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Thread: Light Movers - Yield Effect?

  1. #1
    Graybeerd is offline Registered
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    Light Movers - Yield Effect?

    I am blessed with plenty of space in my first grow situation. I have a 5'X5' closet with a 430W HPS that now contains 10 unsexed (hopefully females) plants in five gallon pots (in potting soil) under a 24/7 light cycle.
    Veg. growth has gone well (2 months), these plants are now 3-4ft. tall and are ready to be sexed and cloned for use in a SOG setup in the adjoining bedroom, which is 12'X12'. I plan to use a 1000w HPS lamp for the main room.

    My question is, how many clones can realistically be flowered with this lamp, in this space? I could use a light mover track on the ceiling to move the lamp on a six foot track across the room. Above, maybe, three rows of plants, in two gallon pots, this might give me 8-10 in a row X 3 rows= a max of 30 plants. Is this realistic for a 1K light? Or am I stretching the light and diminishing the yield?

    Q: Does the plant need constant direct light to flower at an optimum level, or can a moving light achieve good results while giving intense direct light only a portion of the time?

    Q: What is the maximum amount of plants that can be flowered using this technique? What is optimum?

    I have a lot more questions, but does any one have a situation that is similar? Advice?

  2. #2
    Dutch Pimp's Avatar
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    Talking

    I don't know the answers to any of those questions. But, I wish I had that set-up. Then I would find the answer the same way I do everything else, the hard way. Good Luck...

  3. #3
    SnSstealth's Avatar
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    Light movers are amazing. I would use a 600HPS on a light mover in a 5x5. Then your only limits will be space. As many clones as you can fit I would say...10 in 5 gal pots is gonna be awful tight though. Not to much penetration huh? I have a 2x7 space with 30 1 gal pots...But the 430w maybe a lil low IMHO..
    whiskeytango
    Your style will eventually match your grow area and the amount of time and money you like to put into initial setup vs. long term maintenance.-stinkyattic

    LED growing- An instructional grow log
    Episode 3...Revenge of the LED
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  4. #4
    stinkyattic's Avatar
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    The natural footprint of a 600 is already 4x4.
    I'd save the mover to a situation where you would about double one dimension of your footprint, and also to bring the light closer. Thus, a 600 should be on a 6 foot track over up to 8 feet of linear grow space, making the footprint under the track about 4 x 8.

  5. #5
    medigrower is offline Registered+
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    so because you are bring it closer you are seeing the same yield if not better correct?

  6. #6
    stinkyattic's Avatar
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    More lumens can mean more yield, and what you are doing with the mover is decreasing the TIME that the light spends REAL CLOSE to the plant, and it will be less likely to suffer drying and heat problems.

  7. #7
    SnSstealth's Avatar
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    ah.....so a 430w would work? hmmmm
    maybe I need to look at that, lol.
    whiskeytango
    Your style will eventually match your grow area and the amount of time and money you like to put into initial setup vs. long term maintenance.-stinkyattic

    LED growing- An instructional grow log
    Episode 3...Revenge of the LED
    Episode 4: The Clone Colonies

  8. #8
    Graybeerd is offline Registered
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    Maybe I wasn't clear on that question. In the 5x5 room I've got the females, ready to give up their clones. I've got about five different varieties and I'm going to clone them all and see which is best. They are under the 430w HPS and doing well.

    It's the big 12'x12' room I'm asking about. I can use a 1000w lamp, and a light mover in this big space and stretch the grow area out to however far the 1K lamp can be effective along a 6 foot track.
    So given that, how many clones(in 1 or 2gal pots) are going to be workable?

    Has anyone out there done a studied how many flowering plants can be matured under a 1K light, if you can move it around on a light track?

  9. #9
    redline is offline Registered+
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    It is going to depend on your style of growth, size of plants, indica vs. sat, etc
    . I use a 400 watt HPS on a 4 foot mover. It covers 2.5' x 6 foot. I grow 12 plants under it. They are only about a foot tall since I like heavy LST. If I was SCROG, I could have as many as 24 plants.

