Thread: Latewood's Legacy: GH 3-part and CalMag tutorial and discussion

Originally Posted by Racerx

Latewood. Have you ever tried Advanced? The only reason I ask is because I have found its pretty much the same thing as GH...but more concentrated. Ever experienced this or considered it?

Anyways, to date the best stuff we have grown has been from 3 part and Growth Excel (a seaweed foliar spray). If your using all those additives, to keep the PPM low enough you need to skimp on the main nutrients which I really think is all they need. Have you considered dropping the Grow all together? Seems many people these days are doing entire cycles with just micro and bloom. I mean the Micro has more nitrogen then the grow. We use a 2/2/1 for veg of Grow, Micro, and Bloom. Before we were going 1/2/2 for the first 2 weeks of flower. Now we are going directly to 1/2/3. We will stay at 1/2/3 until about week 5 where we will go into 1/2/4 or just 0/2/4. PPM maxes out at about 1800-2000, our water is 220ppm. week 7.5 we drop ppm to 1200. Week 8.5 we drop to water and flushing again. Flush for 4 days.

This is just 3 part. 1 week into flower.

Did you read the beginning of this thread? Or just peruse the values...I thought that I clearly explained my findings/opinions on whether or not to use grow. I only drop grow starting in week 3-4 of flower.

I do not believe in the Lucas method...leaving grow out of the mix. I believe that the Lucas method is best used for folks with limited grow space and/or height restrictions!

all what additives??? my EC is never above 2.1 You use way stronger mix than I do!

"our water is 220ppm." I stated I use ro water...0 ppm, makes a huge difference. **calmag+ replenishes those essential elements that the ro process removes...except now. You have a perfect compliment of those elements. It doesn't add hardly any ppm. Of course.

**I believe that I mentioned this clearly in the article.

dude I am averaging 1/2 -3/4 lb which was my target...I get gooey ass finger hashin buds...that cure into sweet knock your dick in the dirt reefer. That's all I want. perfect 3-4 foot bushes...that bud out bigtime. Last time we figured it out, I was getting .65g per watt. Fair enough I say.

another note...I do not like the 3-2-1/1-2-3 formula either...In veg it is too stringy a plant with a lot of leaves. this is an outdoor formula In flower...good possibility of toxic shock. No I have found my happy photosynthesis, and I shared this info for people who would like a simple fool proof recipe.

In my opinion hardcore heavy feedings just present more problems and potential for failure. I wish you luck with your way...It seems to work for you.

And in closing; Advanced nutrients is an exact copy of General Hydroponics 3-part. They merely repackaged...might've tweaked it a minute bit...but, Advanced has done this with countless other companies products. Do I like Advanced Nutrients. Great stuff. Some new things. Hammerhead 0-11-19; I think. Looks very promising and is more on the money than pk 13-14, and for about 1/3-1/2 the cost!...less phosphates-more potassium....yeah!!! I want a bottle

I have used AN 3-part, Voodoo Juice, Bud Blood (another copy), BigBud, Iguana Juice (crap)...want some? final phase, sensizyme, B-52, Carboload,
ph up/down...probably gh up/down??? maybe a couple more. I have to go look in the nostalgic bottle pile.

Now I hope I wasn't to blunt in my answers, but I have been working all night, and some of your question's were answered above. peace

later folks. lw

I didnt read the whole thread with detail, I was just curious about that stuff. I was not challenging you Latewood, relax. All I was doing was confirming that using just 3 part was the best way to go, and using a lot of additives is taking focus off other aspects of the grow. Understand what I am saying? As far as my questions, I didnt read the whole thing in depth, sorry if I missed that part about ommitting grow, I was curious of your response. I personally use grow all the way through because Micro is more expensive then grow so by ommiting grow, Im using a lot more Micro. I get the grow for very cheap. Ive used Advanced with great results so thats what I continue to use, I aint saying GH is crap, just that I found it to be less concentrated.

