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Thread: New Induction Grow light

  1. #1
    RackitMan is offline Registered+
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    New Induction Grow light

    Note to moderator: If this is considered spam and against the rules, then I apologise, but I thought this may be of major interest to all growers.

    I am in contact with the manufacturer of the only induction light specifically designed for plant growth and am trying to get this product off the ground and see if it meets the needs of the cannabis community. If there is interest I would be looking for both testers and investors for the USA.

    Here are the pros of this new light:

    1. Low heat. No venting required. Will not burn plants.

    2. No fans built-in or required.

    3. Light spectrum designed specifically for plant growth.

    4. Extremely long life. Only 35% lumen loss after 100,000 hours. Twice that of LEDs.

    5. Five year guarantee. Repairs after that time are not to exceed 50% of the price paid.

    6. No supplemental light required. Designed for both vegetative and flowering dues to strong output at blue and red; yet all of the lesser frequencies are covered.

    Induction lighting actually goes back 100 years to the time of Tesla and has been used for high output commercial lighting for decades. It is somewhat similar to fluorescent in that the bulb contains a sealed tube with rare gases and specifically chosen phosphor coatings.

    As there are no electrodes to heat up and cool off like a standard fluorescent, there is very little material decay. The gasses are stimulated by a strong magnetic induction field; thus no wires or contacts to the bulb itself.

    Initial testing indicates that a 200 watt induction light will meet or exceed the growth shown by a 300 watt triband LED grow light.

    The costs are lower than that of comparable high-power LEDs, but more than HID.

    These units are solidly designed with no flimsy or short-cut components.

    There are 200, 300 and 400 watt models coming, with only the 200 and 300 watt models currently available.

    Pictures and spectral graph coming in the next post.

    FYI, I am not a salesman, but a grower like yourselves. I cannot yet vouch for this product until I and more experienced growers get a few harvests under their belts, but it could be a very exciting business and horitcultural adventure.

    Manufacturer will offer a significant buy-back to initial buyers that do not think the light is adequate for their needs. They are willing to lose money to gain the future market share.

    If enough people are interested, I may present a group buy proposal to my contact.
    KnowledgeIsPower likes this.

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  3. #2
    frostymcfailure is offline Registered+
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    Induction lighting actually goes back 100 years to the time of Tesla and has been used for high output commercial lighting for decades.
    This is what truly sparked my interest. I've been doing research on this man since i was very young & would love to see how these turn out. I am willing to try one under a battery of extensive testing and let you know how it turns out. If i like the results i'd also be interested in investing & talking to some supply vendors i know to carry this product. Have any of these been through a run yet & if so what were the results. Also, what is the name of this type of lighting & what color does it appear to the naked eye.
    Last edited by frostymcfailure; Jul-21-2009 at 01:20.

  4. #3
    RackitMan is offline Registered+
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    The light ouput is about 85% usable by the plant as compared to about 15-20% (?) for HPS.

    Notice the full red spectrum from orange and on into far red with very little wastage in the yellow and green and a nice bump on the low frequencies which includes blue, royal blue and cyan. The light appears pink/lavender to human eyes.

    Unit size is roughly 8" deep * 24" * 15" and weighs 22-25 pounds.

    Initial studies in Chinese Universities look promising and I have requested the papers, but we all know that we need experienced growers stateside with well-documented grows on our favorite plant to do a real-world proof of concept.

    I like the fact that this is a new application, but a well-proven technology in commercial lighting. The phosphor coating specifically designed for plants is mainly what is proprietary.

    The rectangle with the U-Bend tube in the lower right attachment is what the output looks like.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Induction Grow light-spectral-graph.jpg  

  5. #4
    Swansen's Avatar
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    i found these not to long ago, and the fact that Nikola Tesla is behind the invention of the light speaks volumes.... you really have to wonder though, where have these lights disappeared to over the years?? Anyways, if i had a spare 3hundy laying around i would pick up one of those 200w units. Of which, they are VERY pricey, but i guess what do you do.

    bump for an amazing product

  6. #5
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    Hey, I did the same thing you did and ordered these lamps.

