Hey all. I’m new to growing much of anything, much less weed, so I could use a little help if y'all don't mind. I tried soil and the fraggin' things would not grow for me. 3 months and the little buggers never got more than a couple inches tall, and then mysteriously died. LOL From everything I'd read hydroponics was suposed to be a lot easier. *shrug* It is too, because they're actually growing this time. I'm just suddenly having this little problem and as soon as I find out what it is I'll be able to correct it. *grin*I've got three lovelies growing right now, and they're on an auto feed from a main tub which they sit over. They're still really young, it's been about three and a half weeks since i moved them from the Ziploc that I used for germination and put them into my hydroponics setup so I don't even know the sex yet.

That's not important though. What is important is that the leaves on one of them are curling under and getting yellow spots. I feel sure, from all the reading that I've done, that it's in need on magnesium, and I figure that I can just add it right into the hydro juice. What my real problem is that I don't under stand why it's only one of them showing these signs when they're all on the exact same juice, that is to say that they're sharing the same solution.

A friend suggested that it was because it was the runt of the trio, but in fact, it used to be the mid-sized plant until it started having this problem and now it's become the runt because it's not growing as well and the one that was the runt.

Can anyone advise me why three plants sharing the same solution wouldn't all be in the same state of health? I'd also like to know how much Epsom salt I should add to the 6 gallons of hydro juice. One last thing, do I have to worry about the two that appear healthy winding up getting sick if they don’t need more magnesium?

I checked the ph this morning and it's right where the liturature says that it should be, between 6.25 and 6.5.

I've included some pics...the first two are a couple different leaves on the afflicted plant and the third one is what the healthy plants look like...the fourth pic is what my hydro set up looks like.

Attached Images

	25days~Sick01.jpg (89.8 KB, 34 views)
	25days~Sick02.jpg (102.7 KB, 21 views)
	25days~Healthy01.jpg (95.4 KB, 18 views)
	SHK-1_normal.jpg (27.9 KB, 39 views)

I will take a shot at what is wrong.

If you used a recommended dosage of nutes when you first put those plants in the 6 gallans 3 weeks ago, I highly doubt it is a nutrient deficiency. I would guess it is an oxygen issue with the roots. I would guess that the water is over 70 degrees and you are using a smaller air pump. Is the one plant that is having the issue in the middle of the tub and the other two on the outside with the air stones directly under them? I would add air, probably double it.

You might as well just do a nutes change though if you think it might be a nute deficiency. That doesn't take much work and should be easy to find out if that is what it is.

Actually, when looking at that pic of the hydro tub, the problem child would be on the front left corner and there's one right behind it that's just fine. The third plant is on the front right corner and is doing the best. The airstone thing is on the right side of the tub.

I changed out the juice about a week and a half ago. I'll be doing it again this thursday or friday. Depends on when I have the time. According to the instructions I'm supposed to change out the solution every two weeks.

I can go check the temp right now to see what it is, but what temp should the solution be?

Right, so it turns out I don't have a thermometer that goes below 100F so I'm guesstamating that the solution temp is around 70 or so, because that's roughly how far below 100 the red line came up to.

Also, an interesting development that I've only thought to mention. The room is begining to smeel of spearment. Has done for about half a week now. Is that normal? A good sign or a bad or?

Peace

http://boards.cannabis.com/attachmen...0&d=1121829312

Ahhhh...now I understand why my ph was too high when everything I'd read told me it should be around 6.5. What I'd been reading was for growing in soil. Yeesh...you'd think I was stoned or something...which I wasn't. I ain't had any bud in months! That's why I'm doing this. I only know one person in this town with connections and he refuses to hook me up . Some "friend", eh? So, I'm forced to try an be self sufficient. Or try to be at any rate.

Thanks, Treetops. That was helpful. Is there a gizmo on the market that'll tell you how strong your juice is? Or is that a...uuuuh...*cough*...pipe dream? *snerk* Please, excuse the pun...couldn't help myself.

yea drop that ph to 5.8 and after a week of being stunted it will shoot the hell up like a well....weed.

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All right...here's what I did.

I just finished breaking it down, cleaning everything and putting it back together with pure(no nutes), ph balanced (between 5.75 and 6) cool tap water. BTW, all three plants are now showing signs of the condition, though in the other two it's only just started.

