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Aug-07-2008, 03:10
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Thanks very much to everyone who's stopping by. I'm glad to see others are interested in fog. And oldmac, wow, thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge and photos. I'm going to read that more carefully when I'm more awake, but for now I've got to get this posted and get to bed.
The fog units came today and I’m doing a little testing. I planned on putting one in a veg res and one in a bud res, but I have doubts that one singe-head unit will be enough. I’m hoping to get away with putting a unit or two in the chamber with the roots instead of building a little pumping machine like the $300 Nutramist thing. As I mentioned though, I’m worried about temperature, and I think a separate pumping machine would solve the heat issue. So some things I’m testing are: 1) Will it make fog rise 14 inches above it an a largish container. 2) Will it fill up a container enough to make fog spill out an opening in the top. 3) Amount of time needed to fill up a container. 4) Temperature swing in reservoir. I made a float for it from some packing that came with my T-5 fixture. The fogger is sitting in a 3” net pot. I had to cut a lip in the circle to get the fogger low enough for the proper amount of liquid to cover the sensor. The sensor is supposed to be 1-2 cm below the surface which is roughly 3/8-3/4 inch. The unit shuts off if the water gets too low. The first thing I tested was fog output at various water levels above the sensor. I assumed that the closer the surface was to the sensor the greater the fog output would be, but I was wrong. I wasn’t being scientific or anything. I’m just going by what I perceived, and it seems like there’s a little more fog when the water level is closer to 2 cm rather than 1 cm or less. I didn’t realize it would splash so much. You could put a couple of these in a small cheapo aerocloner and you wouldn’t have to use air stones for the bubbles. I’m seriously thinking about trying this. I’ve read several places that fogging alone is not really good for rooting cuttings until they show some roots. The dry fog just doesn’t keep em moist enough. If I recall correctly though, the people that have been saying this have been pumping their fog into the chamber instead of leaving a unit splashing in the res. If I did this, once the clones take root I would like a way to lower the res level or stop the splashing on the roots somehow. Seems like the splashing would defeat the purpose of a dry fog. I’m testing in an 8 gallon container with about 1.5 gal of water, but the ones I plan on using in the grow are more than 3 times that size. Does this mean that it will take more than 3 times as long to fill up the bigger containers with fog, or does it mean I’m kinda silly for not just testing in the final container? For now I’m going to play dumb and assume the bigger container will eventually fill up. One thing I found out pretty quick is that you don’t want to have the cord positioned directly above the transducer (the water smasher disk-shaped thingee). I know, duh, but it just didn’t dawn on me until I noticed that not much fog was coming out for some reason. The instant I moved it I noticed an increase in fog production. I’ve been running this thing now for 1 1/2 hr and I’m done for tonight. By the time I get this posted it will be my birthday. I’m a bit surprised and pleased about the temperature. The res was 84 degrees at the start and only went up to 86. Not too shabby, maybe we can handle it, especially since the res will be recalculating and the test was not. I wonder if it would be safe to assume that for each head added to a situation like this you could expect an increase of 2 degrees. One thing I had not thought about before was the fact that the transformer will add heat to the grow as well. A 3 head unit may have an advantage in this department. I can probably keep it outside of at least the flowering area, but at the end the transformer was 121 degrees. Hmmm, do you think I could wire one transformer to run 2 or more units?
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PLEASE STOP BY MY FOGGING THREAD  Everything I say in this forum is completely true, and should be construed as fact. I do smoke weed, and sometimes I eat it. Not only that I sell it, along with every other drug known to man and a few that aren't. Everything I do is 100% illegal, and I condone others breaking the law. All pictures that I post are not taken from the internet, but are of my own illegal operation. Also, I speed and don't come to complete stops at stop signs.
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Aug-07-2008, 03:13
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These photos are a time lapse from ignition to one minute.