    Some companies have induction lights especially for flowering, that have for example been tested here (in Dutch, but the pictures are very clear).
    But any company can produce them if you order enough. They just play with phosphor-mixtures till they find the right one.

    You should be able to get 300 watt complete for less than $ 150,= FOB Shanghai.

  7. #6
    RackitMan is offline Registered+
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    Do you have a source for such a low price? I would be most interested.

    An industrial induction light has the wrong spectrums and while it would still grow plants, would not be very efficient.

  8. #7
    bigdutchman is offline Registered
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    I have been reading a bit about the induction lighting. I would be interested in hearing pricing, wattage, form factor, etc. LED lights seem to suffer from a lack of full spectrum, where the induction lights do not.

    bigdutchman

  9. #8
    knna is offline Registered+
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    Very interesting, RackitMan. Thanks too Bubbleblower for the aditional info.

    At what lamp power correspond the spectral distribution graph posted? Any link to more complete technical info about the lamp?

  10. #9
    NeverEnough is offline Registered+
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    150$ is cheap?

    You can buy 8 23 watt cfls for 15$ and that purduces 12800 lumens enough to properly light a 4 foot plant with good results.

  11. #10
    headshake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeverEnough View Post
    150$ is cheap?

    You can buy 8 23 watt cfls for 15$ and that purduces 12800 lumens enough to properly light a 4 foot plant with good results.

    well let's see.....


    Quote Originally Posted by RackitMan View Post
    [I]

    1. Low heat. No venting required. Will not burn plants.

    CFLs put out a good deal of heat. they actually put out more heat than HIDs.

    2. No fans built-in or required.

    3. Light spectrum designed specifically for plant growth.

    4. Extremely long life. Only 35% lumen loss after 100,000 hours. Twice that of LEDs.

    CFLs need to be replaced every six months at least as they wear out easily. HID bulbs also need to be replaced about the same i believe.

    LEDs should theoretically never burn out, but they loose light output after 50,000 hours or so.


    5. Five year guarantee. Repairs after that time are not to exceed 50% of the price paid.

    6. No supplemental light required. Designed for both vegetative and flowering dues to strong output at blue and red; yet all of the lesser frequencies are covered.

    this will have to be determined.



    -shake
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  12. #11
    romo76 is offline Registered
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    [QUOTE=RackitMan;2008209]I am in contact with the manufacturer of the only induction light specifically designed for plant growth and am trying to get this product off the ground and see if it meets the needs of the cannabis community. If there is interest I would be looking for both testers and investors for the USA.

    I definitely be interested in testing 3 x 300w induction light(s) (or 1-400w & 2-300w depending on lumens output) and releasing the results weekly with photos. I have clones rooted under low watt LED's and will be ready to go in the next 1-2week.

    Contact me and lets light it up.

    Cheers

  13. #12
    MerryPrankstr's Avatar
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    There are 7 of the lights on eBay right now.

    M.P.

  14. #13
    romo76 is offline Registered
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    Seen them on ebay...thats why I started looking around for input. Price seems steep with no real results on-line to review. $450-$500 seems more reasonable for the 300w and have an independent tester to produce results with pix for the rest of the community. Willing to test it out though for the right price.

    Any other sellers for less $$$ or results posted you can point too?

  15. #14
    phoenix137 is offline Registered
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    Are you referring to the Super Grow Light made by M-Land? I'm definately interested... could you contact me with details?

  16. #15
    bigdutchman is offline Registered
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    I've ordered the 300W light from M-Land. It should arrive in the next week or so. I plan to put it into operation as soon as possible, I'm not sure if I want to do a side-by-side comparison, but I should be able to tell on a more general nature how the light is doing.

    Based on what I have read, the 300W is equivalent to a 1000 -1200W LED, which is supposed to be equivalent to a MegaWatt HID

    It has half the energy consumption of my 600W HPS but should have a much higher level of usable light for photosynthesis. Watt for watt, the inductance light looks very promising.