  10. #10
    xcrispi's Avatar
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    I have a inteli track 6 ft rail .
    Wish I never bought the damn thing .

    Sweet = I can grow a bigger area now .

    Bummer = Took lotsa extra time to bloom . Lights on 1 end of the room while the other half of the grow is jonesin .

    Wished I'da just bought another 1000 n not the mover .

    Crispi
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  11. #11
    Graybeerd is offline Registered
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    Thanks Xcrispy. How many plants were under the mover?

    If there are more plants, but taking longer to finish, does it even out? Is it more, or less, efficient?

    Such as, if it took 2 weeks longer to finish the grow, but you ended up with 50% more bud, then it would be more efficient, right?

  12. #12
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    got the same mover as X to the C in the flowering room 5.5 x 6.5 w/ a 1k hps.. it seems it would be enough but I agree w/ CRISPI another thouie would be better, if you've got the air movement to accommodate it. I was able to run the light closer to the canopy

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  13. #13
    Dutch Pimp's Avatar
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    Question

    so....an extra light is better than one light on a "mover"?

  14. #14
    xcrispi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch Pimp View Post
    so....an extra light is better than one light on a "mover"?

    YES lol ,
    Atleast at my house Pimp .
    I'm an impatient SOB .
    I even tried pawnin it off on a fellow site member , who will go unnamed , and she wouldn't bite either . lol . She had already bought a 2nd 1000 too .

    Greybeerd - I had 4 plants under the single 1000 and mover . It took an extra month to flower em . Huge plants though bro. 4 filled an entire room . 5.5 ft. tall , 4 ft diameter . Looked like a smaller version of Shaggys crazieness .

    It might work out better w/ tonsa plants untopped sog ? But that shit won't fly at my house . I fear high plant count nos.

    Peace
    Crispi

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    TheXFactor is offline Registered+
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    u seem to have decent credentials and im new to this specific board. used to be an OGer. So not too much if a rep for me here yet, and beginning my first indoor grow with a 4x4x7 tent w/ 400wattmh with 13 seedlings livin it up, happy frog, 6-3-6 nute in 2 weeks, plan on vegging for 6-8 weeks, and maybe keep 1 female mother from a fem seed i have going. then put into a 9x10x8 w/ mylar with a 1000w hps... im experienced outdoor with soso result, mother nature can mean. I plan on using a light rail from corner to corner. and was told by a wiseman, that the light rail should never used to extend a grow area but rather to make the original intentions more efficient. time will tell for my experience. but i am perplexed with the idea of 2 600w hps on a light rail, possibly along with 1 1000 watt centerd for flowering.

  16. #16
    Graybeerd is offline Registered
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    Perplexed? I would think that the two 600W lamps would be more efficient than one 1K lamp, especially if they were on a mover.
    On that advice about movers used to "make the original intentions more efficient". No matter how you slice it, if you move the lamp, you are "extending the grow" a certain extent. I know what he means, to vary the light angle so that areas of the plant that would not get light in a static setup would get some light periodically. But, like the old saying goes, "there is no free lunch", any time you move the light around the growing area you are diminishing the amount of light in any particular area.
    This is the problem that I addressed in the original post, but nobody has come up with a formula, or opinion as to whether periodic intense direct light (with a mover) can be substituted for a static setup, and most important, where is the point of diminishing returns, how far can you stretch the growing area before you are impeding the plants growth.?
    There has got to be a formula for a setup that would take advantage of the moving light to maximize the crop, but I haven't figured it out yet. Everyone says, "just add more lights". Well sure, thats a no brainer. I'm just trying to figure out how far you can stretch the ones you have to maximize the harvest.