PS. I only mentioned the PPM of our water so people know you dont need to use RO and waste a ton of water in the process. Obviously for many people, they do not live in an area where this is possible. I am blessed with perfect water that never develops algae and has no deficiencies. Im not argueing your "forumla", Im stating that all you need is 3 part.....

peace

calmag is only for those using ROwater. In case anyone missed. It is a matter of judgment. I quit using LK in flower once foliage is "apeshit" that is why I cut it out of the everytime recipe.

racerx. we both misunderstood each other. great ideas you have. The point of the thread was...You don't *need any stronger a nute solution...or, You can learn to grow, and this is all you'll need. Got me?

To some this recipe might seem a little light, but I have tried to let the plant be itself as much as possible, and that seems to work out in both a healthy "bounty", and I don't have to worry about toxic shock, and hermies as much, lesser chance of stress.
If you guys can add all that ppm you are doing...goodluck is all I say. I would cut back a bit. I will close this paragraph by saying. I have run an EC of 3.0 and that is around 2200ppm, I've been there.
So Racerx. Challenge away, Just know that I tend to be blunt. no worries. peace Oh yeah. One last time...

**Advanced Nutrients copied General Hydroponics recipe for 3-part. That is common knowledge. Quit thinking that if you buy advanced Nutrients 3-part you are gaining anything. Please! oH yeah. I forgot to list...

Overdrive in the last post...I think. Love it. Have always used it. IN fact I am out, and I am looking to try something different to finish with or a bloom booster to try out...

Any Suggestions. I know all you guys buy those big numbers...right off the bat! What do you use. Here is your chance to tell us; Right here right now! What Bloom enhancer do "you" think is the best on the market.

additives and bloom boosters are great! I just wanted to share you can get great results without buying all the extra stuff. NO frills, Just like General Hydroponics, and Advanced Nutrients** claim!

* I was never implying that with this recipe was the end all recipe. I will say I guarantee that you won't hurt your plants with methodology provided here; If you maintain a consistent ph5.8, that you maintain good growing conditions 70-80 degrees, humidity 38-50%, good air-circulation...etc.

I never claimed anyone would grow the biggest baddest-Ass potentist...plant they everrrrrrr grew. Then Again. Maybe

Much love Latewood .
4 buckets + your recipe + 2000w. = 3lbs. Even w/ 3 of the 4 suposedly being a lower yielding strain . 3/4 lb. ea. just like you claim .
Just got my new turkey baster too for the next go round .
Peace man
Crispi

Latewood, to be honest I never let it get past 1800ppm anymore because I do not see a difference in 1800 and 2000 and why use more nutrients...but the plant took it with no burn and a GREAT yield. It was however very large. You must also remember that 200 of that is my water so the amount of nutrients is not as much as it seems at first glance. Anyways, after this next grow I am working with Blueberry and Grapefruit and I can promise you I will be doing much much lower EC numbers. I have found our White Widow to be incredibly strong and hungry, but I am positive the lower yielding Grape and Blue will not eat nearly as much. That will be nice because right now we spend over $200 in nutrients per complete cycle, just for the one hydro room. And we get an awesome deal on the stuff. Thats almost 2.5 gallons of Micro, 2.5 gallons of bloom, and around 1.5 gallons of grow. If we are using Big Bud (which I like and is the only additive I use besides Hygrozyme) then its another $100 a grow for a gallon. $100 in Hygrozyme per complete cycle as well. Finally we have pH up and pH down (now this is one place I will argue to to the tooth, but AN has a far more concentrated pH then GH. It takes 5 drops to lower our 20 gallon reservoir by over a half point. It takes a tablespoon of GH pH down to do the same. I havent found a difference in holding the pH). pH up and down is another $20. So every complete cycle on one room, we are spending $420-$450 on nutrients. If I can get rid of the Bug Bud and run a lower PPM/EC and get the exact same results...well then I am freaking sold Latewood cause that could save me a couple hundred dollars a cycle which is 4 times a year so thats like nearly $1000 I could a year.

