300w HPS? do you mean 2x 150w?
Originally Posted by Romantik
If you're running 300w of each, how can they warm the rooms differently? in the end all that power turns into heat.
I think he means he has one 300 watt hps versus a 300 watt induction light.
Doesn't heat output depend on the efficiency of the light and the amounts of light produced at different wavelengths?
Originally Posted by vannewb
Well, different lights put out different heat. Some don't put any heat out at all, like LEDs. I believe induction lighting is also very very low. It depends on how the light is produced.
im fairly sure heat is based on watts, ie 300w = 300w
First, LEDs do produce heat, just not nearly as much due to efficiencies. Hence, a 300w LED can be cooled with a heat sink or a small computer fan while a 300w HID needs a squirrel cage. LEDs only produce light in few wavelengths while an HID produces a ton light across a wider spectra including yellow and orange light which equals heat. An HID also literally burns inside the bulb. So 300w of HID = tons more heat than 300w of LED. That much I'm sure of. We need khyberkitsune in here to straighten this out...
any pics of your grow with the lights that you are selling caus i am interested but would like to see some results first? Also, you can just stay in the house I think, squatters rights or something, look it up =] good luck
Originally Posted by romo76
Renters have rights. You should be contacting a lawyer right now.
if u got the 40 watt induction lamps 3500k and placed them 6 inch away from each other in a row could u flower good if u only placed the plants right under the lights?
40 watt= 3000lm
forgot to say the plants will be small2 to 3 feet tops
I've gotten a few emails with some questions so hopefully I can answer everyones at once.
First off, thanks for advice about renters rights. Unfortunately in Nevada renters have limited to no rights. I already talked to a friend who is a lawyer and a realtor as-well and both said I'm SOL. However if I was in California I could tell them to go suck-it for 6-months or more.
Onto the lights:
-Sorry no pix of results. Even-though I was doing this for legal purposes I didn't feel the need for any unnecessary exposure. A friend did take a few...will ask if he still has them and post if available.
-What is the light spread? I don't exactly know as I kept the lights aprox 3"-4" above canopy. My set-up was a 4-pipe recirculating system 8'-long 3.5'-wide...SOG 40-plants...2-inductions on 1 Light-Rail 3.5. Worked great for me.
-How warm do they get? If I was to guess...75+/-....warm to touch...not hot. Great lights for anyone who may have ventilation issues. Or if you choose not to use ventilation at all and keep your CO2 confined.
-What color spectrum do you have? I currently have the purple M-land currently in each fixture. I had 5-extra 2700K bulbs for flower which worked very well. I was swapping out bulbs like you would do with a digital HPS & HM ballast. Unfortunately when I was moving some stuff around the box with 2700k bulbs fell over and all broke.
-What's your opinion on performance? The purple veged like crazy (300-induction stayed neck-in-neck with 600-MH). So IMO equivalent to 600-HPS/MH. Although I never tested with any higher then 600w HPS. Furthermore you can flower with the purple, however like in a previous post they fall about 30% short. Moreover you can flower with a MH and get the same results....best to switch to HPS. Having said that maybe the Bi-Spectrum is the answer for both cycles. That was going to be my next test.
-Cost of shipping? Go to USPS, UPS, FedEx and use the calculators they provide. Shipping from NV 89510 Weight-30lbs 8"x15"x34".
-No-one asked this...but the lights have a 5-year warranty....So about 4.5-years left on warranty.
Hope this answers everyones questions.
are you in reno nv?
i am 89436 lol
but would the 40 watt induction bulbs flower if u have enough in the 2800k
i think it would be around 7000lum or more a sq ft
I'm in Tahoe...and could come down the hill.
Originally Posted by MrLegal
I only have the (5)-300w
what color are they?
and how do they do for flowering
MrLegal...If you are interested in helping patients....I have a few that will need help in the area. As I can no-longer help them.
However due to NV law you would not be-able to take ANY compensation. I only did this because I believe in helping and the cause.
Sorry to do this to the peps that are interested in the lights. But I just got a call and found out that my wife's mother is back in the hospital with aggressive cancer. They thought it was taken care of 1.5-years ago, however it sounds like it came back and spread to her lymph-nods in her chest and potentially her bone. Everything I own will be going to storage for now and I will have to deal with this later when I get back. I will get back in-touch with those who were interested...maybe few weeks...or more....not sure. Again...Sorry. Best of luck to everyone.
Induction Grow (400 watt / 500 watt)
I just finished my first harvest ever with a 400 watt Induction Grow light.
