Thread: PH KEEPS RISING! PLEASE HELP!!!

Hello, I am running a recirculating top feed drip system in six of the 5 gallon buckets with pure hydroton and a 10 gallon reservoir with ice to keep it cool. Feeding goes on all day with 2 minutes every 10 to help it drain. I am using the three part advanced nutrients with silica, that fulsomething acid, nectarsweet, calmag, wet betty, and supervit. I have a CO2 system. Change the water out regularly. I am using RO water.

Here's the problem. A week ago my ph began to rise, I figured it was because the plants were getting root bound, so I transplanted them into their own 5 gallon buckets with a little bit of nutriboost. They seemed to do ok, but the ph kept fluctuating. Must be root rot right? So I used some of the Zone from dutchmaster (like peroxide). Still no change. I had a clog, fixed that (don't know why but I thought that could have been affecting ph, and then maybe the metal strainers I put in to prevent the clogs are affecting it?) Anyways, simplest answer is easiest. Calibrated my ph meter, it was off. Changed out all the water. Remixed everything. Seemed to have it fixed. The ph was staying at 5.6 or 5.7 where I put it! So I discontinued the Zone applications and as I am about to go into flowering, thought Id help bulk up the roots from the transplant with some tarantuala and iguana (the fungi stuff u use with it) as well as some hygrozyme.

Yet now my ph is back to rising to 6.1/6.2 in the course of a few hours!!! I even bought a second ph meter, calibrated them both and they both confirm that the ph is now rising.

My suspicions:
1) The hygrozyme is dissolving some of the dead root mass which is raising the ph.
2) The cultures are raising the ph as they get started.
3) I am running my 6 at around 700 ppm. Adding around 10 tsp of micro, 10 of bloom, 10 of grow, 30 total (as recommended by advanced's website for light feeding a 10 gallon reservoir), to my 10 gallon reservoir, then all the additives and excellerant junk to bring it up where it needs to be. Am I not adding enough of the basic 3 part solution, the big guys are going through that in a day or two, and that is rising the ph? But by as much as 5.5 to 6.2 in a half a day? And the ppm's don't seem to be changing much.

Sorry for the long e-mail but I am stuck!!!!!! ALL HELP IS APPRECIATED AND WILL RECEIVE GOOD KARMA!

Do a search for hydroton....ph issues or high ph.....you'll have more information on your problems then you'll know what to do with.

If your hydroton isn't the issue then most likely you are burning them.

Good luck.

Also would be good idea to do a full system flush

Yeah, when I did the full system flush it stablized til i added the tarantula and the iguana and the hygrozyme. I've been reading about the hydroton and high ph. So you believe I didn't pretreat the hydroton correctly? I rinsed it. I thought it was ph neutral (oh shoot does that mean at 7?)

Ok....more thorough read through. What day are you at? I personally use cannazym and have found the opposite is true...cannazym helps stabilize ph, not raise it so i'm not sure that is your problem.

When did you add this metal you are talking about? That would make me wonder if perhaps something is leaching into your water. I don't know enough about it to say but I do wonder....

How are your plants growing? Happily or do they have issues? As they get later on into flowering its normal for the ph to rise daily due to high nutrient needs. Mine generally will rise about 1 point a day (from 5.6 to 6.5 in 24 hours) so that becomes something you have to deal with if that is indeed the reason.

I personally hate hydroton with a passion (it's a personal thing ) but if you are more than 4 weeks in your hydroton should be stabilized even if you didn't pre-treat it correctly. And if it was normal before but NOW is a problem.....that doesn't really fit with "new hydroton syndrome."

HMMMMM. Well I am in the transition week to flowering, although 3 are older, just over a month, and 2 are only a week or two, and another is somewhere in between. 730 ppm levels, I gave the 10-12 gallon res an extra tablespoon of micro due to what looked like some manganese deficiency in some leaves. I am highly interested that you said your levels change from 5.6 to 6.5 IN 24 HOURS!!! Holy crap is that normal? How many plants, how big a res? I have 6 in a 12 gallon res. It sounds like that could totally be it. I am Adding around 10 tsp of micro, 10 of bloom, 10 of grow, 30 total (as recommended by advanced's website for light feeding a 10 gallon reservoir), to my 10 gallon reservoir for six plants. Does that sound low to you? I think it may be. Could low nute levels cause it to change ph that much in just a few hours? Keep in mind my ppm levels don't fluctuate all that much, no signs of deficiency other than the above.

Ok I have personal issues with hydroton myself.....I think it leads to fert build up issues. I used it for about 6 months and finally changed but lots of people seem to have no problem with it so sometimes I wonder if it's just me.

I have pretty large plants in waterfarms (about 2 gals apiece) and my ph doesn't start rising like that until about week 4 of flowering and on and I used to have to adjust it constantly. Now I recirculate the nutes and that helps keep the ph down but it is considered normal pretty much at that point.

However....you aren't at that point and so yours should not be rising like that unless they are suddenly taking a huge grow jump or something. So it's pretty much up to you to watch and see if the nute level is too much which can also definitely cause ph to rise. If you want to find out for sure....drop back your ppms and see if your ph stabilizes. If so....stay on the lower side. If not....I am still wondering about the metal in your system and did you use a flushing agent when flushing the system?
Those would be my other two thoughts.

