Thread: Latewood's Legacy: GH 3-part and CalMag tutorial and discussion

After experimenting for 2 years with Advanced Nutrients/additives...
Botanicare Pure blend Pro/additives...and GH3-part/additives.
I fond this formula works and yields the best; And leaves the roots healthy throughout grow. Goodluck

This should answer a lot of question's you newb's have, and It should save you some money in the longrun.

Since a lot of you get caught up in the Lucas Method. I found this to yield more. However if you have space limitations, just remove the Grow from the formula for smaller plants/yield

START>>>Here is a higher yielding alternative to cut and dried lucas method...
Use grow part in veg 1-1-1 and create high yield bushes=less plants=less trouble, same yield overall.
In flower...use squewed 3-part
.25-1-2 for 1st 4 weeks
weeks 4/5 revert to lucas 0-1-2. Cutting the nitrogen back.
High yield philosphy...Grow bigger, but less...

From 35 gallon rez I dip a 5g bucket and add nutes. I have a turkey baster syringe that sucks up exactly 40 ml if you fill it, So that works perfectly.

5 gallon formula...convert as necessary...

Starting with reverse-osmosis water

Values:
1=8ml,
8ml per gallon
5g=40ml

Veg 1-1-1 = 40-40-40

Flower .25-1-2 = 10-40-80

Finish 0-1-2 = 0-40-80
------------------------------------------------
Veg:40-40-40

add calmag+/3-5ml per gallon **ph5.8 water for topoff's in between nute change... I do not use calmag in nute change solution.
So. I am doing what you are doing except I don't use carboload, I use Liquid Karma/or Seablast/ or some type of Vit-b and sparingly (this stuff cause all kinds of foliage. (Especially under-foliage and I find the too much under growth can causes airflow, and pest problems)

Use LK/Vit-b as I do Calmag+ for topoffs's in between nute change. Alternate topoff solutions each cycle; switching out LiquidKarma for Calmag+ every other week in between your weekly nute change (every 7-10 days).

Example: 3-part, topoff CM+, nute change 3-part, topoff LK, nute change 3-part, topoff CM+...etc, etc.
hope this makes sense.
------------------------------------------------
Flower stage:
Start off with all 3 parts
same value=8ml x's 5 G's=40ml=1 part

Campared to lucas 0-1-2/0-40-80 for flower...
Use .25-1-2/15-40-80 per 5 gallons. You get more mass using the nitrogen at this stage.

It is safe to say this is close to the Advanced Nutrients values, but I simplifiied the recipe by going to GH/lucas values
Actually, they are General Hydroponincs values...right off the bottle. tweak as you need.

In week *4/5 flower. I switch to 0-40-80, and continue alternating CM+/LK topoff process. I topoff at least every other day. this is PK boost time for 8 week finish, I just use clean 0-40-80 until PK transition. so for 9-12 week finish you would hold off on PK/Overdrive, whatever...
Use Overdrive, or high pk formula for a week or 2 prior to final flush.

Flush w/Florakleen.

*week 4/5 of flower. drop ph to 5.4 to make PK nutes more available to plants. increase the ph each week .1... i.e. wk4-ph5.4, wk5 ph5.5, wk6 ph5.6, wk7 ph5.7, wk 8 5.8 finish...Again; If you require longer finishing time, You hold off on this ph transition.
**most of the time, calmag+/LK will buffer the water's ph and you don't have to adjust.

So that is my take...I don't even right it down anymore. I just go with the flow. Sorry about rambling on, but I figured I could go ahead and copy/paste this explanation to my notepad for publication on my hydroponics website.

I invite You to come over to: http://hygronomics.com/forum1 post some hydro question's there, help me build traffic there, and everyone can benefit form the knowledge gained. We can discuss all the hydroponics you want and countless other topics.

