How dare you enjoy your break.

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HERE HEREthe nerve of some people...lol

Db

P.S. ITS POST #420!

__________________
Your style will eventually match your grow area and the amount of time and money you like to put into initial setup vs. long term maintenance.-stinkyattic
"Boy, the next words outta your mouth better be some brilliant Mark Twain shit...cause it is definitely getting chiseled on your tombstone"-Otis Driftwood
LED growing- An instructional grow log
Episode 3...Revenge of the LED

OK folks, I figured out the peaks specifically for weed, according to High Times. Thanks to SnS for the photo of the chart. Also here's the chart for higher plants in general again in case anyone wants to compare. I know I do.

Attached Images

	Peaks01.jpg (721.6 KB, 46 views)
	metabo5-nmPeakActivity.jpg (125.3 KB, 47 views)

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thanks for breaking that down Opie. I got a ?. why does 630nm look so orange? that is the nm for the reds in the procyon and looks nothing like orange when you look at them. seems to be that way in all the charts

Db

__________________
Your style will eventually match your grow area and the amount of time and money you like to put into initial setup vs. long term maintenance.-stinkyattic
"Boy, the next words outta your mouth better be some brilliant Mark Twain shit...cause it is definitely getting chiseled on your tombstone"-Otis Driftwood
LED growing- An instructional grow log
Episode 3...Revenge of the LED

Hello! I have been thinking about this LED growing for some time now. I have lots of ultra bright leds, White, pink, red, blue, uv..but the thing I'm wondering..is it after all beneficial to use different colors..like blue and red? how about white? as far as I know white is a mix of all the wavelenghts. And also, when ordering LEDs, one can see that the white ones have the highest brightness.

So what I'm trying to say here..is it possible that there is actually almost as much the "good wavelenghts" in a white led than..say blue. For example, my blue leds are rated at 6000 mcd, reds are 4000, uvs 200. Now when I look at the datasheet of my white LEDs..it shows 17 000 mcd! So basically there is a lot more light and the power consumption stays the same. I know that there is also some wavelenghts that aren't that important but maybe someone can tell me if this is worth considering..can it be calculated somehow?

well I don't understand..is this possible. I used a calculator to change the 17 000 mcd to lumens and found out that I need 1000 ultrabright white leds to get same amount of lumen than a 100W bulb..that's ridiculous.

So if I build a LED unit for growing my first plant, how many 5mm LEDs will I need to get some bud..just need to try it for medical reasons and I hope it'll help me..if so, have to move to the netherlands

I have 6000mcd 20 degrees Blue leds and 4000mcd red leds..do I get any results with say..300 LEDS?

here is a wealth of info on that subject.
The perfect LED grow light

thank you for your interest in our grow. i dont like 5mm LEDs for any type of grow light, their wattage ratios are way off. also know nothing about constructing led lights, thats why I bought them put together. PLEASE ask this and your future ?'s in the thread posted above You will also learn of the "Lumen Foley" if you read the whole thread.

Have a nice day!
db

__________________
Your style will eventually match your grow area and the amount of time and money you like to put into initial setup vs. long term maintenance.-stinkyattic
"Boy, the next words outta your mouth better be some brilliant Mark Twain shit...cause it is definitely getting chiseled on your tombstone"-Otis Driftwood
LED growing- An instructional grow log
Episode 3...Revenge of the LED

How about this one!
High Power LED Set of 50 ProLight 3W Blue 113.6 lumen on eBay, also LEDs, Electronic Components, Industrial Electrical Test, Business Industrial (end time 20-Mar-08 10:37:46 GMT)

It would cost some $230 and would produce 5650 lumens of blue light!

Hey crazydoc,

Like you I've been following the various threads and I've been researching the topic.

I've come across the units you're linking there, and I think they're probably close to what's needed.

However, the spectrum on the Blue Prolight's isn't really ideal. from what I recall they're closer to the 465-470nm Blue. For Grow lighting ideally one would want 450nm blue. That wavelength is pretty rare unfortunately.

On the other hand, red Prolight LEDs are much closer to ideal.

I have considered some the possibility of using
BestHongKong.com ProLight 3W White PG1N-3LWS STAR LED
Which are white 3W prolights, and then make an array o them supplemented with the reds.
White obviously isn't ideal and you'd need to compensate with using more lights, but it would work (especially since its so hard to find LEDs with the perfect output).