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PLEASE STOP BY MY FOGGING THREAD Everything I say in this forum is completely true, and should be construed as fact. I do smoke weed, and sometimes I eat it. Not only that I sell it, along with every other drug known to man and a few that aren't. Everything I do is 100% illegal, and I condone others breaking the law. All pictures that I post are not taken from the internet, but are of my own illegal operation. Also, I speed and don't come to complete stops at stop signs.
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Aug-07-2008, 03:20
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These photos are at 8, 15, 30, 60 and 90 minutes. I never really noticed much of a change after one hour. Will it fill up a 29 gallon tub in 3 hours? The good news is the container appears to be mostly filled up. I never really saw fog coming from the lid that was closed except for a tiny crack. Once the lid was open though the fog rolled out a bit.
__________________
PLEASE STOP BY MY FOGGING THREAD Everything I say in this forum is completely true, and should be construed as fact. I do smoke weed, and sometimes I eat it. Not only that I sell it, along with every other drug known to man and a few that aren't. Everything I do is 100% illegal, and I condone others breaking the law. All pictures that I post are not taken from the internet, but are of my own illegal operation. Also, I speed and don't come to complete stops at stop signs.
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Aug-07-2008, 03:24
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I know, wow, a lid. Well these photos show the progression and they are also taken at 8, 15, 30, 60 and 90 minutes.
Comments please. Goodnight.
__________________
PLEASE STOP BY MY FOGGING THREAD Everything I say in this forum is completely true, and should be construed as fact. I do smoke weed, and sometimes I eat it. Not only that I sell it, along with every other drug known to man and a few that aren't. Everything I do is 100% illegal, and I condone others breaking the law. All pictures that I post are not taken from the internet, but are of my own illegal operation. Also, I speed and don't come to complete stops at stop signs.
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Aug-07-2008, 03:28
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Quote:
__________________
PLEASE STOP BY MY FOGGING THREAD Everything I say in this forum is completely true, and should be construed as fact. I do smoke weed, and sometimes I eat it. Not only that I sell it, along with every other drug known to man and a few that aren't. Everything I do is 100% illegal, and I condone others breaking the law. All pictures that I post are not taken from the internet, but are of my own illegal operation. Also, I speed and don't come to complete stops at stop signs.
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Aug-07-2008, 05:16
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2 fer
Opie said;
"Hmmm, do you think I could wire one transformer to run 2 or more units?" Probably, they use standard wallwarts. And they may be shippng the same one that they ship with the fountain foggers which also support an LED display. But if it's running that hot... Just look on the mandatory label for the max current rating and divide by two.  Then check the modules appetite. Doubt that a small voltage drop would cause 'em to drop out of oscillation. Don't know enough about how they work, yet, to guess if it would affect droplet size. If so, it's a "feature". Makes 'em tunable. Love the float.  Gonna steal it.Regards Weeze
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Aug-07-2008, 18:46
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Hey oldmac, I was wondering about those root guards. Are those the round things in the photo that look like smoke detectors? I was thinking about this problem too. Do those do a good job of keeping roots out? Also you may know about something else I was wondering, does the transducer kill roots if they get too close? And if so, how close is too close?
Maybe I missed it, but did you say how often the misting nozzles would be on? Did you get a chance to think about my question regarding them washing down the roots? I was wondering if this would defeat the effects of dry fog, or maybe lessen the effects, since the roots would be getting less air. I understand the redundancy idea. Along those lines I was thinking about frequent power outages (something about being at the end of the line), and of course I can't have my roots sitting in nothing but air for 8 hours. To solve that and other issues I thought of being able to adjust the level of the reservoir that the roots are in. I would keep only the bottom inch or 2 of roots in water at all times. There is another reservoir so that the root res can recirculate, oh I don't know, maybe for 2 minutes out of every 15. Of course there would be air stones in both, and probably a powerhead in the 2nd res. So what do you think of that redundancy idea? The large tap roots have all the nutrients they want, yet the others never get washed down and should grow to be very fine and hairy. What did you think of my test. The container filled up pretty well, but maybe I should use 2 units in my veg res and a 3-head unit in my flower res. It would be great though if I could get away with 1 unit in veg and 2 in flower. Anyways, I certainly appreciate you stopping by. Anything you choose to answer or talk about would be wonderful.