Hey, thanks again for all of your help. So, I'm sure it's not too much nutes, they may even be a little low, as for hydroton, I give this a good flushing every week along with some floaclean as a salt leaching agent. And as for the metal peices, they are just those mesh screens you see in hoses, 3 for a $1.50 at the store. As they were made for water usage I don't believe they are leaking into the water and the problem started before they were put in.

I am at a new lead and would love your input. So the first time it was off, I think it was the ph meter uncalibrated. Now I have 2 that are calibrated and got problems when adding Tarantula, Pirahna, and Hygrozyme. I just remembered that I had some TEA COMPOST and FLORALICIOUS, both organics, in my reservoir. Could the Hygrozyme be reacting to the organics and causing the ph to rise by breaking them down?

I doubt root rot is / was causing your ph to rise .
Rot more often than not causes drop , not rise . I use hydroton too , I soak it in ph corrected water for 2-3 days before even introducing it into my system , and I rinse as much of the powdery crap out of it beforehand . Depending on what stage of life the plants in I get as much as .5 or more ph fluxuation per day .
I try to keep my res. somewhere between 5.5 - 6.2 . Hydro is much more maintence than soil .
Peace
Crispi

Mix up a couple gallons of your nute in a seperate container, drop in an airstone, and let it sit for a day or two.

If pH doesn't change, then the issue is in your system.

If pH does change, it's an interaction between chemistry and your water supply.

Get the metals out of the system- pretty much anything but stainless is asking for trouble.

Is there any precipitate at the bottom of your res?

UPDATE: I woke up this morning before my pump turned on to check the ph and it was 7!!!! This means that it increased all by itself in the rezzy overnight. Also, and this is a head scratcher, the ppm's increased by almost 100 to around 820 ppm. Raising ppm and ph?! Is this hygrozyme breaking stuff down into the water, or is the bacteria/fungi growing, maybe eating some of the organics like molasses that are in there?

I've put the ph down to 5.5, and will let it drift up throughout the day. You think with it increasing as it is that if I let it drift from 5.5 to 6.5 and then put it back down once, maybe twice a day, I will be good?
Thanks again for all your help! Keep it Coming!

And Rhizome, I am currently doing a test with RO water, my organics, and the hygrozome and bacteria/fungi, to see if there is an interaction, but nothing yet.

As for the metal, these are just those little screens/aerators that you put in hoses, made to be used with water, not rusty nails or something.

As for precipitate, some, I remember in the past seeing some brown cloudiness, but most noticeably its been the wash off from the hydroton. I've cleaned my pumps filter and it doesn't seem to be getting much more in it, but yes there is stuff in there.

Can root growth be causing the ph to rise?

Anyone?

I don't think so.......

I recently flushed and changed out the water to straight up micro grow and bloom with calmag. Only had it on for 20 min before nighttime but THE PH SEEMED TO STABILIZE. It was no longer a steady stream of .1 over out of the drainage.

What could I have been adding that caused it to do that? The hygrozyme? That or maybe the cultures.

I tested the hygrozyme in conjunction with my floralicious and compost tea alone. It did seem to raise their ph a little after first dropping it.

Also, my roots are like black, not brown(only a little of that, not like when I once had full on root rot). This dark color is normal right? Result of the floralicous which turned my res water dark?

black? got a photo? And if your ph IS still rising....Id wonder again about your metal.....something made for "water" isn't necessarily made for correct hydro ph levels.

i think it has stabilized. Imagine spaghetti w watery, not chunky black sauce and the sauce poured off for the roots. I am 90% sure thats normal w organics. Have u used organicslike flloralicious before?

No i haven't. If the black stuff rinses off then I don't think you have a root problem.

Well it seems to have stablilized! I changed the water and just used micro, grow, bloom, calmag, superthrive that good acid to help it digest, wet betty, and . . . hygrozyme (the last of which should clear up any dead material on the roots, like peroxide, but will allow the bacteria and fungi to stay alive).

What I have not added: floralicious, tea compost, supervit, nectarsweet (basically my organics), and dm ZONE - potassium silicate.

HOWEVER, I did tests in kitchen glasses with all the not added ones on the bottom (except zone) mixed with the hygrozyme then later cultures of bacteria and fungi. The ph first dropped, then climed about half a point. It was NOT as vigorous a ph change as what I saw in my rezzy.

SO WHAT IS HAVING THE INTERACTION? The hygrozyme and silica? The only two I haven't tested? This is weird!!!!

did you remove the metal or is that still there and still no problem?

still there, not a problem

if I called them washer guards would it make you feel better?

No but if they aren't causing a problem then I don't care what you call them.

A rising ph is often a (first!) sign of nuteburn.....I'm not saying that's your problem because I don't know but it IS something to think about.

It's the tarantula that is causing the pH to rise. When growing in hydro the amount recommended is way too much and causes the pH to rise like crazy. You can mix up a batch and hand water the pots once a week and it will affect the pH less. Also, you can stick with constant feeding but you probably only need 3 or 4 waterings a day for 15 min.

Yo Hound, March 1st post, I already got it stabilized. It's not nuteburn. Thanks though. Oh and pepper, I have been waiting for days on about 5 boards for someone that was familiar with the products to tell me what is going on. I agree, I thought I was putting way too much in of the tarantula (the reccommended amonut). I also read that those bacteria can make ph rise for a day or two. I think you are right. Thank you, being one of the first ones to actually answer the question that was asked. What amounts do you go for of the tarantula, let's say per 5 gal? 1 tsp? 2 tsp?