If anyone has any links to information about working with these "star" package LEDs and what's necessary in terms of cooling them (heatsinks?) and what kind of hardware you need to make an array using them, it would be much appreciated. Such information would be highly useful to anyone looking to build their own custom arrays for research purposes

Those star packages appear to be clones of what Cree uses for some of their Xlamp designs, although they also have some that are even smaller.

It's all in the name Science of course.

gil....physicsnole and opie yutts are the ones to talk to about manufacturing your own LED set-up...we just got 3 porcyons 100w and are gonna be adding some supplemental reds (CREE!!!) next grow...glad so many people are seeing the light!!!...heh


whiskeytango

__________________
Your style will eventually match your grow area and the amount of time and money you like to put into initial setup vs. long term maintenance.-stinkyattic
"Boy, the next words outta your mouth better be some brilliant Mark Twain shit...cause it is definitely getting chiseled on your tombstone"-Otis Driftwood
LED growing- An instructional grow log
Episode 3...Revenge of the LED

SnSstealth,
How are you going to add the extra lights? About the only thing that occurs to me is to place them in the corners of the grow area in spots likely to be blocked out by foliage otherwise, to give light to lower leaves and such.

Success in this endeavor is so new it is difficult to figure out many ways to improve on it without more data

i agree 1000%...lol...thats why we are doing our thread...to let everyone know what these lights can do...now we all have a base..we SEE what the outcome will be, no more speculating...so after this grow...yeah, we will arrange a few maybe 14w cree kits around the room...they look damn good now though...lol, but we will see in about 6 weeks....i hope more and more people get in this LED thing...then i can have someone to compare with...lol

whisekytango

__________________
Your style will eventually match your grow area and the amount of time and money you like to put into initial setup vs. long term maintenance.-stinkyattic
"Boy, the next words outta your mouth better be some brilliant Mark Twain shit...cause it is definitely getting chiseled on your tombstone"-Otis Driftwood
LED growing- An instructional grow log
Episode 3...Revenge of the LED

Ok here are the wavelengths I think we should use (please give feedback!!!):

420, 440, 460, 465, 470, 530, 590, 625, 635, 660, and 735nm.

1)460nm-Beta carotene-(because this is the wavelength with the greatest efficiency in converting blue light to the 660nm light, http://www.life.uiuc.edu/govindjee/papers/carotfig7.jpg)
2)440nm 660nm-chlorophyll a-(only because I cant find any 665nm or 670nm, might increase forward voltage just a little to get 667)
3)465nm 635nm-chlorophyll b-(could tweak forward voltage slightly to get closer to 642nm)
4)590nm-phycoerythrin
5)625nm-phycocyanin

The 420nm is used by all pigments and chlorophylls so would be a great addition.

The 525nm is green light that can be used for additional lumens (even though they are not the most effeciently absorbed color, they are still absorbed a a little, the rest is reflected and then absorbed again....)

The 735nm is a deeeeeeep red (borderline IR) that we can use to manually convert the P-FR to P-R quicker than letting them naturally convert, so we can flower with shorter nights (and pump in extra light and energy in the process)

These are LEDs I think we could use:
-color---manuf.----wattage----output-----------part#-------------price-----quantity
420nm-Epitex-------8.5W--.039lm-14mW------(3)L420-66-60-110--$15.70---
460nm-LedEngin----5W----52lm---1250mW---(1)897-LZ110DB05---$21.19----2
465nm-LedEngin----15W---200lm--4000mW---(1)897-LZ400B215---$35.65----2
530nm-LuxeonRebel-2.5W--145lm--250mW---(2)LXML-PM01-0080---$4.53-----10
590nm-LuxeonRebel-2.5W--65lm---125mW----(2)LXML-PL01-0030--$2.67-----10
625nm-LedEngin----10W---350lm--1500mW--(1)897-LZ420R110----$27.20----2
626nm-LuxeonRebel-2.5W--85lm---450mW----(2)LMXL-PD01-0040--$2.67-----10
635nm-LedEngin----10W---320lm--2130mW---(1)897-LZ400R110---$24.00----
645nm-Epitex-------4.5W--12lm---120mW----(3)L645-66-60-------$2.91-----
660nm-LedEngin----5W-----211lm-500mW----(1)897-LZ110R205---$11.70----5
735nm-Epitex-------7.8W---1lm----4000mW--(3)L735-05AU-------$0.44---