__________________
PLEASE STOP BY MY FOGGING THREAD Everything I say in this forum is completely true, and should be construed as fact. I do smoke weed, and sometimes I eat it. Not only that I sell it, along with every other drug known to man and a few that aren't. Everything I do is 100% illegal, and I condone others breaking the law. All pictures that I post are not taken from the internet, but are of my own illegal operation. Also, I speed and don't come to complete stops at stop signs.
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Aug-07-2008, 18:48
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Quote:
__________________
PLEASE STOP BY MY FOGGING THREAD Everything I say in this forum is completely true, and should be construed as fact. I do smoke weed, and sometimes I eat it. Not only that I sell it, along with every other drug known to man and a few that aren't. Everything I do is 100% illegal, and I condone others breaking the law. All pictures that I post are not taken from the internet, but are of my own illegal operation. Also, I speed and don't come to complete stops at stop signs.
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Aug-07-2008, 19:59
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Light sabre?
De nada.
I owe ya for my education. About burning the roots. I have a fogger in my koi pond. When the Lilly pads float across the emitter it burns track in them. Here's a snap of a lilly pad that got in it's way.  Sliced it like a laser. Does not seem to bother the guppies.  Bet the little stoners are suckin' on the blue lotus rootlets.  Mebee try a bold experiment. Finger dat fogger! If you finger no like, roots no like. Keep talkin' to yo'sef. Lotta lurkers listnin'. Regards WZ
__________________
Plants do things for a reason.....they don't just decide one day to get root rot or act funny..... - Weedhound  "Their perception is their reality" - Irydyum "Gotta keep in mind that people and pot plants are very much alike, how well and when you finish is based on genetics. - O. M. My attitude? Deliberate Indifference!  -Thanks D.H.http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-pro...anted-one.html
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Aug-08-2008, 14:19
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Thanks for that photo, and wow, I didn't realize the damage it could do. Maybe I'm a sissy but I've been reluctant to stick my finger near the transducer. People say it hurts, but what is pain anyway? Is it real? It's just electrical impulses. That can't be real horrible. Besides, pain is such a rush. It let's you know you're alive. I was certainly alive when I slid the throttle cable under my thumbnail. OK, so back to work on the weed guard for my fogger.
__________________
PLEASE STOP BY MY FOGGING THREAD Everything I say in this forum is completely true, and should be construed as fact. I do smoke weed, and sometimes I eat it. Not only that I sell it, along with every other drug known to man and a few that aren't. Everything I do is 100% illegal, and I condone others breaking the law. All pictures that I post are not taken from the internet, but are of my own illegal operation. Also, I speed and don't come to complete stops at stop signs.
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Aug-08-2008, 14:21
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mmmm, Blue Lotis. Have you consumed that perfectly legal plant?
__________________
PLEASE STOP BY MY FOGGING THREAD Everything I say in this forum is completely true, and should be construed as fact. I do smoke weed, and sometimes I eat it. Not only that I sell it, along with every other drug known to man and a few that aren't. Everything I do is 100% illegal, and I condone others breaking the law. All pictures that I post are not taken from the internet, but are of my own illegal operation. Also, I speed and don't come to complete stops at stop signs.
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Aug-08-2008, 16:34
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Opie;
Really nice experiment! For only a single head unit you got pretty good output. You could have saved your self some "rube goldberg" building of a float if you bought a bouy. Consider it when you go to a three head unit, get it with the bouy, it gives you automatic water depth for the transducer. Which you should change to the teflon coated ones, they do not clog up so easy. Most builders of pond foggers, that use a resevoir, say that the fog tends "lay" on the water and most use some sort of fan to push or pull the fog to the top of the lid. I considered the use of plastic tube hooked to a vacum pump to raise it. As to my system, and the possible wash down issue, we need to looked at what others have come up with. The Dominaero as a grow machine uses both aeroponic spiners and 3 head pond fogger for ultra-sonic fog. The Ultra Mist applied to their grow system is an Ebb & Flow with a three head ultra-sonic fog pumped in separately. No one is really using ultra-sonic fog on it's own. I simply made my reduntant system one notch down the evolution chain to aeroponics (pressure mister system). The pressure mister system on my machine is calculated to run 3-6 seconds (every 1/2hr). The actual time is dependent on the time it takes to pressurize the sytem after turn on. Most of these systems are set-up as "pressurized" systems and the flow to the nozzles is controlled by soleniod, where I'm using the "turn the pump on" method. The root guards are "inlet suction spa covers" and I used them because I'm inroducing fog towards the bottom of the grow tray, plus they looked so cool.