  17. #17
    SnSstealth's Avatar
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    found this one, claims to be more effective due to faster movement/closer to canopy

    Welcome to the Solaround Light Mover

    db
    Your style will eventually match your grow area and the amount of time and money you like to put into initial setup vs. long term maintenance.-stinkyattic

    LED growing- An instructional grow log
    Episode 3...Revenge of the LED
    Episode 4: The Clone Colonies

  18. #18
    killerweed420 is offline Banned
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    I'm going to try building a manual light mover in my flower room. I've got a 1000w hps air cooled. I'm going to use the upper rail from a hanging closet door,attach my light to a couple of the rollers and every evening move the light from one side to other for 24 hours. In a way it would be better than a motorized system because with motorized the center still gets most of the light. This way I can alternate the foot print

  19. #19
    Stuper Star is offline Registered+
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    Graybeerd is on the same pg as me i think
    I too am interested in finding the "just right" amount of light movement. My gut tells me that it is actually a short distance for maximum benefit.
    My experience is mostly with 1K's in 4ft parabolic reflectors(vertical bulb) covering 5x5' areas, even up to 6' wide on one side....great success.

    Now. We have 25 one ounce plants under that 1K in a 5x5' area achieving 1.56lbs every 9wks (2wk veg, 7wk flower).
    If we make the area 5x7' and add the light mover, we add 2 rows of plants. 10 more.
    So now the light is moving...but I figure that rows 2-6 can't possibly lose any yield and will AT LEAST produce the same as if those 5 rows(2-6...5rows) are still under a stationary light in their 5x5' space. BUT...those rows 2-6 are now getting slight light angles and technically, should yield more. But even if we just let them stay the same...1oz ea.
    Rows 1 and 7...even if they "only" produce 1/2oz ea...10 of them total...5oz extra. Just by adding a mover.

    That's my theory.
    Just over a 1/4lb more on the very first cycle for the cost of a basic mover on your 1K light.

    I think most people move the light too far.

  20. #20
    Stuper Star is offline Registered+
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    Forgot to comment on plant counts for ya Greybeerd.....
    In general...4 per sqft is max density. 6" pots, all touching.
    You mentioned 2gal pots...at 8", you can fit 3across per 2feet...so a 5ft width = seven 2gal pots/plants

    Veg time...strain...topping/scrogging...these are all factors that determine the best choice in plant count.

  21. #21
    Graybeerd is offline Registered
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    Thanks Star. Now we're getting some actual light mover user feedback.

    My plan was 3 plants across (now maybe more, 5?), and 8 to 10 plants in the row under a 1K HPS, with a six foot mover. (this is un a 12' x 12' room.)

    I know, you probably think that's stretching it, but we'll see. I'll post the results.

