sterile on entry in so far as is achievable. Every harvest everything is steralised. Buckets and jugs and submersed hoses get cleaned almost weekly as do any reservoirs used for mixing. Even the cleaning utensils get cleaned. I'm cautious as I've seen many a crop destroyed by pests and foreign agent contamination. Pets are totally BANNED!

I use Growth Technology's pH down. Is their variation in performance across brands?

And to the lighting, just to round off, there are a total of 5 * 600W hps lights suspended in the garden. One of which is illuminating the hydro setup, but there is a total of 3kW of lighting in the immediate area.

As for overall yeild. My aim is quick turn-around. I'm not very fussed about vegging for months to get a plant to yeild lots of fruit. I'm after speed and quality without compromising what I was told by my Nute Supplier which was '...I should aim for 20 Oz per 600W bulb...', of which I'm now capable of exceeding in soil.

Thanks for giving me a few things to think about to increase success stoneinks.

Greetings readers. Visible changes as we enter week 2 of bloom.

The weather today has been relatively cool in comparrison to previous days. Overcast with little or zero sun penetration. The inside temperature was 28C upon leaving the garden.

I was quite taken back when I tested the pH to find that it was only 5.9. I did expect it to be more.

The EC reading was 1.2 - 1.3 also. I had to pause and wonder if the fairies had dosed the reservoir for me.

The new growth is looking good for day 1 of week 2 (day8). No addition signs of what I thought could have been nute burn. Everything is cool. There are now signs of roots emerging from the bottoms of all of the pots. Development appears to be very uniform, even with the odd one or two clones that some might have said 'wouldn't make it'. See pics below.

1. left tray
2. right tray
3. low angle from left hand side front corner
4. one pulled out for modelling purposes
5. low angle from the right hand side

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