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Aug-08-2008, 16:59
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Those nutramist foggers are crap, I bought one for some house plants, and it worked great, till the water ran low, It has a sensor that is supposed to shut it off when this happens. However it did not and it burnt out. I boaught the cheap ones off of ebay for 15 bucks each and those still work. The nutramist was like 45 dollars and it broke ina week or so and they didnt wana exchange it or nuthin. I would say go with the cheaper versions that have replacement parts and stuff. Ebay hass em for realy cheap.....
And the foggers ocilate at sub sonic speeds that is what does the dsamage not temperature, do not stick your finger in the disk, it is irratating then hurts then painfull. Basicaly you are demoliculizing your finger so dont do it, I know some one who held his finger in ther for a long time, now he has no feeling in that finger forever.. Last edited by MadSativa; Aug-08-2008 at 17:04.
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Aug-08-2008, 17:40
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Howdy MS
Quote:
And, the "Poke 'em witta finger", was a joke of course. Dat sucker would emulsify your manual digit! Was about to buy one till I read your post. $45?!  ! But, as he said earlier. The El-cheapos droplet size exceeds 5 microns. Above 5 microns I'd save some dough and use a mister instead. They clog on occasion, but they don't fry. For me, this is all still theory. In practice, I just drop in 2 airstones and a small, submarine, water pump in a wastebasket. Don't even use a mister with the Bubbaponics units. Just jam the 1/4" water hoses in the sides of the net-pot and let 'er drip. Works well, so far... When I get a few jars of meds ahead, I'll work on points for style. Thanks for the input, made me think. Weezard "In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not!"
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Aug-08-2008, 18:52
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More tests
I put one fog unit in my 29 gal, 16" tall container that I intend to use for my budding res. As I feared, the fog would not rise to the top. It would only rise about an inch or 2 above the surface of the water, even after 90 minutes. Dad gummit. So I put in another fogger. Same thing, with perhaps the level 1/2 inch higher and a slightly denser fog, but barely any noticeable difference. I thought that maybe if they run a long time they will eventually fill up a big container. No such luck. I turned off the foggers to see how long it takes for the fog do dissipate, or disappear, and it was much faster than I expected. In this tub the fog was gone in about 15 seconds. That's why the container will never fill to the top.
The fog made it to the top of an 8 gallon container but it wasn't very dense at the top. Seeing the very small amount of change from doubling the output, I'm certain that the fog won't rise to the top, even with a 3 head unit, and maybe not even with a 6 or 10 head unit. So I walked a couple feet and noticed how violently the fog swirled around in the container from the slight change in air flow, and good size wisps made it to the top. It was then it struck me that a fan is going to be the key if I don't want to buy a 20-head unit. I put a short hose over the top and gently blew through the other end, and wallah - the tub filled with fog. I also tested if the action from an air stone would circulate the fog enough, but there was barely any change. So now I'm either going to make a separate pumping machine like the Nutramist ones, or cut a hole in the middle of the lid and have a small computer fan blow straight down. The pumping machine would solve the heat issue, but I'm not real worried about that after testing in a bigger reservoir. The water temp did not fluctuate from 84.5 degrees, even when using 2 units. So, the light. Should I just put a bit of black silicon tape over the red LED, or not worry about it affecting the roots? Another issue solved with a pumping machine. The 2nd photo is after 1/2 hr, and the 3rd is using 2 foggers, after the few seconds it took for my camera to turn on after blowing through the tube. The fog was actually a little thicker near the top when I blew.