Thank you very much for posting this LW. With this 3 part feeding sched along with the CM and the LQ how many res changes do you do??? How long are you veging when you grow fewer plants with this formula? What is a fair yield with this formula with a average yielding strain compared to the Lucas schedule with the same strain? Also, what is your current set up like, as far as buckets, I can't find any recent grow logs or posts where you break down your bucket and light set up.
Adieu

Originally Posted by BlueBear

Thank you very much for posting this LW. With this 3 part feeding sched along with the CM and the LQ how many res changes do you do??? How long are you veging when you grow fewer plants with this formula? What is a fair yield with this formula with a average yielding strain compared to the Lucas schedule with the same strain? Also, what is your current set up like, as far as buckets, I can't find any recent grow logs or posts where you break down your bucket and light set up.
Adieu

let me see...I don't count rez changes...I just follow regimen, until one day I decide to finish the plant and use overdrive, (I mix overdrive with the 3-part and no furhter LK or CM+ at this point which means that I will be going into the last 3-4 weeks topping off with plain water.

From seed I veg* 2 months (normal veg length) vegging less that that is considered a shortened veg period. You get away with 2-4 weeks of veg with clones, because they retain age of mother...Also finish time variies in conjunction with length of veg time...the longer you veg the longer it takes to mature and finish...However, just remember that shorter veg periods cut down on yield considerably
*you don't count seedling/cutting rooting time for veg. veg should be implemented with nutrients when you get at least 4-5 alternating nodes and plant is well rooted.

I don't estimate yields, but I would say that I almost double the lucas method yield w/this formula, maybe??? (plants just get much bigger)...

Well last time I used the simple independent 5 gallon buckets.

I use 5 gallon bucket bubblers...10, 18, and 35 gallon sterlite tubs.
I have a couple aero set-ups I built in the 10 and 18 gallon tubs
I use drip system like in Madman goes aero...built w/10gallon tubs.

I use 45w cfl's and 4' tubes for rooting and seedlings
I use a 400w MH and a 1000w MH for veg..sometimes the plants take off so much that I flower in week 5-6 to keep height down, but I lose some yield...It is a matter of timing my finish so I don't run out of Meds.

In Flower I use a 1000w MH and switch to a 1000w EYE'hortilux hps
I also use a 250w hps to flower smaller potted plants (sweet)

Lastly...I stopped all grow logs at point of proving systems worked. I occasionally show a few piks here and there of plants close to harvest. I plan on showing a couple of the 5 gallon bucket plants...a fantasma(AK-47) and a "fine" tied over NYCD..., but since becoming mod and being out in the open, so to speak, I have chosen the more cautious road...I don't post my rooms or set-ups anymore. (If I grow at all) ala Zandor...You have to brag in moderation due to the current political climate...know what I mean? Vern. Hope this helps you all out. peace

Thanks LW, and yes I understand the log and pics thinggy. Well, it seems like you are truly a mad man with all of your different grow systems.
Do you think that from clone in a DWC with 4 compared to 8 weeks veg the yield is half???
Well catch you around Vern. LOL
Adieu

Originally Posted by latewood

I don't estimate yields, but I would say that I almost double the lucas method yield w/this formula, maybe??? (plants just get much bigger)...

So if one is getting 1 1/2lb per 1K with a basic Lucas mix...your little tweak there should get them up to around 2 1/2ish...by your estimation...of something that is apparently proven...
I'm not trying to be a dick...but that claim seems pretty bold, that's all

Originally Posted by Stuper Star

So if one is getting 1 1/2lb per 1K with a basic Lucas mix...your little tweak there should get them up to around 2 1/2ish...by your estimation...of something that is apparently proven...
I'm not trying to be a dick...but that claim seems pretty bold, that's all

What I can say...My plants are 2wice as big when introduced to flower. Using grow part definitely increases yield, and I would have to say yes, but basically I am telling you what I have seen by growing with 1-1-1...then using a tweaked advanced nutrient formula...trying lucas for 3-4 grows and coming back to this formula which is just what I came up with through a couple years of experimentation with 3-part. I don't see this as a small tweak either...I see adding grow to equal parts of micro and bloom squewes the formula a tremendous amount when you look at the difference in Nitrogen values throughout veg.

Everytime I have used a 1-1-1 in veg with a value of 1=8ml per gallon, I experience another whole level of growth and harvest very large bushes. Of course growing methods and experience play a large part in any grow. I get 1/2-3/4lb easy out of 1-5 gallon bucket with an airstone.
This is with full veg time of at least 8 weeks. You don't get the bigger yields off of taking shortcuts, lol...folks

believe it or not. I am not bragging...I am trying to help. I have tried all kinds of grows both soil and hydro and combined side by sides...Using Lucas Formula, I could never get my yield anywhere near what I expected or wanted to achieve.peace

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! Straightforward, easy to understand and all those GREAT little details you don't think of when first getting directions for things that you have to stop and go find out in the middle of the operation. Love it!!

