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frostedwonder · #1 (**permalink**) Mar-08-2009, 08:40

Okay, so I went and bought a few hundred dollars of stuff someone would only want if they really were best friends with Mary Jane. I purchased one 400w switchable ballast and lamp using sun system 2 hood and hortilux eye hps bulb for now.
Made a cabinet (i suck at using tools) that is about 4x30''dx4h. I was thinking after I built it to go higher which I could by unscrewing top and adding an extension, was thinking 1.5ft higher so I dont have to worry too much about stretch and not having any exp lst or other styles of small grow.

I am using a 4'' inline duct fan pushing fresh air thru the hood and out the box. I am also using 6'' inline duct fan pushing air out and trying for a passive system in the gen box area. Purchased some FFOS and some of their other nutes like tiger bloom and open sesame . I plan on using a cabinet that was premade for a small clone/veg area after this is online and up to speed as to try for perp grow. Here are the start pics kinda crappy but will do more when motivated, also I did over water the plants in this pic kinda droopy and only a week or so old.

I keep thinking of things to add like I am in a very cold climate its three wks till spring and by me using my basement for grow box spot its kinda hard to add heat when the light is off so I am using cfl one has an output of over 360watts and then one that is 200watts, just so I can run almost 18-20hrs without over heating. If I run my 400hps I figured I wouldn't have the best veg cycle,,bad idea or safe bet by adding cfls?

Everything I say one of my voices in my head madeup and I rarely listen to them you shouldn't either,,,all farce

bigtopsfinn · #2 (**permalink**) Mar-08-2009, 09:24

Is that a sealed hood? With that setup you should not have to worry too much about heat, even with the 400w hps. However, you say that you are pushing air through the light and pushing air out of the box. You should actually be pulling air out. I made the same mistake, trying to make the fan push air through a bend and through my cool tube. My temps dropped a couple degrees by putting the fan at the end of my ventilation setup, pulling air through my carbon filter first, then the cooltube, out of the closet, and finally through the fan. I added some ducting on the end to help with the noise.

I keep my hps on the whole time during veg (after about the first week or two from sprouted seed), but if the cfls have the same output in Lumens, not watts, then keep the cfls. hps puts out about 50,000 Lumens per square foot. You could probably use both if you rearrange your ventilation.

Thinking about that basement, the temps should not go below 21 C, otherwise growth will slow. Is there any way you vent warmer air into the box from another room? Maybe try raising the box higher off the floor?

Good luck

frostedwonder · #3 (**permalink**) Mar-08-2009, 10:09

Hey thanks for the post and on the day I started the thread! First thing I heard about using duct fans was they will last longer by not having hot air get pulled past them...any thoughts?
Secondly I really need to learn not to water, way to anxious and bored, I love this hobby. If I run the hps with its timers and all the temps are fine in this sealed box. But if on the off cycle I keep the fresh air intake going for the box itself it pulls in the air from the basement which is at best mid 60's, its an unfinished basement in the midwest.

I put castors to make it off ground and mobile and with it being spring in three wks temps will change. I may put a small heater facing intake area of box that starts up when hps is off just trying to be safe and not burn down my place..

When people say how many watts they are using would my box then be around 900watts? one bulb is 85watt input feit cfl that should make 360watts I think and then there is one 200watt output daylight cfl and then the 400w hps. I have read your post on others threads and I am glad your the first to comment.

I have no problems with changing things or trying new stuff cause this is suppose to be fun for me and its in a safe enviroment. oh how far should my hps be from my new plants? I am going with about 25-30'' away and then keep the cfl close to them as well. I am starting out with 20 plants as to weed out the males and then start a mother or three... after i do some cutting to find out I will trim down the count.

If I lst will my height in the box be ok? its 4ft tall and about 3 something when taking the light and even less with the plants container. I am working on a extension cube to add to the top and reseal, wish i would have done it off the bat.. live and learn..

frostedwonder · #4 (**permalink**) Mar-08-2009, 10:25

Here are a few snap shots of basic grow box. also one of my soon to be veg box

bigtopsfinn · #5 (**permalink**) Mar-08-2009, 10:57

No prob

I'm no expert, so I hope some others will chime in.

I ran my setup like you for the same reason, hoping not to overheat the fan. Check the ratings on those fans... Whichever one has the better temp rating, then use that. Mine was rated for up to 75C I believe. If they are not high enough in your mind, then at least make it a straight shot, with the fan next to the light blowing through it and straight out the closet. Since I rearranged, it feels like there is double the airflow of hot air out of my box when the lights on.