__________________
PLEASE STOP BY MY FOGGING THREAD Everything I say in this forum is completely true, and should be construed as fact. I do smoke weed, and sometimes I eat it. Not only that I sell it, along with every other drug known to man and a few that aren't. Everything I do is 100% illegal, and I condone others breaking the law. All pictures that I post are not taken from the internet, but are of my own illegal operation. Also, I speed and don't come to complete stops at stop signs.
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Aug-08-2008, 19:05
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Quote:
And for the disks, I'm using these from nutramist. I know the ones at fogponics are cheaper (price going up soon), but the nutramist ones are the only ones I can find that say something like: Our aeroponic foggers offer the exclusive benefit of having teflon coated ultrasonic transducers, specifically designed for use with dissolved nutrient solutions, so they help prevent salt buildup which causes premature failure. Do you know if the fogponics disks are essentially the same thing as the nutramist ones? Both are teflon coated.
__________________
PLEASE STOP BY MY FOGGING THREAD Everything I say in this forum is completely true, and should be construed as fact. I do smoke weed, and sometimes I eat it. Not only that I sell it, along with every other drug known to man and a few that aren't. Everything I do is 100% illegal, and I condone others breaking the law. All pictures that I post are not taken from the internet, but are of my own illegal operation. Also, I speed and don't come to complete stops at stop signs.
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Aug-08-2008, 19:08
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Quote:
__________________
PLEASE STOP BY MY FOGGING THREAD Everything I say in this forum is completely true, and should be construed as fact. I do smoke weed, and sometimes I eat it. Not only that I sell it, along with every other drug known to man and a few that aren't. Everything I do is 100% illegal, and I condone others breaking the law. All pictures that I post are not taken from the internet, but are of my own illegal operation. Also, I speed and don't come to complete stops at stop signs.
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Aug-08-2008, 19:12
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Quote:
That's good info about the guys finger. Ouch.
__________________
PLEASE STOP BY MY FOGGING THREAD Everything I say in this forum is completely true, and should be construed as fact. I do smoke weed, and sometimes I eat it. Not only that I sell it, along with every other drug known to man and a few that aren't. Everything I do is 100% illegal, and I condone others breaking the law. All pictures that I post are not taken from the internet, but are of my own illegal operation. Also, I speed and don't come to complete stops at stop signs.
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Aug-08-2008, 19:22
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Just had a thought.
Quote:
Have you tried setting a 3"netpot upside down over the emitter to protect the roots? Cheap n easy WZ
__________________
Plants do things for a reason.....they don't just decide one day to get root rot or act funny..... - Weedhound "Their perception is their reality" - Irydyum "Gotta keep in mind that people and pot plants are very much alike, how well and when you finish is based on genetics. - O. M. My attitude? Deliberate Indifference! -Thanks D.H.http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-pro...anted-one.html
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Aug-08-2008, 19:31
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I thought about that, but roots grow through net pots. I'm thinking something like tupperware or yogurt container upside down over the fogger. It would have to be just barely above the water, but then seems like roots would still get to it. Hmmm, maybe if it was real wide the roots would have to grow a long ways to get around it, or I know, I'll make a pumping machine like the Nutramist ones.
__________________
PLEASE STOP BY MY FOGGING THREAD Everything I say in this forum is completely true, and should be construed as fact. I do smoke weed, and sometimes I eat it. Not only that I sell it, along with every other drug known to man and a few that aren't. Everything I do is 100% illegal, and I condone others breaking the law. All pictures that I post are not taken from the internet, but are of my own illegal operation. Also, I speed and don't come to complete stops at stop signs.
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Aug-08-2008, 19:43
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Perhaps...