Baby Geebuzz....did I ever stick my foot down my throat...especially being a noob here
My apologies Latewood I was tired and kinda bitchy when I seemed to fixate on your yield claim. And the kicker is that I was thinking I have seen decent yields with ONLY a 0-1-2ratio mix...but that is not true as I now recollect better. Because the veg was in fact done with 3-2-1. Only the flower stage was done with 0-1-2 (varying between 0-6ml-12ml and 0-8ml-16ml per gal)

no shit ,
thx for the bump bear !!!
sup latewood ?
i guess i inadvertently just did what your thread here explains as far as very very lil grow in begining n quit it completely once we went to 12/12 due to lack of headroom in basement . lol . only 6'2". n it sux . i had just asked bear about the low p/h deal at last cpl. weeks of flowering n what it acomplished . i had read pt. of this thread when it was new a while bk. lol . short term memory n shit .
i am now sworn to farms / n buckets man . i'm having incredible luck n killer yields . 4 buckets is yeilding me what 50-60 plants was using sog in dirt . it takes a lil longer to flower crazy 8-10 headed mutant monsters but man is it worth it !!! like 36in round and 4 1/2 ft. tall . i got up to 17 o's . ea. using independent 5 gal bukts . n thats w/ heat stress n mistakes lol . my current gro is my first almost stress free hydro grow yet n i'm blown away w/ the speed of things . i much appreciate all the helpful input , info and advice that you n bluebaer have had to offer . i'll leave you guys some good karma .
peace
your cuz
crispi

Lw, can this method be applied to soil grow? Or can you receommend a good method for soil? Im not ready to try Hydro just yet. Current nutes i have are GH 3 part, and some Foxfarm flowering nutes, Open Sesame, Beastie Bloomz and Cha-ching. I do plan on getting some Liquid Karma in the near future.

Originally Posted by Stuper Star

Baby Geebuzz....did I ever stick my foot down my throat...especially being a noob here
My apologies Latewood I was tired and kinda bitchy when I seemed to fixate on your yield claim. And the kicker is that I was thinking I have seen decent yields with ONLY a 0-1-2ratio mix...but that is not true as I now recollect better. Because the veg was in fact done with 3-2-1. Only the flower stage was done with 0-1-2 (varying between 0-6ml-12ml and 0-8ml-16ml per gal)

Hey It's OK No worries...I keep thinking of that australian hack'em'up movie...the guy kept telling the soon to hacked up girls..."NO worries"

Anyway...I tried 3-2-1...1-2-3 my 1st grow...I got too much early stretching, and foliage with that formula, and I found that using more nutes...like, 3-2-1 pretty much adds too much foliage...after many trials I have come to the conclusion that more foliage, DOES NOT=more buddage. So try 1-1-1 next time you grow stuperstar.

Now for the record... The 1st cut from 1 plant (mostly tops...), under 1000w horti...in a 5 g bubbler with 1 airstone...using the recipe above...yielded me 4-1/2 Oz. I still have the lower 1/2 of the plant finishing... I might be persuaded to post a couple piks later...You have the right idea, I would just recommend adding nitrogen (G) a little longer.

Originally Posted by Stuper Star

So if one is getting 1 1/2lb per 1K with a basic Lucas mix...your little tweak there should get them up to around 2 1/2ish...by your estimation...of something that is apparently proven...
I'm not trying to be a dick...but that claim seems pretty bold, that's all

Just for fun...I figured out my estimated grams per watt on this last grow...Keep in mind that I could've added 2 more 1/2-3/4lb bushes in the same space...

I already harvested Misty Blue clones in room 1/4lb=4oz=
(4x28.4=1.6+32+80=)113.6grams
I have partially harvested Fantasma(AK-47x) that will yield an estimated 1/2lb...1/2lb=8oz=
(8x28.4 3.2+64+160=)227.2grams
Last plant NYCD will go at least 3/4lb...So 3/4lb+12oz=
(12x28.4=4.8+96+240=)340.8grams...So;
113.6+227.2+340.8=681.6grams. So I got .6816 grams per watt.
Now 1 gram per watt is unbelievable, but attainable and 1/2 gram per watt is commendable...So I am very happy with .6816 grams per watt.

another note: No co2 was used...No ventilation system was used. Grows are in a room with ac and de-humidifier, (I think this de-humid...raised my yield about 2x's) I was having trouble with humidity in the 70%'s and now with humidity ranging around 35-44%...I got much heavier buds.