There is a grow log here I just saw where a guy had similar night temps, and I believe it will slow down growth, but I dont think they will die with those temps,. Maybe a small heater that has a thermostat could go inside your box, that way its most efficient, and you won't have to turn it on and off (or get another 24 hour timer like the one for your lights). Plus you could then use this setup year-round. It's either that, or find another place in your house for this box. My night temps are about 22-23C, still within range, but I dont keep any inline or exhaust fans on. I only keep the small computer fan blowing on the tops.

And finally, a bigger box is easier to cool and fit more things into, like a carbon scrubber or the heater, ect.. Also, making it easy to water the plants and flush the plants if needed. Right now my soil buckets sit on top of a screen on top of other buckets, so excess water can drain.

Oh yeah, about the watering, they need to get pretty dry between watering. I water once every three days with some run-off within the first couple hours that the light turns on, but that's just me.

frostedwonder · #6 (**permalink**) Mar-08-2009, 12:08

I think I will build the height ext cube and redo the box while the plants are so young. I have a small working veg shelf cab combo that I have next to grow box to house them for the day and have the wood in garage so its just coming down to being lazy lol. I am really not good at tools or spelling so whoever said growing leads to carpentry was right. is it a bad idea to take off the inline duct to the hood so it extracts the heat from cab? i thought with moist air it would be bad and it didn't make sense.

The fans I am using have cfm ratings of 250cfm for box fresh air intake, and 80cfm for air cooled hood. I was trying for a neg air system not sure I have it down pat but I still have to add my little heavy duty oscillating fan to move the air in the box that should really help my temps when lights are on. Should I not even use intake fan when lights are off to conserve temp that would remain in box? I am going to probable run flex tubing to one of the heat ducts down to the boxes fresh air duct..

Also any thoughts on using fert/nutes within three wk stage of growth? The foxfarm ocean soil mentions not having to for 30days but I read people doing things different, is it not recommended or just listen to the plants?

bigtopsfinn · #7 (**permalink**) Mar-08-2009, 12:44

I have a carbon filter before my light and my fan, but I don't know if that makes a difference with the moist air. I have not yet heard of anyone having trouble with their fan because of humidity.

See if you can find the temperature rating for your fan. I can find info about mine on the company's website, and it says the max operating temperature.

Depending on whether your soil has nutes in it already will determine when to use nutes. (If you are using Miracle Grow or other pre-fert soils, just search MG for more info)I have the nutes I'm using in the grow log in my sig. Most say wait until 4 or 5 alternating nodes, and start with 1/4 strength. As for how much and how often, impossible to answer. Some strains require less nutrients and burn easily while others may eat up a lot.

frostedwonder · #8 (**permalink**) Mar-08-2009, 12:57

Hey i was referring to moist air being a prob for the bulb not the fan sorry....

bigtopsfinn · #9 (**permalink**) Mar-08-2009, 13:10

Never heard of that either, as long as you have good connections.

frostedwonder · #10 (**permalink**) Mar-09-2009, 18:56

Okay to try to clear up my question earlier. Is it okay to leave one tube off an air cooled hood and have a inline duct fan pull box air out of box thru that tube over the bulbe and out box?

frostedwonder · #11 (**permalink**) Mar-11-2009, 07:01

Just transplanted last night and will weed out soon to get down the numbers. Had temp problems and may add an intake fan and keep the exhaust fan that would have been my neg air system, not sure it was enough before.

bigtopsfinn · #12 (**permalink**) Mar-11-2009, 10:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by frostedwonder

Okay to try to clear up my question earlier. Is it okay to leave one tube off an air cooled hood and have a inline duct fan pull box air out of box thru that tube over the bulbe and out box?

If I understood your question, YES.

Leave one end of the cooltube open (exhaust system's intake), and then the tubing goes out the other end, to a fan, out the closet (exhaust system's exhaust)

I think that makes sense...

Still have heat problems??? That's strange, sounds to me like your fans aren't working efficiently. Can you re-configure your ventilation in a way that you minimize bends in ducting? How about the ballast for your hps, is it in the growroom? Can you mount it somewhere outside the grow area?

frostedwonder · #13 (**permalink**) Mar-11-2009, 18:57

okay now I am getting it I think. Basically I didn't think moist air coming from gen growing part of the box should go thru the hood and over the bulb. Does that affect it? Its an $70 bulb and I didn't think it should get moist air but I think that if I do what you said I should have no probs with heat the air ductfan for the tube is 80 cfm and if I use that for just gen intake exhaust I would have one 6'' duct fan pulling air out and I could use the other 4'' duct for just exhaust with the one tube off in cab that should work.. I just transplanted last night and they dropped for a bit and now look fine.

frostedwonder · #14 (**permalink**) Mar-11-2009, 19:26

would put some pics on here but system isn't letting me for some reason, there not that big of pics either hmmm

frostedwonder · #15 (**permalink**) Mar-12-2009, 19:38

here is a pic update after transplant to bigger pot. Still trying to rework the air hood and over all exhaust of box.