I guess I am simple in that I see the obvious visual correlation between gigantic huge healthy plants and large amounts of nutrients. I am worried about not using enough nutrients and feeling like I should have added more and I wasted time because I didnt. Know that feeling? If only I could get another grow of White Widow and try lower EC levels and compare.

PS. I have never found any of those small expensive AN additives to do jackshit but spend my cash; except Growth Excel. Have you used Growth Excel Latwood? If you have not, then that is the #1 thing you need to use (unless you use something that is of course very similar, it is a seawood extract foliar spray). Spray every morning when the lights come on. Results are fantastic. I dont use it on my hydro because the growth rate is too uncontrollable, but on our soil grows it works absolute wonders.

well 1st shovlboy If you are suing diamond nectar and it contains fulvic acid...etc...OMIT liquid Karma.

racer. I grow huge plants, bro generally I shoot for 4-5 feet tall, but I have a lot of piks, even with this recipe that reached or would've reached all the way to the ceiling...Damn Sativs

this recipe allows you to gain control over your grow and the plant foliage still goes crazy.

Originally Posted by BlazeIdo

unknown bagseed clone but delicious. Final product in Avatar. under 400 watt MH for now. Will flower under 600 hortilux. RO water 0ppm (Have RO/DI filter). AC in room, temps are 73 on Scrog screen with great airmovement under and over screen. 900ppm with your 1-1-1 recipe 5 gallon bubble bucket. been topping off with calmag + 3ml per gallon. Water temps 65 degrees (coolworks chiller). PH steady at 5.8 with homemade doser.

Nice job...Now imagine that same canopy filled with sticky buds.

A Note. RacerX made a suggestion about the higher bloom ratios. I thought about it, and decided to add an extra baster of bloom to some of mine in flower. For those of you that have followed along...that would be 0-1-3
I don't want to add more micro as racerx and his compadre, because that is a lot of nitrogen...I think we have plenty nitrogen! So Let's kick it up a notch with an extra portion of bloom. !!!Warning!!! DO NOT do this in early flower. You should be at least in week 3-4f; Where you really start to kick in the higher ppm value. If you choose to.

Nothing wrong with staying with the original recipe, and grow nice healthy stuff like BLazeIdo has

this thread is starting to become fun. Peace

p.s. Blaze...before I posted I read something about some type of sucanat sugar??? I don't know. perhaps someone else, but beware. If you must add something. Use something proven that will enhance the grow.

I am hoping that now that we have a few people that have tried this simple grow recipe, and founded it. I am going to try and coax Zandor into giving us some simple tips to beef up our buds. Peace Zandor Hint...hint...

If this same recipe were to be used in a larger rez (lets say 10-20 gallons). How often would the rez changes have to be performed then? Would the ratio of time to water be equal when increased? hope this makes sense. Peace

Originally Posted by Cyclonite

Thats kinda like just adding a flower booster in a way isn't it? Should I use caution when adding a booster to the 0-1-3 ratio?

Yes it is. I wouldn't go to 0-1-3 if I was using a bloom booster. I would stay with basic formula. you were right. I am upping the Bloom as an alternative to adding a bllom additive.

I am ordering hammerhead pk9-18 I think...

yup. 1 for 5 gallon. 1-2 in 10 gallon...2 in 18 gallon.

as far as how often you change using bigger rez...If you want change your solution less frequently. You can top off with water up to one full replacement of solution. Once you have replaced 100% of solution. Refresh with new batch.

i.e. if in 5 g bucket. once you add 5 gallons. you have to change.

if you have 10 gallon rez...then you can top-off 10 gallons of ph'd water.

I agree that 600 watt lights put out almost the same lumens as 1000 watt lamps, but the price is very close also...So alot of growers...myself included prefer to pay the little bit extra for the extra lumens.

I like the consideration of heat issue that racerx brought up. I use my old magnet ballast to enhance heat temps on the cooler winter nights.