Once again...I will say that I could've grown 2-4 more plants, equalling a larger yield, but Growing less plants has shown me healthier and much bigger undergrowth, as well as larger yields per plant...Would you be happy if in the last 4 months you grew 1-1/2lbs??? I am. thanks for the excitment...peace Latewood

L3gion...Of course, I posted this in indoor growing because it is the same formula I use for both soil and hydro. peace

BTW, FYI Hydro is easy as you make it!

Originally Posted by latewood

...Would you be happy if in the last 4 months you grew 1-1/2lbs??? I am.

Per 1000W? Well...yes and no I suppose. It is surely better than a swift kick in the ass...but if you're asking for me to comment based on what I am used to seeing per 1K...it's more like 1.5lb per 1K every 9wks, 10 tops...including veg....not 12wks. If I ever went 12wks total, I'd expect 2+lbs.
BUT...absolutely, to have 1.5 when it's all said and done is by no means shabby


PS...the more I think about it, the more I'm willing to try your exact ratios on a test section next time around. So 1/1/1, (by itself?), gives you nice, healthy vegetative growth does it?

Originally Posted by Stuper Star

Per 1000W? Well...yes and no I suppose. It is surely better than a swift kick in the ass...but if you're asking for me to comment based on what I am used to seeing per 1K...it's more like 1.5lb per 1K every 9wks, 10 tops...including veg....not 12wks. If I ever went 12wks total, I'd expect 2+lbs.
BUT...absolutely, to have 1.5 when it's all said and done is by no means shabby


PS...the more I think about it, the more I'm willing to try your exact ratios on a test section next time around. So 1/1/1, (by itself?), gives you nice, healthy vegetative growth does it?

That was a rhetorical question. This grow was from seeds...You couldn't achieve that yield from seedlings in 9weeks.
Now cloning...a different story.

Hey that is cool you want to try values...I think you will like this recipe...especially if your grows are as efficient as you claim...
I on the other hand am a little lazy and don't max out my yields...I know...wasteful, but once I got my regimen perfected I quit worrying about how much...as long as I have my meds.
1-1.2lb every 3-4 months works for me.
Now that doesn't mean I won't preach the correct way to newbs, but I don't want to get burnt out worrying about a few ounces, anymore.

Hay LW, in the last 3/4 weeks of flower when a PK boost comes in do you still use the 0-1-2, and CalMag? Also, have your yields in dirt been close to your bucket yields??
Thanks for any answers.
Adieu

I assume you mean last 3-4 weeks...I don't use booster. that's the point of thread. I do like and will use until I run out; Overdrive the last week or 2 before final phase flush week.

My last 4-5 weeks:
every 5 gallons 40ml micro-80ml bloom-15ml calmag+.
when plants start to finish, and I see amber color trichs, I add Overdrive to mix for a week or 2 and flush a week

In a side by side comparison between dirt and hydro bucket. Yeah right! lol. Not even close enough to compare. Maybe if you had the ability to grow outside in the sun, but not indoors. No way. Not in the same time frame.

If I had a bottle of coolbloom or whatever. I owuld use it. I just would heavy dose anything, just use it to boost ratios.

if you are doing coco and pouring everyday, that is still hydro.

I still don't understand the 1-1-1 and all the ratios yet. I am trying to learn. To make it easier could you please list the brand of nutrients and list their names? I want to follow this exact. Would 2, 6 plant, 6 gal. resavoirs work good with these nutes and a 1k light? Anything else I need in there besides an airstone? I have to keep a better eye on nutes and change water more often.

The brand is GH Fluora 3 part. There 3 different bottles that make up the nutes. In the dosage 1 eaquals 5ML per gallon so with something like 1-1-1 means that you add 5ML of each of the 3 bottles, Micro, Grow and Bloom. If the dosage called for 0-2-2 you would leav out say the grow and add 10ML of micro and Bloom. LW explains it in his first post fairly well. He also uses Cal Mag and Super thrive along with Liquid Karma and pretty much follows the feeding dosage from the bottles.
LW, I would like to know how you feed your plants before they reach the point where they can use the 3 part?
Adieu

1st. although you got the explanation right. I use 8ml per gallon =1 unless otherwise specified. less in veg and a little more in flower.