and im thinking these ratios:
Vegetation Flowering
420-5%----420-1%
440-15%---440-2%
460-5%---460-6%
465-35%---465-7%
530-5%----530-4%
590-5%----590-5%
625-5%--- 625-10%
645-10%---645-20%
660-10%---660-40%
735-5%----735-5%
6:2.5 B:R----7:1.6 R:B

Still need to find 440 and 640 and 670nm.....

Holy hell, is there going to be a test on this later?

Great thread guys! Even though I'm totally in the dark when it comes to LEDs (har har...), it's cool to know that people are getting some real results from them. I'm gonna go start a pot of coffee, and try my best to follow this thread from the beginning before I start asking questions that've probably been answered a million times.

__________________
"In order to become "old & wise", you must first be young & stupid." -?
"Switch to 24/0 light schedule and don't worry... about a thing... every little thing... gonna be all right." -StinkyAttic
"It can be a fine balance between 'ok...I need to water later today' and 'shit...I should have watered yesterday.'" -Rusty Trichome
"I know it was just a typo, but you wrote "Marital Arts," instead of "Martial Arts," and that makes for a very hilarious paragraph!" -Dragonrider

Finally got back from Tampa.....nice long break but ready to get things moving. Unfortunately the funds for the test LED array will arrive next weekend (I know I said I was gonna have it but shit happens ). Thanks SnS for that graph, now we can stop arguing about it.

Ya no problem. Just...how do you do that???

Opie I think it's (2). Even though the procyons are doing a FANTASTIC job, I believe LEDs can (and will) provide even better plants.

Try this site: The perfect LED grow light
explains everything...

Opie- Brightness is not what we are looking for in LEDs. Im sure you remember eyes respond to different colors differently. A 5lm green light will seem much brighter than a 5lm blue light. Anyways...I think mW is a good constant for comparing LEDs. Light can be measured in watts, because light is a form of energy. But dont get the input power (15W) of a LED confused with its output power (usually much less, 4W for example). Look at this table LED Wattage, this shows how to convert say 1lm of 500nm light to x amount of watts of that 500nm light. And watts is a form of measuring photosynthetic radiation, microeinstein being to more familiar unit for this however. Using milliwatts (or watts for that matter) to compare outputs of LEDs is the way I compare LEDs. So when we make the array we must be sure that the mW (or output power) of the specific LED wavelength matches the total wavelength ratio.


Depends on the wavelength. 1 watt of 555nm is 683lm. And a candela is 1 lumen per steradian (steradian being the area being covered, that requires complex calculus to convert steradian to say square meter, but it can be done, depends on the distance of the LED to the surface...blah blah blah..) Forget you ever learned about candela (cd) and microcandela (mcd). Most LED suppliers provide lm (lumen) and lm/sr (lumen per steradian) output ratings (some even mW!!). So from now on use lumens for the output, go to that table, and convert to watts based on the certain wavelength. Most 5mm or low power LED manufactures use cd and mcd since they have alot smaller outputs.

There is going to be a test, soon in fact. I am constructing a single plant hydroponic system (will post pics later) inside a hollow computer shell. I want to make a LED array with these ratios and enough light for multiple plants.

I will make a summary post for this thread soon so people with questions wont have to go through every post.

That would be killer! I made it through about half of the first page, and with all the links and unfamiliar references, my brain started spinning... so I had to bookmark this thread for later. Thanks for going into so much detail with all this stuff. I can see why you guys get into it, it's intriguing as hell. Just a little confusing in the early stages.

__________________
"In order to become "old & wise", you must first be young & stupid." -?
"Switch to 24/0 light schedule and don't worry... about a thing... every little thing... gonna be all right." -StinkyAttic
"It can be a fine balance between 'ok...I need to water later today' and 'shit...I should have watered yesterday.'" -Rusty Trichome
"I know it was just a typo, but you wrote "Marital Arts," instead of "Martial Arts," and that makes for a very hilarious paragraph!" -Dragonrider