As a matter of fact...You could heat your living space or a cooler room with the hot air you vent from grow space. Peace

Latewood, when you say top off with calmag or LK. You mean just to top off with RO water at a PH of 5.8? And only top it when the res gets low? Then when I change the water in my res, top it off with LK..ect.?

Latewood, when you say top off with calmag or LK. You mean just to top off with RO water at a PH of 5.8, with CALMAG? And only top it when the res gets low? Then after I change the water in my res, top it off with LK..ect.?

I'm not latewood, but yes that is what he recommends with this recipe. So mix your initial nutes, then after your girl has drank some water, mix a gallon of water with calmag or LK depending on which week it is, Ph balance and refill rez to initial fill line. I do this until I have refilled with the exact amount of water I started with then I change my Rez). Easy Cheezy.(if its earlier in the grow the plant might not drink as much water so use your judgment) Stop using LK and Calmag after week 5 in flowering. Peace

Originally Posted by BlazeIdo

I'm not latewood, but yes that is what he recommends with this recipe. So mix your initial nutes, then after your girl has drank some water, mix a gallon of water with calmag or LK depending on which week it is, Ph balance and refill rez to initial fill line. I do this until I have refilled with the exact amount of water I started with then I change my Rez). Easy Cheezy.(if its earlier in the grow the plant might not drink as much water so use your judgment) Stop using LK and Calmag after week 5 in flowering. Peace

this is a perfect explanation. You may still use calmag if you use rowater, and need to replenish the calcium magnesium, But not necessarily. Peace

I changed bloom formula to 1 part G, 1/2 part M, 3parts Bloom...Whooooyou should a seen'em jump.

I have to give racer...I believe some credit for making me look over the formulas more closely. If you notice Grow has way more potassium "K" than Micro, and now that I am mixing my own commercial nutes from powder...I learned a thing or 2. I always knew you didn't want alot of phosphates after initial dose at beginning of flower. Well LOOK at Micro. Mostly Nitrogen and Phosphates. OK you need that, we all know we want Potassium. so look again at your bottles.

You want to cut down nitrogen in flower...right? rethink.

So that is my new deal, and I got girth, crystals quicker than I have experienced before.

Thanks again Zandor. He helped me realize where I was off a bit.

So how many of you are using this formula now? Let's tweak it!!!

P>S> I got some AN hammerhead 0-9-18 Watch out.

Originally Posted by latewood

I changed bloom formula to 1 part G, 1/2 part M, 3parts Bloom...Whooooyou should a seen'em jump.


P>S> I got some AN hammerhead 0-9-18 Watch out.

Latewood, thank you for all the experience and insight! I now know exactly what my little girls need.

For me tho, I have had terrible results with liquid karma. From the terrible brown color of the stuff running down the edge of the bottle and staining everything it touches, to creating terrible bacteria and fungus in my bubbler pots.

After using it for only 2-3 days, the bubbler water was awfully rank smelling and had tons of algae and bacteria forming on the sides of the bucket. Im not sure if i just got an old product or anybody else are having these results, but anyway..

What could you recommend for a supplament top-off instead of LK? I was thinking maybe Earth Juice Catalyst? Its alot cheaper and seem like similiar products, but im not sure whats all in it. What would you recommend to get the same growth power but without having to use Liquid Karma?

Also, how do you intend to use the Hammerhead product from Advanced nutrients? Would that work in place of LK?

Well. Something else was wrong. I agree that LK is kinda nasty, but that is from the humic acid and such...

advanced Nutrients recommends B-52, Botanicare has Sea Blast. Just make sure that you have a b-vitamin w/sea kelp, similar to LK. LK is a catalyst. so start your search there.

I would have to look up, but isn't floralicious a catalyst by GH???

Earth Juice is gonna be just as nasty as the next one...believe me these particular additive are nasty...Good luck let me know how it goes.

Originally Posted by Hightimes817

Hey Latewood, yeah- something else was definately wrong. My little babies were nice and healthy, above 5-6 nodes and climbing, when it all went downhill. Even with constant water changes, i still got nasty bacteria and awful smells..