frostedwonder · #16 (**permalink**) Mar-12-2009, 19:52

My ballast is outside my box the only thing heating it up is the four bulbs the main one is the 400w hps in its ac hood and then there is one 85watt feit cfl and one 200w cfl and one 100w cfl there is a mini fan inside that oscillates and there is three 2.5'' holes for the neg air and one 6'' duct fan pulling gen air out of box and then the 4'' duct in the ducting for the air cool hood. I always see the ac hood with both ends using ducting never really thought to leave one as a exhaust for gen growing area as well. Anyone have issues with moisture in the hood or over the bulb? Not saying I am imagining it to be that humid but any kinda makes me worried about the 70buck bulb and all the fixings.. any thoughts would be appreciated.

frostedwonder · #17 (**permalink**) Mar-14-2009, 23:23

So, took some advice and removed one of the tubes on the air cooled hood and turned the 80cfm duct fan to pull air out of the box thru the hood first, which seems to really help. I was hovering about 82f sometimes and once ran up to 90's eeck! curled a few leaves which has me worried one of my fav plants looks like it has a tan, new leaves seem unharmed tho. This is my third week of growing and plants are showing three sets of leaves yeah! I bought a 400watt mh bulb and switched out the hps, glad I bought a switchable ballast. This prolly will not be something I keep in for long but until I have clones this is going to be use as a stand alone box then make use of a veg cab that I already have with t8 floros and some cfl lighting as well. Bought some root riot plugs and the dome setup and some clone gel. Rounded my single attempt to restart the economy by getting Grow big nutes and grabed some fox farm ocean soil and light warrior to have on hand. Will post pics tomorrow.

I make things up and this is just one of the many absurd babbles I have written to humor myself and others and should not be taken serious as with any of my posts.

frostedwonder · #18 (**permalink**) Mar-16-2009, 22:33

geez from others posts you would think new current grows would get more views but I will take any insight that I can get. I started using grow big foxfarm soil nutes for the recommended three wk dose amount and have some leave curling upwards and some color changes, not sure if it was over done or just gen shock, any thoughts? Oh plants are 18days from seed germ to now.

trinitybound · #19 (**permalink**) Mar-16-2009, 23:05

Your cabinet looks great. Your plants are over nuted though.
Pure FFOF has plenty of nutes almost too much for small plants. I would flush them out and just water for awhile. I like to mix the FFOF with sunshine mix #4 50/50 it's a great balance and still leaves room for extreme nutes. The Fox Farm schedule is powerful start out at half stength or less and get a feel for it.
I did a side by side comparison with four plants from seed using FFOF and Sunshine mix #4 (which is a soilless medium that has no fertilizer) in the Sunshine mix I used the Fox Farm grow big soil and big bloom. The FFOF plants had too much nitrogen but stayed really stocky, the sunshine plants were a little more stretched, not much at all, but the stem was wider and the roots ran deeper.
This is what brought me to the 50/50 mix. Check out my log in my sig.

bigtopsfinn · #20 (**permalink**) Mar-17-2009, 00:54

Nice to see things are coming together for you. Yes, they look a little overfertilized to me also. Also, careful with that MH, as it will burn your babies easier than an hps.

frostedwonder · #21 (**permalink**) Mar-17-2009, 19:51

Okay so over nutes eeeeck! I will just flush with reg water and see how it goes. The plants seemed like they were handling the nutes based on the 2 week feeding schedule but then wk 3 ouch! as for the light it is basically 25'' from the tops is that too close for a 400watter?

frostedwonder · #22 (**permalink**) Mar-17-2009, 21:41

I actually measured the light and it is about a foot over the tops of the plants, is that ok or should I move it up a bit. I like how bushy the plants are gettting and lots of branches growing, one more? how old usually should a plant be to take a clone it to sex? I am guessing when a cutting can be had that is about three inches off third node or so is that correct?

frostedwonder · #23 (**permalink**) Mar-21-2009, 06:18

so the hopeful girls are about 3-4wks and from my view looking good. I hope to take first cuttings soon and then sex some of them. I will try to mother some of them maybe four of them and then flower the rest.

bigtopsfinn · #24 (**permalink**) Mar-21-2009, 06:25

Looking good Frosty!

Sorry I can't be much help with the cloning, except to say that you should maybe wait a week or two. I think it usually takes like 4-6 weeks to sex them depending on the strain...

I'd say as long as the plants look like that, however, the mh is in a good place. I just put my hand underneath and if it gets uncomfortable, I raise the light.

frostedwonder · #25 (**permalink**) Mar-21-2009, 06:29

One thing that I was wondering about leaves. is it just based on strain that a plant goes from a three blade leaf to a five or seven? Some of mine went from three blades to seven it seems and some 3 then 5 then 7 is that normal?

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