  22. #22
    Earthy Dank's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graybeerd View Post
    Perplexed? I would think that the two 600W lamps would be more efficient than one 1K lamp, especially if they were on a mover.
    On that advice about movers used to "make the original intentions more efficient". No matter how you slice it, if you move the lamp, you are "extending the grow" a certain extent. I know what he means, to vary the light angle so that areas of the plant that would not get light in a static setup would get some light periodically. But, like the old saying goes, "there is no free lunch", any time you move the light around the growing area you are diminishing the amount of light in any particular area.
    This is the problem that I addressed in the original post, but nobody has come up with a formula, or opinion as to whether periodic intense direct light (with a mover) can be substituted for a static setup, and most important, where is the point of diminishing returns, how far can you stretch the growing area before you are impeding the plants growth.?
    There has got to be a formula for a setup that would take advantage of the moving light to maximize the crop, but I haven't figured it out yet. Everyone says, "just add more lights". Well sure, thats a no brainer. I'm just trying to figure out how far you can stretch the ones you have to maximize the harvest.
    I have had this same question for awhile. And after playing around with it I figured out my personal solution. I just add 50% more space and keep the distance of the lamp close yet keeping it high enough to shine on everyone. So for a 1000w I'd have it 4x6 with the light between 12" and 16" high. I can get 50%more plants and they actually grow much bigger and more stable with the mover... definately. a good investment. I've seen people do 4x8 and get great results but the size of the buds wasn't as good and he had a couple stretching problems early on. If he had used alot of rooted clones instead of big bushes he probably could have done better. It seems to me that smaller freshly rooted clones would be able to do better under "less" light than a big rapidly growing bush.. right?
    Any pictures are not my own and are pictures I found on an image search engine. All posts are fictional. I DO NOT sell/cultivate or participate in any illegal activities what so ever and will not be held liable for anything that I say on these forums.
    ""Those who danced where thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music."" --Angela Monet
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  23. #23
    Earthy Dank's Avatar
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    The light reflector you use has a major effect on how the mover will work. enclosed reflectors typically force light down so there will be a 8"x12" hotspot right under the bulb. I have found that the best reflectors are the little cheap wing-tops. Its best to be the ones with the dimples and not the polished mirror but either one works amazing. It give a perfectly even footprint with NO noticeable hotspot... so i can keep it very close while still spreading light over a large area consistently.
    Any pictures are not my own and are pictures I found on an image search engine. All posts are fictional. I DO NOT sell/cultivate or participate in any illegal activities what so ever and will not be held liable for anything that I say on these forums.
    ""Those who danced where thought to be quite insane by those who could not hear the music."" --Angela Monet
    Earthy Dank's Cabinet Extravaganza 2008
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    My Outdoor Journal 2006

  24. #24
    pyroboy4206 is offline Registered
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    I have been looking for something substantial on this subject for a few weeks now. Thanks for the reference here guys. more later from me.

  25. #25
    amaturegrower is offline Registered
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    Light mover, best investment yet

    I have been using a light mover for some time now. it is amazing, but you are correct, you grow to the foot print and the appropriate application. I have two 3x9 foot prints. I have ran several light setups with optimum environment conditions (temp,humidity,co2,AC,PH, Nuts,Ect). For flowering for me, and my foot print (3x9) it calls for a 600watt HPS for a 3x3 space (1sq meter) My foot print in theory would require 3 600 watt HPS to properly cover the foot print for the recommended light. However because of the light track (5.0 commercial light rail x 2) I cover the foot print with 2 600 watt HPS lights, reducing heat, power and leaf burn as well as getting far better light penetration. So to summarize, I use 2 600 watt HPS to cover a 3x9 area. I currently run 1/4 of the legal limit for my self and my patients. 12 mature plants SOG, each side, typically around 750-850 grams per square meter (3 sg meters x 800 grams= 2400 grams, per side) pretty damn good.

    I have also ran 2 300 watt LED, 8/1/1 ratio lights on each size (as they are very comparable) and the yield is slightly less, but you save soo much power, on the watts, the AC and all of the cooling components. No ducting and super quiet. I have been very impressed. when you turn one on they are bright and almost a purple light, but do not look nearly as bright as a 600K HPS or even a good 400 watt MH, but they work and work well. I tested these lights for a buddy because he knows my environment is very dialed in, and he wanted to get a good feel for the lights as in comparison to my HPS, here is the break down; (3 sq meters x 550 grams per meter = 1650 grams per side) so it is less but when you factor in the costs over the months and the fact those fricking LEDS last for like 5 years before you need to replace them it is really a tough call. I was knocking them pretty bad, just because I know HPS are proven if applied correctly. And I now stand corrected and humble on the LED lights. Anyways a honest run and opinion from a HPS guy on the whole LED craze

    2 sum it up, more light is not always better, but don't try to over stretch it for the foot print, a light track can not replace light. If you move it though, you can get a 1.25-1.5 longer ( longer only not wider, it is very important) foot print and reduce plant fatigue, burning as well as help penetration and better light angles.

    I rarely post on here unless I feel I have some real insight on what I write or comment about.

    AG

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