1. Can an induction light produce Grade A+ bud.
A: Yes, yes, and yes. You will need some supplemental lighting to get there but it is easily done.
2. Can an induction light flower as quickly as HPS?
A: No not really. With supplemental lighting you can get fairly close. (but good things come to those who wait)
3. Can you produce the same weight as HPS?
A: Easily- and actually can be a decent bit more. There is a little more strategy involved (SOG- recommended) Use 2-3 times more plants but keep them smaller (dont veg as long- and drop bottom fruit early.)
Here are my personal thoughts on the light:
1. First off all of you who dont know this light is awesome compared to current lighting technology. The closest thing to Induction is LED.
2. The light I purchased shipped directly from China and cost me $310 including shipping (which was $130 of the $310- there was no shipping break on ordering multiple units i asked.) There are many providers but all the lights are coming from China at this point. (there are a few us importers and websites selling the lights but are charging an arm and a leg to get one)
The best place to find a supplier is ALIBABA.com
3. I dont have extensive growing experience but this is what I feel about the light.
Induction lights I thought could be purchased at different color spectrums (similar to ccfl's), however when I read into it the light actually produces a range of spectrum. The wholesalers typically claim 2700k-5400k. (the one I bought said 2100k-5400k). There is also a few different types- the pink ones which are not supposed to do well because the quality of light sucks and really can only be used for veg.
To get your 420 to flower at a similar rate to HPS you do need to add some supplemental lighting to get a stronger focus on the deep red part of the spectrum. I personally added 4 2700k CCFL's around my Induction light and it made a big difference in flowering time and size. (also considered a 90 watt all red 660nm LED UFO)
The Induction light on it's own would take about 1.5-2.5 weeks longer to bud than an HPS. With adding 2700k CCFL's it cuts down the flowering time to where its close to HPS (maybe a week longer at most). The good news the extra week under an Induction is well worth it. This light produces some of the most amazing chronic because of how well the plants absorb this type of light. The flowers it produces can be large also but that really depends on how you train the plant and what kind of setup/style you are running.
I recommend a SOG (sea of green) style and keep the plants smaller but a single focused stalk or lollipop style (where you drop all the bottom fruit early) so you get a few bigger buds instead of lots of mini's.
The whole advantage of this light is you can get it extremely close to the plants and it has almost no heat. This helps the plants absorbs incredible amount of energy.
1 400 watt light covers 2x3 feet. (with supplemental lighting 3x3-3x4)
So if you are planning on growing in a larger area multiple lights are necessary or a light mover (or both).
They now produce a 500 watt induction! I do recommend them just know that like everything else in this world nothing is as hyped up as sellers make them. You can save good money, get very good bud (that takes slightly longer), have no heat issues, can keep C02 levels higher, etc. but it has it setbacks as well, smaller plants, less coverage area.
If you can get a 500 watt shipped for under $400 it's worth a go. You will find yourself wanting to buy more of them after one harvest.
Hope I could help.
Originally Posted by bigsby
it's basic thermodynamics. if you're pumping 300w of electricity into a room, then 300w of energy has to come out of that room .. some way or another.
Originally Posted by neceros
In a sealed room, it's going to be almost entirely heat, with a negligible % of it being chemical energy (i.e., the plants you grew).
The reason people say "LEDs are cooler!!" is not because a 300w LED makes less heat than a 300w HID. It's because you can grow nearly as well with 300w LED as you can 1000w HID. The reality is you're simply pumping in only 30% of the electricity, which results in only 30% of the heat.
(There is also the issue that many "300w" leds could actually be consuming only, perhaps, 250w of electricity... while 300w of HID could consume a real 300w in the bulb, plus maybe another 50w in the ballast... so suddenly your HID setup is in reality consuming 50% more electricity than a supposedly equal wattage LED).
That said: If you put 2 equal wattage lights, with equal ballast losses, in identical sealed rooms... they will both heat those rooms nearly exactly the same amount, no matter how efficient the lamp is. The brighter lamp room will simply cause the heat emanate more from the plants/walls than from the bulb.
Anyone who claims they have seen a significant temperature difference with the same wattage is either mis-measuring, or not using similar wattage.
There's a *MASSIVE* difference between a 1000w LED panel, which does NOT have a glass casing that reaches 1000+F while in operation nor does it have burning electrodes, and a 1000w HID, which DOES. There's a difference between the heat output from a light that uses an open electrical arc (fluorescent, HID) and a light that uses quantum wells.
Originally Posted by vannewb
I compare watt-for-watt lighting (as close as possible) all day long for my job. In the same space (A PC case) even 50w LED runs much, MUCH cooler than 54w T5HO. Reason being, no electrodes as a spark gap emitter for a source of energy loss and heat generation.
