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Thread: End to the debate/promix & PH

  1. #1
    and68i is offline Registered
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    End to the debate/promix & PH

    There has been much confusion about promix. I contacted the co who makes it
    and since it is soiless it is considered a medium for hydroponics and the Ph
    should be 5.9.

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  3. #2
    seventhchild is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by and68i View Post
    There has been much confusion about promix. I contacted the co who makes it
    and since it is soiless it is considered a medium for hydroponics and the Ph
    should be 5.9.
    you seem to be confused...soiless and hydroponics are two totally different animals.....peat moss based mixes such as Pro Mix should NOT be used in hydroponic systems.......PH your water/nutes at 6.2-6.6 for best results in Pro Mix...

  4. #3
    khyberkitsune is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by and68i View Post
    There has been much confusion about promix. I contacted the co who makes it
    and since it is soiless it is considered a medium for hydroponics and the Ph
    should be 5.9.
    You're out of your freaking mind.

    You don't put that in a hydroponics system, you totally screw your TDS/EC readings as that garbage dissolves in the acidic water.

    Soilless culture and hydroponics are two ENTIRELY DIFFERENT things.

  5. #4
    oldmac's Avatar
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    hy-dro-pon-ics = soiless agriculture; the raising of plants in nutrient mineral solutions without EARTH around the roots.

    Pro-Mix used in a container and feed via the nutrient solution IS hydroponics.
    Whether you hand water, set up an automated top feed (drip system) or place the containers in a grow tray (sometimes called a flood table) and bottom feed (ebb & flow) to reuse nutrients....it's all hydroponics.

    Suggested PH by the mfg. is 5.9, but check and see what your nutrient mfg suggests. Dutch Master recomends 6.0 for Pro-Mix. (not a big difference)

    BTW Pro-Mix is one of the few growing mediums that do not require cal/mag to be added even if using RO water. It contains dolomite lime that breaks down to calcium and magnesium, one less thing for commercial greenhouse growers to add to thier RO water.

    OM
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    Keep it civil please, gentlemen. -StinkyAttic

  6. #5
    khyberkitsune is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldmac View Post
    hy-dro-pon-ics = soiless agriculture; the raising of plants in nutrient mineral solutions without EARTH around the roots.

    Pro-Mix used in a container and feed via the nutrient solution IS hydroponics.
    Whether you hand water, set up an automated top feed (drip system) or place the containers in a grow tray (sometimes called a flood table) and bottom feed (ebb & flow) to reuse nutrients....it's all hydroponics.

    Suggested PH by the mfg. is 5.9, but check and see what your nutrient mfg suggests. Dutch Master recomends 6.0 for Pro-Mix. (not a big difference)

    BTW Pro-Mix is one of the few growing mediums that do not require cal/mag to be added even if using RO water. It contains dolomite lime that breaks down to calcium and magnesium, one less thing for commercial greenhouse growers to add to thier RO water.

    OM
    Hydroponics - Greek for Water Works. Water does the work, water contains everything, the medium is 100% neutral.

    Real hydroponics systems do not allow the main root structure to embed itself into a medium, roots are always given direct access to the nutrient solution instead of having to absorb it from a medium that the roots are embedded into.

    Soilless mixtures hold and retain the water and oxygen, their purpose is to REPLACE SOIL and provide a place for roots to hold onto and absorb nutrition.

    True hydroponics, you have no medium like that. You have at the most an initial seed starting plug and the roots just dangle away in the nute solution.

    Video - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting - this is a true hydroponics system. Note the distinct lack of pro-mix or anything besides rockwool.

    Even the grass seed itself doesn't require a substrate.

  7. #6
    oldmac's Avatar
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    I saw this back in Feb, but decided then it wasn't worth argueing with an idiot that is never wrong. Came across this just now and decided this shit can't go unchallenged.

    Quote Originally Posted by khyberkitsune View Post
    Hydroponics - Greek for Water Works. Water does the work, water contains everything, the medium is 100% neutral.

    Pro-Mix is 100% neutral, unless you want to count the dolomite lime.

    Real hydroponics systems do not allow the main root structure to embed itself into a medium, roots are always given direct access to the nutrient solution instead of having to absorb it from a medium that the roots are embedded into.

    Then according to you, rockwool is not a real hydroponic medium.

    Soilless mixtures hold and retain the water and oxygen, their purpose is to REPLACE SOIL and provide a place for roots to hold onto and absorb nutrition.

    Rockwool, cocca, hydrotron etc all do this very same thing.

    True hydroponics, you have no medium like that. You have at the most an initial seed starting plug and the roots just dangle away in the nute solution.

    Then there are a whole lot of people doing hydroponics, that are according to your narrow definition that ain't "true" hydro growers.

    Video - TinyPic - Free Image Hosting, Photo Sharing & Video Hosting - this is a true hydroponics system. Note the distinct lack of pro-mix or anything besides rockwool.