When I took the top off I found a strange thing. The juice had a mild froth. I know that it shouldn't because the last time I opened it up to change out the juice for fresh there was no sign of anything like that. I don't know what the froth means, unless the juice was fermenting or something like that. Maybe one of you old hands would be able to tell me. I suspect that whatever was causing the froth is a very bad thing for the plants, and was probably aided in growth by light that was getting into the resivoir through the unused growing pots. Whatever it is has surely throughrouly saturated the rockwool cubes my babies are growing in, so I also rinsed the rockwool, rocks, and roots as best as I could. I'm hoping that the rockwool and rocks will completely flushed of the contaminant by the tubes that bring the water up to the plants. I also now have the unused pots covered so that as little light as possible can get in.

I'm going to leave them on plain, ph balanced water until friday, then I'll change the water out. I'm not sure yet if I'll add nutes at that point or not. I supose it will depend on A) how the plants look, and B) what the water looks like. If the water's gungy then I'll probably just clean everything again and go a few more days with plain water.

So...questions...
Have I done right?
Are my plans sound?
WTF was up with the froth?

Any advice at all is welcome. I'd be incredibley grateful for anything anyone's got to say about the situation.

Sounds good to me....But I would only use half or less of what your Nutes say to use..just to be safe...Good luck...

I always only use half of the recommended dosages also.....Goodluck.
Peace out,
Bliss.

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Disclaimer: I do smoke marijuana, i will forever smoke it, i lead a responsible life and smoking marijuana has never affected my life or anybody around me.
My post's are 100% true.*And anti-smoking organizations can drink a tall glass of shut the fuck up.

The pH was too high was was locking out certain nutrients from your plants.... now but just feeding them plain water they are going to lack even more nutrients than they need... I would get some half strength nutes in there asap also what kinds of nutes are you using and how are you mixing it? Also what are you using to adjust pH and how are you doing it? Also yes they do have a "gizmo" its called a TDS meter or PPM meter they have them on ebay u should be able to find one for cheap. Looks like you got ripped off already buying that poor excuse for a hydroponic system. YOu could have built one yourself by going to walmart for half the price and it would probably work better too. Also please stop calling it hydro juice its pissing me off lol... call it nutrients,nutes, nutrient solution or just refer to it as your res.

To be honest, I don't know what's in the nutes. They're simple called Grow, Bloom and Micro. It's all in little premeasured packets for the quantity of water you're suposed to put into the res. I figured it would do well enough until I could decide what, if anything, would be better. It automatically balances the water to 6.5, and I thought this would be fine since the site I'd done the most hudro reading on said that was the area you should shoot for.
I have this stuff called "ph up" and "ph down". I simply follow the directions for their use. So far, I've only used the down.
That's good. I rather thought I'd read about something like that somewhere along the way. I'll have to see if I can afford one. Thanks you.
Actually, the setup works rather well so far. I've just had a minor problem that any beginer could have. And, truth be told, I am not at all sure I could have built my own. I'm not very mechanically inclined. I thought about it and after researching what all I would need, including tools, and how long it would take, I decided that I would be better off with something made professionally. I'm sure it looks like a piece of crap to someone who's got loads of experience, but for someone who's never managed to grow anything at all under any circumstances, it's pretty nice because it lets me do what I couldn't do otherwise. Once I've gained more experience and understanding about how and why hydorponics works the way it does I might give building my own set up a go. Not right now though.

No doubt you shall castigate me for not knowing everything through reading before making a first attempt at growing, but I know myself well, and I know that I do not learn well from reading. I need to be doing a thing in order to truely understand the process. Certainly I need the liturature, but simply reading it will not let me absorbe it. I must be able to put it into practice right after reading, or even while I'm reading for it to make complete sense and to totally sink in.

So, I have my little setup, and I'm learning the tricks of the trade on it.
I've seen it refered to in that maner many places. It seemed to be what some people, at least, call it, so I followed suit. I can't imagine why that should be pissing you off. Does the term "juice" hove some sort of
connotation that I'm unaware of?

I'm no expert, nor am i an experienced grower but i'm thinking that your "froth" is algae due to the unused pots exposing the water. From what i've learned so far, you need to keep your water between 68-72 (although i have read a few posts that say 65-75 but I'll stick with the one that has less room for error) and let absolutely no light into the res.

As far as the algae on the rockwool, I have no clue on how completely get rid of it. But, as i understand rockwool is very suseptable to algae, so you want it covered from light aswell.

This i could be wrong about but I think a little H202 (hydrogen peroxide, the weak stuff i think its used for cooking, not the stuff for cleaning scrapes and burns) will help clean up res.

hydrogen peroxide

you might find that link useful, for h202
blaze on

Thank you for the link, kill. I'll read it tomorrow. 'Fraid my bed is calling me right now.