One thing I didnt consider was the temperature of the water. If i was hypothetically using just a 5 gallon bucket, that is non recircilating with a simple airstone, is cooling the water absolutely critical? I drilled holes at the top of the bucket for the airlines so it would be air tight, so the only thing I can think of is the temps.

How would people that grow in this way be able to cool their temps? I know a simple solution would be dropping some frozen bottle waters in there, but honestly.. whats the deal? I started to use this method about 2 months ago and have nothing to show for it. The plants drooped until their death

Im prolly the only first time grower that tried hydro first and is considering going to soil!!

p.s. Blueberry x AK-47 .. is uploading attachments the only way to show photos? http://strike9.com/file.ashx?path=/a...c102f6e582.jpg

I didnt grow it unfortunately

Without knowing more about your growing conditions, I couldn't tell you. I didn't see this post until today. sorry

You need rez temps 65-70 dgrees. Ice water bottles are OK, but why was rez temps so Hot? I have never used anything or done any more than I showed you here. Peace

Took me awhile to read this one!!

Latewood, there was one thing I was confused on. In your first post you stated that you dip a 5 gallon bucket in your 35 gal rez and add nutes. Is the formula given, for each 5 gallons. so if my res was 20 gallons I would add 4 times that amount? Sorry I'm ripped and over analyzing things.

I'm going to pick up gh nutes and liquid karma tomorrow. My seedlings are ready for there first feeding.

Yes that is what it means. Values were for 5 gallons.
So 40ml=160ml. for 20 gallons.

A note about Calmag+ and hardwater GH MicroH.

If you end up with GH 3-part, part =MicroH, the difference between regular GH Micro, is that Hardwater formula has less Calcium-magnesium in the formula. so don't forget you calmag+...Your plants use alot of these 2 elements.

Glad to here it's working well. Unfortunately latewood is no longer here. He is over at another site now. I can't remember the name , trying to get back there myself. Saw him a month ago and it's is still working. Go by his formula, works great. Sorry to have lost him here!!!!

Originally Posted by LOC NAR on probation

Glad to here it's working well. Unfortunately latewood is no longer here. He is over at another site now. I can't remember the name , trying to get back there myself. Saw him a month ago and it's is still working. Go by his formula, works great. Sorry to have lost him here!!!!

Hey LOC NAR on probation ,
I believe Latewoods at Hygronomics.com I could be mistaken though . This recipe is the shit BTW . I got a 19 oz, plant using it in dwc/drip buckets .
Crispi

LW left?? Know where he went?

Hopefully someone else can answer this, then:
His formula is per 5 gallons. If doing DWC with individual buckets you're not using all 5 gallons...this confused me. I thought he started out saying he does 5 gal. bucket DWC but you can't possibly use all 5..?

Originally Posted by colour

LW left?? Know where he went?

Hopefully someone else can answer this, then:
His formula is per 5 gallons. If doing DWC with individual buckets you're not using all 5 gallons...this confused me. I thought he started out saying he does 5 gal. bucket DWC but you can't possibly use all 5..?

I think he may have just used the 5 gallons as an example (but I don't know). You're right about not being able to use the whole 5 gallons, 3 is more like it. Just stick with the 8-8-8ml per gallon in veg, and adjust for flower.

::EDIT::

I just read back 1 page and got the info i needed. sorry for the redundant post.

::END::

Yeah, i have the same confusion as above.

In the original post he says he has a 35 gallon res, he takes a 5 gallon bucket, dips it into the big res then adds nutes to the 5 gallons...

so 1-1-1 = 8ml-8ml-8ml X 5 gallons = 40ml-40ml-40ml....right?

so does he dump that into his 35 gallon res when he's done mixing?

In veg i have a 13 gallon res with 9 gallons of water...does that mean i should mix:

1-1-1 = 8ml-8ml-8ml X 9 gallons = 72-72-72 ???

I feel as though that may be overkill...

please advise!!!

thanks!
Skeet