I use well water 167ppm and add 1/4tsp superthrive per gallon to my well water. After rooting, or when placing seedlings in dwc. I use ro water, and liquid Karma ph 5.8. That way I acclimate the young plants to all the elements of nutrients...Within a week roots are crazy and proceed to
1-1-1=8ml-8ml-8ml of G-M-B of any companies 3-part.
We use General Hydroponics, which is what Advanced Nutrients copied for their 3-part.
So that way, you can buy GH without everybody being sure about what you grow.
make sure you have a way to keep ph consistantly around 5.8.
That, in it self is probably the most important aspect of steering clear of problems in the 1st place.

Latewood , How much Liquid Karma after initial clone rooting and for about how long? Interesting about how the LK acclimates clones for full nutes so early. explain please... Also Just to get this straight, for the flower assuming 8 week finish time, it would be (week 1-4, 3-part .25-1-2, weekly alternating top- offs with LK and calmag+) (week 5, 3-part 0-1-2,weekly alternating top- offs with LK and calmag+) (week 6-7, 3-part 0-1-2, Overdrive, Plain RO topoffs) (week 8 flush). If Overdrive is not used should the Top offs with LK and Calmag+ still be stopped for the last 2 weeks of nutes? Kinda confused on that. In your opinion will this formula work better with or without the overdrive. Its been back and forth.

[/QUOTE]My last 4-5 weeks:
every 5 gallons 40ml micro-80ml bloom-15ml calmag+.
when plants start to finish, and I see amber color trichs, I add Overdrive to mix for a week or 2 and flush a week

[/QUOTE]

Is the 15ml of calmag+ a topoff value?

Latewood. Have you ever tried Advanced? The only reason I ask is because I have found its pretty much the same thing as GH...but more concentrated. Ever experienced this or considered it?

Anyways, to date the best stuff we have grown has been from 3 part and Growth Excel (a seaweed foliar spray). If your using all those additives, to keep the PPM low enough you need to skimp on the main nutrients which I really think is all they need. Have you considered dropping the Grow all together? Seems many people these days are doing entire cycles with just micro and bloom. I mean the Micro has more nitrogen then the grow. We use a 2/2/1 for veg of Grow, Micro, and Bloom. Before we were going 1/2/2 for the first 2 weeks of flower. Now we are going directly to 1/2/3. We will stay at 1/2/3 until about week 5 where we will go into 1/2/4 or just 0/2/4. PPM maxes out at about 1800-2000, our water is 220ppm. week 7.5 we drop ppm to 1200. Week 8.5 we drop to water and flushing again. Flush for 4 days.

This is just 3 part. 1 week into flower.

1.

Originally Posted by BlazeIdo

Latewood , How much Liquid Karma after initial clone rooting and for about how long?



2. Interesting about how the LK acclimates clones for full nutes so early. explain please...



3. Also Just to get this straight, for the flower assuming 8 week finish time, it would be (week 1-4, 3-part .25-1-2, weekly alternating top- offs with LK and calmag+)


(week 5, 3-part 0-1-2,weekly alternating top- offs with LK and calmag+)


(week 6-7, 3-part 0-1-2, Overdrive, Plain RO topoffs) (week 8 flush). If


4. Overdrive is not used should the Top offs with LK and Calmag+ still be stopped for the last 2 weeks of nutes? Kinda confused on that.



In your opinion will this formula work better with or without the overdrive. Its been back and forth.

1.[color=blue]I use it as staed in the original text of this thread. 40ml per 5g[/blue]

2.[color=blue]read the Liquid Karma label...then get back to me. the label should answer your Q[/blue]

3.[color=blue]week1...veg nutes1-1-1, week2-3...25-1-2,
week4-7...0-1-2. add to 0-1-2 week 6 and/or 7. I use it one week. no LK or calmag after week 5 top-off with ph'd water. [/blue]

4.[color=blue]NO on the Liquid K or calmag...don't need it! overdrive is opitonal...it is nice the way it draws the oils out, but is not necessary for a healthy harvest[/blue]