I rather suspected that the froth was some sort of algea, but didn't want to say it and have someone call me a retard or something. Hmmm...cover the rock wool cubes as well...didn't think to do that. I'll do it as soon as I get home in the morning. I was leary of pilling the little rocks on the top of them at first cuz the babies were so delicate. I didn't want to chance them getting crushed should one decide that gravity was fun to play with.I'll definitely get it sealed up to light first thing in the morning though.

I read on some other thread on here that the res temp shouldn't get above 68, or something like that. I need to find that thread and reread it.

Thanks for confirming my suspicion about the froth.

First off 6.5 is way too high. 5.8 is the target pH range for hydroponics regardless of what you have read on this site its 5.8!!! Now you have no idea what nutrients you are using either.... thats not very good and could cause you more probs.. the kit you bought on ebay is simply a rubbermaid from walmart that costs $5 with holes cut in the top(free you can do it yourself with exacto knife) drill one small hole on the side and pop airline in with an airstone attached plug it into an airpump and your done.... not sure what you mean you're not mechanically inclined? You could have used the money you wasted on that to buy yourself some real nutrients. I would recommend General Hydroponics Nutrients for you as they are the easiest to use and give excellent results, also the most popular hydroponics out there. Don't use the ph down and up together in the same res either. How often are you adjusting ph? Also do you have your timer on your pump or is that timer for your light? If you want to get better at this and learn I suggest you listen to me a lot of these people helping you are first time growers themselves leading you in the wrong direction.... this site isnt the greatest for cannabis growing help btw too.

lol....riiighht to a point, concerning advise and the advise given.

but, iv seen some first timers on this board alone do extreamly well, with no issues

anyhow, the nutes you have dont have a lable on the bottle at all??

if i were you id buy the gh or advance nutrient 3 part..(its the same shit)

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First off 6.5 is way too high. 5.8 is the target pH range for hydroponics regardless of what you have read on this site its 5.8!!! Now you have no idea what nutrients you are using either.... thats not very good and could cause you more probs.. the kit you bought on ebay is simply a rubbermaid from walmart that costs $5 with holes cut in the top(free you can do it yourself with exacto knife) drill one small hole on the side and pop airline in with an airstone attached plug it into an airpump and your done.... not sure what you mean you're not mechanically inclined?

You could have used the money you wasted on that to buy yourself some real nutrients. I would recommend General Hydroponics Nutrients for you as they are the easiest to use and give excellent results, also the most popular hydroponics nutes out there they sell them as FloraGrow FloraBloom and FloraMicro all you need to buy is the flora micro and flora bloom you dont need the grow and you can use what is called the "Lucas Formula" its a very popular feeding scheduale growers use. The Lucas formula is this

G-M-B(Grow-Micro-Bloom)
Veg(ml/g) 0-5-10
Flower(ml/g) 0-8-6

So for each gallon if you are vegging you add 5mls of micro and 10mls of bloom.. So if you had an 8 gal res and were vegging u would add 40ml(5ml x 8gallons) Micro and 80ml(10ml x 8gallons) Bloom. Very simple to use and very very very very effective.

Don't use the ph down and up together in the same res either. How often are you adjusting ph? Also do you have your timer on your pump or is that timer for your light? If you want to get better at this and learn I suggest you listen to me a lot of these people helping you are first time growers themselves leading you in the wrong direction.... this site isnt the greatest for cannabis growing help btw too.

It's not a liquid. It's a powder, and they're set up in premeasured bags, and there isn't an ingrediant label, just a name label. I believe them to be very general. Possibly generic even...lol As I said above, I figured they would hold me until I could winnow through all the seemingly thousands of varieties of nutes and all the possible combos to find something simple and not outlandishly expensive, but that still works well.

I don't doubt that there are some who do extremely well from the get go. Some people have natural inclinations. I don't...lol

Actually, the ph info was accuired from a different site. It was here that i learned that it was wrong, and I also learned that the ph affects more than just the sex of the plants.

When I say that I'm not mechanically inclined, I mean that every time I've ever tried to build something I screwed it up. Admitedly, after having come to understand how my setup works I can see that it would be simple to build on my own, retrospective vision is frequently 20/20. But at the time I had no confidence that I would get it right because I didn't grasp the mechanics purely from reading. Now that I've seen all the parts, understand what they do and how they go together, I could probably make one on my own. Provided I didn't have trouble finding all the parts.

Thanks for the recomendation, Radium. I've spent the past two days researching this very thing and had yet to come up with a satisfactory answer. I was expecting to spend another day searching throug seemingly endless possibilities.

I am wondering why the FloraGro isn't needed though.
That certainly does seem simple. Thank you for the formula. I shall think of you when i use it.

