Thread: LED EXPERIMENT - BLUE DOMINANT FLOWERING

I just tuned in today on what you're doing. Looks great so far. I have been working with 300w LED Panels for a year now and I am enjoying the results. I have evolved to the point of putting them on Light Track 5's and move 4 - 300w LED panels over a 4'x8' tray about an inch above the canopy (sometimes touching). If you're interested I will show you pics of the great results. I also had a similar problem with the leaves bleaching out, it turned out to be a nutrient lock out. I remedied it with an amazing product called Sea Green.
I have been using many different panels with different color combinations, so I am very interested in your blue dominate experiment. I am working with a new company that will make me any combo I want so I'd like to learn any color advice you may have.

With 4 300w panels, I don't see why you'd put them on the light mover instead of having each 300w panel cover a 4x2 area over the tray and save yourself some power and heat by eliminating the light mover. Actually, I'm just using 120w over a 4x2 area and doing rather well.

Trichome production is controlled by blue light and partially by genetics. Trichomes are produced partially as a protective response against damaging EM radiation starting at around 460nm and dropping into the UV range. If you want something for hash, you're going to want LOTS of blue, approximately 60% of the panel will need to be of blue wavelengths. Supplement that with only 660nm red for inducing flowering during 12/12 and you're good to go.

Harvested and dried - weigh-in at:

14.1g. I expected more like 10g with the stress I put these plants through, though it will likely be about 10g once the stems are removed. So from 30w total LED I got a half-ounce before de-stemming and curing. For those that prefer it, that's just under .5g/w with the most basic nutrient solution for feeding.

Trichome density is pretty nice. I'll try a rig to get a good close-up, but no guarantees. There are many more trichomes versus the stuff under the quad-band prototype.

...wow.

I had a particular blend of spectrae in mind when I started planning the LED I'd really like to have, and you may have just forced me to reconsider the balance!

Was planning on something like 50% 660nm, 10% 630nm, 10% 610nm, 20% 460nm, and 5% 'full-ish' spectrum white, with 5% in the far red @ 720nm... trying to mimic the curve that the plants seem to like.

NOW, I gotta figg'r out how I'm gonna squeeeeeze a lot more blue in there, as well as some UV/'short blue'...

You've just complicated my plans, tho wonderfully! I was also thinking of throwing in some RGB tricolours, with a way to dial the individual R, G, and B up as needed (the G would mainly be for viewing the garden in 'nighttime' without waking up the babies).

Where would you recommend me sourcing the various colours, khyberkitsune? Looking for mostly 1w emitters, and 20 or 30 degree spread on them, for penetration.

Your gardens rock, mon!

Most 1w emitters aren't going to have 20-30 degree beam without reflection cups. The typical natural emission angle for good 1w diodes is minimum 60 degrees.

If you're going to go blue-heavy, ignore 610nm, and 630nm, typical RGB diodes are poorly matched for emissions (they're meant more for display purposes than horticulture,) and UV isn't worth much, you get the same effect just by going heavier on the 460nm light. Far red is only usable in combination with 660-670nm radiation and only when it's far-red in the 720-740nm range to stimulate the Emerson effect for enhanced photosynthesis, but even that isn't necessary as the blue light will help handle that job as well.

Mouser.com should be able to help you find what you want.

I put the LED panels on movers so I can get the most light intensity to the flowers (hung 1 in. above the canopy)and give all the plants an even hit of light. I keeps the canopy flat and all the bud develop well even 12 in. below the canopy. It's working, I'm getting 8 oz. per light right now with a 7:2 Red:Blue ratio. Sounds like I can do better by using your blue dominate formula. So how about 50% 460nm, 10% 420nm and 40% 660? Does that sound about right?

khyberkitsune:
So just so we're clear, you found that you got more trich formation with the Blue dominant lights, while retaining density/mass? Or did it increase mass as well?

Would you still reccomend a more "traditional" red dominant LED panel that uses like an 80/20 split of 660nm red's and 460nm blue's, for vegging, and then switching to this blue dominant panel for flowering?

If that is the case, if you were to do it all with just one panel in the same room, then couldn't you do this with a panel of approx 50/50 split 460nm blue / 660nm red? During Vegging, you shut off a bunch of the blue's to get your 80/20 red/blue split, and then during flowering, you shut off some of the red's to get a 40/60 red/blue split? Would this be ideal then? This would also increase light output during flowering which is ideal if anything correct?

Also are you a fan of just using dual band lighting in the 460/660 range and forgoing any other wavelength's for veg and flower?

I'm trying to formulate some plans for some DIY LED panels I'm making for a friend's 8 pot hydro setup that I intend to run fully off LED. I appreciate your input or any one elses as well! thanks.

Originally Posted by runitbyron

I put the LED panels on movers so I can get the most light intensity to the flowers (hung 1 in. above the canopy)and give all the plants an even hit of light. I keeps the canopy flat and all the bud develop well even 12 in. below the canopy. It's working, I'm getting 8 oz. per light right now with a 7:2 Red:Blue ratio. Sounds like I can do better by using your blue dominate formula. So how about 50% 460nm, 10% 420nm and 40% 660? Does that sound about right?