    Rockwool? Doesn't that allow for the roots to be embedded in the media?
    You are now talking out both sides of your mouth.


    Even the grass seed itself doesn't require a substrate.
    And neither does marijuanna seed, I grow seeds out using a neoprene collar (Blackstars) in a EZ-Clonner.

    My latest system's are aero/fog and they truly have NO media, just collars and empty net pots, just to provide plant support.

    Geez, then some people wonder why this idiot bothers me....

    ...or maybe it's the avatar of a crappy UFO LED, that represent's the worst of LED lights and over hyped marketing.


    OM
    Keep it civil please, gentlemen. -StinkyAttic

  8. #7
    khyberkitsune is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldmac View Post
    I saw this back in Feb, but decided then it wasn't worth argueing with an idiot that is never wrong. Came across this just now and decided this shit can't go unchallenged.



    And neither does marijuanna seed, I grow seeds out using a neoprene collar (Blackstars) in a EZ-Clonner.

    My latest system's are aero/fog and they truly have NO media, just collars and empty net pots, just to provide plant support.

    Geez, then some people wonder why this idiot bothers me....

    ...or maybe it's the avatar of a crappy UFO LED, that represent's the worst of LED lights and over hyped marketing.


    OM
    You had to resort to an insult, your entire argument is 100% invalid.

    And if you had crap results with a UFO, well that's your fault for falling for all thew BS hype instead of doing reasearch and doing your own. I've had ZERO issues with any of mine.

    And no, a starter plug is NOT considered a medium.

    Go be mad somewhere else. It took you over a month to respond, just to INSULT me?

    How PATHETIC.

  9. #8
    oldmac's Avatar
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    What's pathetic are arrogant piss ants that are never wrong....

    ....coupled with a reading comprehension problem.

    I shall try, again, to just ignore you.

    OM
    Keep it civil please, gentlemen. -StinkyAttic

  10. #9
    macnasty is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by khyberkitsune View Post
    your entire argument is 100% invalid.
    generally, a statement like this follows with reasons/examples
    Quote Originally Posted by khyberkitsune View Post
    And no, a starter plug is NOT considered a medium.
    uhhh, yes it is. at least for the duration that the roots are growing within the plug. but this is just semantics?
    Quote Originally Posted by khyberkitsune View Post
    It took you over a month to respond, just to INSULT me?
    if someone writes a statement that rockwool, peetmoss based mediums, hydroton growers are not using hydroponics and this results in growers changing their ph range inputs that are not hydro specific...then it's misinformation and deserves a response, any day of the month, pending Oldmac's understandable limits of patience.
    truepunk87 and Weezard like this.

  11. #10
    oldmac's Avatar
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    Hey macnasty,

    Thanks for chimming in. When I said rock wool, I wasn't just referring to starter plugs, I was including blocks. In my perosnal grow I root cuttings in grodan macro plugs, then transplant the plugs into 4" delta blocks, then flower plants in the same blocks. Durring thier entire growth the roots are in the blocks (some try to escape out the bottom ).

    Just yesterday I was talking to a neigbor who has greenhouses (almost 5 acres under glass and plastic). Looking at one of his set ups that uses Pro-Mix in small pots, I asked him what he called that method.....he said "container hydro". When I asked him why, he said they are feed with RO water plus nutrients and Pro-Mix is SOILESS.

    I don't know, maybe exposure to crappy LED lighting does something to your brain.

    OM
    Keep it civil please, gentlemen. -StinkyAttic

  12. #11
    seventhchild is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldmac View Post
    hy-dro-pon-ics = soiless agriculture; the raising of plants in nutrient mineral solutions without EARTH around the roots.

    Pro-Mix used in a container and feed via the nutrient solution IS hydroponics.
    Whether you hand water, set up an automated top feed (drip system) or place the containers in a grow tray (sometimes called a flood table) and bottom feed (ebb & flow) to reuse nutrients....it's all hydroponics.

    Suggested PH by the mfg. is 5.9, but check and see what your nutrient mfg suggests. Dutch Master recomends 6.0 for Pro-Mix. (not a big difference)

    BTW Pro-Mix is one of the few growing mediums that do not require cal/mag to be added even if using RO water. It contains dolomite lime that breaks down to calcium and magnesium, one less thing for commercial greenhouse growers to add to thier RO water.

    OM
    I consider myself Enlightened by this thread . not only has khyberkitsune posted way too many suspiciously stupid comments in so many threads to side with him on anything but OldMac has stated quite clearly why ProMix is hydro. now ....back on topic...adjust the PH according to the fert mfg recomend?? why not adjusting for the medium and runoff? my plants are very healthy with Jacks 10/30/20 and MG 18/18/21 at 6.8 PH...
    Weezard likes this.

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