So, you seem to be saying that if the ph get's misadjusted so that it's tool low then you have to dump and start over rather than just adding a little ph up? Why is that?

I wasn't adjusting it at all before because I was given to understand that it was perfect where it was. Now that I know better, I adjust it at the outset of a fresh res, be it water or, as I set up today, half strength nutes. From here on I'll check it daily to make sure it's staying in the right area. I expect that I'll be adjusting it as needed. *shrug* how ever often that turns out to be.

The timer is being used for the lights. According to the new process, or technique, or whatever you want to call it, that I'm using the pump is suposed to run all the time, and it's working quite well. Until I began having this algea problem dues to over warm res solution I could practically see them growing before my eyes. Seriously, I could check them in the morning when i got in from work, and then again just before I left to go back to work and I'd see a difference.

Personally, I think that I'm doing smashingly well considering I didn't have the slightest interest in hydroponics two months ago. And the most that I knew about it at that time was that the plants would be growing in nutrient laden water. I've done far better with hydro that soil. I couldn't get more than a seedling using soil. I suspect that i have a black thumb.

What do you guys think of these specs? Is this a good one?
Nutrient Truncheon - EC/PPM/CF Meter

Range: 4 - 52 CF 280 - 3640 ppm (EC x 700); 0.4 - 5.2EC 200-3000ppm(ECx500)
Resolution: 0.1 EC(1 CF); 70ppm 700; 50ppm 500
Accuracy: ±4% of reading
Temperature Compensation: Automatic
Operating Temperature: 0 - 50?(32 - 122?F)
Calibration: Factory Calibrated
Power Source: 3×1.5V Alkaline Batteries (not included)
Auto Sense: Auto On and Auto Off

I'm being honest when I say that this info doesn't mean a hell of a lot to me. I've yet to see someone say exactly what the readings that this thing takes ought to be, and yet I'm told I need one. I mean, how many ppm? What should the EC and CF readings be?

didnt read all the ansers u got but here goes
the second photo shows heat damage from having the lights too close
the nutrient is fine check and corect the PH
bye

most important thing to remember with any electronic tester is to get one of good quality, as far as the readings it shoul have its simple
an EC meter needs to read from0{duh} to around three or 4.0 cf
its the range you will be working in. all comercially available testers work within those ranges
there are beter than others, it always to pay a little extra fo a water proof one, again it always pays to pay a little more for one that auto calibrates and reads temp of sollution!,,, you could always buy a combi that does all this and EC !.... although i like to keep a seperate EC and PH tester, as if one goes i dont loose all control!.
Hanna are good , i have used them for many yrs
ythe combo does EC PH SAL TEMP
or a simpler version for around 50 to 55 euros does EC or PH
try not to buy too cheap! and remember tpo buy calibration fluid and test every week!! the better quality and more expensive the longer it will last! but they are all very sensitive and even the smallest of drops means a re calibration to make sure, nothing worse than working with confidence with a baddly calibrated ph or ec meter,,,,,,
good luck

Thanks, misty. I ref your posts several times, I'm sure.

The info that I'm desperately looking for right now is what all the readings that these meters take should read.

What I mean is, what range in EC is a hydro grower shooting for? and what about PPM? How many PPM should there be in the nute solution? And pure honesty one this point, I don't even know WTF CF is, muchless what the good range is. I don't see any point in getting this equipment if I don't know what the readings mean, and I can't seem to find anything that will really explnain what they are and what the good range is in hydroponics.

sure .. at the first staage { from the point the clone has roots} you need a low EC
best to aleways use osmosis water ! go for an ec of about .5
the EC reads the electroconductivity of the water, this means basically a rough guide to the streangth of the nutrients added!,
at first a low EC is needed
we would be concentrating more on the development of the roots at this stage,as the plant progresses we increase the amount of food very slowlly each day!
buy the second week of grow i tend to have an EC of around .95. at the end of the second week i will be hitting around 1.2. at this point its the time to feed as much as possible
all strains ar diferent in the amount they eat., so we check for signs of burnt tips!!, if this occours back off just a little, and your at the max
the EC will then change when in flowering sollutions
at first 1.4 and then again same proceedure untill she's at max, always very little at a time
!..
the PH for hydro systems is 5.7 ideally
however if you are in rockwool you may need to alter thids to 5.5 to maintain 5.7 at the drainage well i think thats covered it
except that most flowering formulas bring an PK 13 14 to add at later stages of flowering
follow instructions
youll have no probs

That's excellent. I've got a ph meter and a in&out thermometer on the way to me. Now I just need to get one of those others for the nutes and I'll be standing in tall cotton.