That sounds like it might work, although newly-gathered information regarding my quad-band with 420nm suggests that 420nm might be pointless altogether.

I need to retract a prior statement about 630nm diodes. I keep forgetting they've got the higher photosynthetic efficiency rate for just basic phytochemical processes (just love looking at dichroic grows, though!) But DO avoid the 610nm diodes.

Originally Posted by sunotorp

khyberkitsune:
So just so we're clear, you found that you got more trich formation with the Blue dominant lights, while retaining density/mass? Or did it increase mass as well?

Would you still reccomend a more "traditional" red dominant LED panel that uses like an 80/20 split of 660nm red's and 460nm blue's, for vegging, and then switching to this blue dominant panel for flowering?

If that is the case, if you were to do it all with just one panel in the same room, then couldn't you do this with a panel of approx 50/50 split 460nm blue / 660nm red? During Vegging, you shut off a bunch of the blue's to get your 80/20 red/blue split, and then during flowering, you shut off some of the red's to get a 40/60 red/blue split? Would this be ideal then? This would also increase light output during flowering which is ideal if anything correct?

Also are you a fan of just using dual band lighting in the 460/660 range and forgoing any other wavelength's for veg and flower?

I'm trying to formulate some plans for some DIY LED panels I'm making for a friend's 8 pot hydro setup that I intend to run fully off LED. I appreciate your input or any one elses as well! thanks.

1. For what I was doing and for the stress I incurred during the run, I got more trich formation with approximately equal mass. There's a fine line of blue/red I've been tweaking and still not hit the perfect spot.

2. For veg, those would work fine, and I would suggest switching to a more blue-dominant panel (the 40:60 r:b I've got right now has the best all-around performance I've seen from a panel using 1w diodes) for the fruiting and flowering phases.

3. Such a complicated setup like that only adds costs and more points of failure. I would not recommend it at all, just beam as much light as you can onto the plants. Also, just shutting off sources of usable light isn't a good idea. More power, more light, more penetration.

4. Not at all. My particular lights were meant more for seedlings and cuttings, so going dual-band was the simpler method. I just wanted to test these babies out for flowering and got some interesting results that were unexpected considering the very similar regimen given to other plants, minus the light balance. I think quad-band for certain plants might be a waste (cannabis being one that so far I've seen no added benefit in quad band versus tri-band with the same ratio of red:blue) I think for basic starter stuff a dual band is ideal, and for more complex stuff, tri-band will do most everything. Perhaps more complex plants would benefit from some deeper blue but most of my herbs and fruiting plants have had no noticable difference between many different bands and just a few bands.

5. I can give advice but I can't give out my specifics on my panels internals. Business secrets and all that.

I will be documenting a customers grow with my ratio coming up! This will be a medical cannabis grow in Cali! I love it!

Can't wait to see! Give me a link when you start!

I know this is a little old, but I'm thinking of supplementing my current lights with some blue during flowering. Would you suggest just 460nm or a ratio with 420nm? I was thinking a 60:40 split.

Originally Posted by ChrisGGG

I know this is a little old, but I'm thinking of supplementing my current lights with some blue during flowering. Would you suggest just 460nm or a ratio with 420nm? I was thinking a 60:40 split.

Well before we go into that, what are your current lights? THat will help us out in figuring out whether or not you truly need to supplement.

Right now I have a 250W HPS, but I would like to transition to LED. I was planning on converting my veg first, then eventually flowering. Whats your opinion on 2W vs 3W vs 5W LEDs?

Originally Posted by ChrisGGG

Right now I have a 250W HPS, but I would like to transition to LED. I was planning on converting my veg first, then eventually flowering. Whats your opinion on 2W vs 3W vs 5W LEDs?

No true 5w single-chip emitters out yet so worthless.

The true 3w diodes I'm using are actually nice, I'm using them right now in a few secret gardens of my own.

Are you only using te 250w HPS in both veg and flower? If that is the case, the most you'd probably needis a 135-165w panel to truly replace the HID from start to finish.

Wow, loved this one! Don't really see huge difference in them, do you in person? Also looked at the 'HydrogrowLED', modular construction. The fans. ballasts, and LED light modules are user replaceable, so you don't have down time. Really some of the most amazing growth in both rooms. (veg & flowering) as soon as I can scrape it together I am a buyer.

LEDs r very affordable now.. Go to Sunshinesystems.com, Red/Blue LEDS 28w = 250 watts of hps. U can get 3 lights for $300. They work great!! Have friends growing chilis and peppers with great success.

Originally Posted by CovertCarpenter

...de LAWN chaiah on dis here one..!

I swear, as soon as I have some money to be buying expensive LEDs, I'm going to be looking for me soldiering ir'n...

GO khyberkitsune!

weeeellll, who among us is wealthy enough to run these new plasma lights, jumping in at a meager $1500 usd for 400w. it combines spectrums so one does it all. it doesnt produce the heat just like flouros, and lasts longer than flouros. these are the claims.