I think you're also forgetting that entropy differs in different electrical system configurations. That in itself is a basic tenant of thermodynamics.
Last edited by khyberkitsune; Jul-14-2010 at 01:53.
A statement worth addressing.
"Anyone who claims they have seen a significant temperature difference with the same wattage is either mis-measuring, or not using similar wattage. "
Oh, now, I wouldn't say that!
While you are spot on about Watts is Watts, you are overlooking a basic mechanism.
Most light sources radiate a lot of heat.
With leds the heat is produced by the diode which is tightly bonded to a heatsink.
I have a fan drawing the heat from the 'sink at the back of the lamp and I pump it out of the room before the room even knows it's there.
That is easy to do, with leds.
Hps, even with a cool-tube, radiates much of it's heat into the room as IR, right through the cool-tube, where it is much more difficult to remove before it can cause problems.
So, I do claim, and can document, a significant temperature difference with similar wattage.
I am not mis-measuring.
I am taking advantage of the nature of the LED.
Narrow spectrum light that is ideal for photosynthesis. is all that I'm pumping into the room.
And the best part is, I'm putting 0 watts into less efficacious wavelengths, and almost none into radiated heat.
Jus' my 2 cents,
Plants do things for a reason..they don't just decide one day to get root rot or act funny. - Weedhound
"You have the ability to move 1000 times faster than your plant, but that doesn't mean that you should." - Emilya
romo i am willing to check one out and hopefully buy one
Have you ever put both 1000w lamps in a sealed room with idential cooling systems, confirmed they both actually draw the same power (using a kill-a-watt or similar device) and then measured significantly different temperatures in that room?
Originally Posted by khyberkitsune
I doubt it... but if you have, then can you explain where that equal amount of electrical energy goes if not into heat? (I know some people like to say "light" but that's not a good answer, since it's a sealed room the light cannot radiate away... it must bounce around until it is eventually converted to heat)
Entropy is one-directional in every configuration. Whether that heat comes from a metal heatsink, a glass barrier, or the walls warmed by radiation, it's all still heat captured in the room.
Originally Posted by khyberkitsune
Yes you have a better cooling system in setup "A" than you have in setup "B". However, if the same # of watts had to be exhausted by exactly the same system in both setups, the temperature would be the same. Yours is not an apples-to-apples comparison.
Originally Posted by Weezard
So your LED setup permits you the luxury of a more efficient cooling system, a legitimate advantage to that type of lighting. apples-to-pinecones comparison, the apples are tastier, i agree.
The original claim was that 300w induction raises room temperature less than 300w HID. I don't believe it's so unless they're unequal setups. Is there something about induction lighting that allows you to more easily exaust a portion of the generated heat? If so, that's great news. That's why I originally asked the question of how someone got a 300w induction light to warm the room less than 300w HID.
"Have you ever put both 1000w lamps in a sealed room with idential cooling systems, confirmed they both actually draw the same power (using a kill-a-watt or similar device) and then measured significantly different temperatures in that room?"
In way many more setups than you can possibly imagine, and across the globe, pal.
My job is to design lighting solutions of ANY sort and as acting director of research for a multi-national corporation. That means LED, Induction, HID, Fluorescent, CCFL, even micro-plasma sheet lighting. You probably haven't even heard of the last one.
"The original claim was that 300w induction raises room temperature less than 300w HID. I don't believe it's so unless they're unequal setups. Is there something about induction lighting that allows you to more easily exaust a portion of the generated heat? If so, that's great news. That's why I originally asked the question of how someone got a 300w induction light to warm the room less than 300w HID. "
Sorry, brah. I missed that part.
In which case I agree with you as conjecture.
Watts, is Watts.
Can't say for sure if the lack of internal, hot tungsten electrodes would make a big difference or not.
So, I'll defer to those who can.
Have never personally used an induction light.
So, I'll recuse myself, from this discussion, an' happily take my pineapples, with me.
Fo' da nex' pineapples to pineapples comparison I stumble upon.
The tube itself emits less heat due to having no electrodes burning, exactly, but it still gets hot at higher wattages. The ballast, not so much but it still gets warm, and for induction lamps that is an issue given the typical close construction of the unit, especially at higher wattages. Even so, more wattage in a tube does mean more heat generated, but induction does not run as hot. If it ran as hot as HID, the thin phosphor layer would be vaporized well before the advertised 100,000 hour life.
Originally Posted by Weezard
Tags for this Thread