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I've seen the "fog fountain" units for living room displays. Looks like the fog spills over the edge for the same reason it won't fill a tall tub, gravity. Perhaps you can avoid root troubles by generating the mist in a smaller container, and "spill" it into the root tub. Then, as it condenses, pump it back up. Food for thought? Best Zard
__________________
Plants do things for a reason.....they don't just decide one day to get root rot or act funny..... - Weedhound "Their perception is their reality" - Irydyum "Gotta keep in mind that people and pot plants are very much alike, how well and when you finish is based on genetics. - O. M. My attitude? Deliberate Indifference! -Thanks D.H.http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-pro...anted-one.html
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Aug-09-2008, 12:54
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hmmm, maybe.
__________________
PLEASE STOP BY MY FOGGING THREAD Everything I say in this forum is completely true, and should be construed as fact. I do smoke weed, and sometimes I eat it. Not only that I sell it, along with every other drug known to man and a few that aren't. Everything I do is 100% illegal, and I condone others breaking the law. All pictures that I post are not taken from the internet, but are of my own illegal operation. Also, I speed and don't come to complete stops at stop signs.
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Aug-11-2008, 16:39
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More testing. A pumping unit.
I’m leaning toward having 2 separate pumping units. I built one to test a few things. This is not my dream pumper by any means, and the rules of the subproject stated that I must use materials and tools that I already had laying around. This is only for testing purposes, and my real ones will be smaller, have no air leaks, and be more “professional-looking”.
Unlike the Frappa and Nutramist, there is not a separate reservoir. My real ones will have separate reservoirs, and at least one of them will probably have quick connect fittings and an extra smaller reservoir for foliar feeding. The flexible hose makes it easy to direct the flow of fog wherever you want it, like into the foliage. Fog makes the best foliar feed because unlike misting, it penetrates all areas of the canopy. One nice thing about being self contained is you can easily move this around. It has a handle, and you can carry it from room to room. Take off the hose and set it in the middle of a grow for foliar feeding. I thought I’d see how it ran without sealing the fittings, and was planning on having to do that later. However I can see no fog escaping from the leaks around the hose or pipe, or from under the lid, which I just sat loosely on the bucket. I’m guessing the fog decided to take the path of least resistance, which was through the biggest hole (the one in the hose). I’ve ordered several of each of these: Jenson variable AC adapter – 5.99 Voltage from 3 to 12 volts to vary the fan speed. 300 mAh will drive 2 fans. The replacement fan controller from Nutramist is $20. Antec 80mm case fan – 6.99 The Nutramist replacement fans are 22 cfm and $20, This is 34 cfm, and the only small one I can find that has a 3 year warrantee. Mini float valve – 10.08 This will keep the proper level in the fog pumper using gravity feed. Nutramist doesn’t offer a replacement float valve because they don’t want you building your own fog pumper. This quickie fogger works great, and I was pleasantly surprised at how well it filled up my 29 gal container in about 15 seconds. Notice the fine drops it deposited on my arm hairs after 15 seconds. Imagine this on root hairs. It’s weird that the dry fog makes moisture collect on my hairs but not my hand. I’m still trying to decide if I should use 2 foggers like in this test, or if I should get the 3-head unit for my flowering res. I guess I need more testing on actual roots to see how long it takes to moisten them, and how long they stay moist after the fog pump is turned off. For this test fogger I’m using a 120V computer fan from Radio Shack, which I think was about $15. I have no speed/voltage controller, but the flow seems fine and I see no need to reduce it. The Styrofoam for the float and the laundry detergent bucket are free, and the ABS pipe and 1” tubing are less than $5. So for $70 I’ve got something that works about as well as the $370 Nutramist pumper. For $25 more I could add a 3rd fog head and have the same or better output. I’ll be happy to answer any questions on construction, but for now I’ll let the pictures do the rest of the talking.
__________________
PLEASE STOP BY MY FOGGING THREAD Everything I say in this forum is completely true, and should be construed as fact. I do smoke weed, and sometimes I eat it. Not only that I sell it, along with every other drug known to man and a few that aren't. Everything I do is 100% illegal, and I condone others breaking the law. All pictures that I post are not taken from the internet, but are of my own illegal operation. Also, I speed and don't come to complete stops at stop signs.
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