    I'll keep everyone updated,
    bigdutchman

  17. #16
    overdose42024 is offline Registered+
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdutchman View Post
    I've ordered the 300W light from M-Land. It should arrive in the next week or so. I plan to put it into operation as soon as possible, I'm not sure if I want to do a side-by-side comparison, but I should be able to tell on a more general nature how the light is doing.

    Based on what I have read, the 300W is equivalent to a 1000 -1200W LED, which is supposed to be equivalent to a MegaWatt HID

    It has half the energy consumption of my 600W HPS but should have a much higher level of usable light for photosynthesis. Watt for watt, the inductance light looks very promising.

    I'll keep everyone updated,
    bigdutchman
    i just read that a 300w is actually like a 600w LED. how much did you pay?

  18. #17
    oldmac's Avatar
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    Has anybody really looked at MLand's site?

    The 300w "super grow light" specs are truly awefull. They claim that 96% of the light produced is useable by a plant...I guess PAR watts here would be 288w. But then it says it produces Red, Blue and GREEN! I don't know what the rest of you are growing but my plants don't need green, in fact they can't see it.
    Now I know when dealing with PAR that lumens are a poor choice for measurement, but they list lumen output at 30Lm/watt. That means total output for a 300w light is just 9,000 lumens.
    Note also they are the mfg behind a bunch of crap LED lights that are way over hyped...do yoou think they might be over hyping this light toooo?

    As my dad always said, "If something is too good to be true, it probably is"
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  19. #18
    bigdutchman is offline Registered
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldmac View Post
    Has anybody really looked at MLand's site?

    ...it says it produces Red, Blue and GREEN! I don't know what the rest of you are growing but my plants don't need green
    I looked at the spectrum the light puts out, and it has a small spur in the green area, but it is almost insignificant. I'm not sure what the 30lm/W is because others list inductance at a much higher level.

    Agree, if it's too good to be true... but I decided to take the plunge. I paid $525 for the 300W light FOB my doorstep. The killer here is the shipping, they are charging $105, which is crazy. I couldn't talk him down. I'm going to do a grow test, and if it works, then I will work a deal with him to cut shipping. He wants the money up front which means I would have to order about $25,000 in lights to get a discount and will probably have to deal with the shipping and duty fees myself. Hmmmm...

    The light arrives this Friday, so stay tuned...
    bigdutchman

  20. #19
    knna is offline Registered+
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    Yeah, oldemac, I had the same question, thus I asked RackitMan to what lamp power correspond the SPD graph posted, which has scale so it can be calculated.

    When they say 96 or 85% of the light may be used by the plant it means its into the PAR range. It not mean the 96% of the watts consumed are delivered as light. Probably, the efficiency of the lamps is about 25%. If its 30%, it would be excelent.

    Id wait to some more detailed specs. Can you link the manufacturer page, so I can read whatever technical info they have avalaible?

  21. #20
    oldmac's Avatar
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    Hey knna,
    Here's the link to them: Shanghai M_land Industrial Corp.,Ltd Take notice of the LEDs, much of what you see on e-bay and from bs marketers of crap LEDs originate here.

    Hello bigdutchmen,
    I hope I'm wrong about those lights for your sake, so I look forward to your getting them, trying them and then reporting back to us. I looked at induction lights abt 15 years ago and to me there were just fancy fluorecents that had large (at that time) ballasts that could not be remotely mounted, I passed on them then.

    As to spectrums provided by chinese companies, I need to pass this on to everybody. When I was building my first hi-powered LED light I had purchased 250 Red 2w Cree's 635nm since I knew them to work well (660nm red was not available) and to combine them with white LEDs. I had done alot of research on LEDs at the time and noticed most whites were driven by a blue die that excited the phosphor. The spectrum output was a blue spike at about 460nm and then a larger sweep covering the spectrums up to reds. I decided to cheapen up the design by using white diodes fron China. I had contacted a couple of mfgs with what I was looking for and one company, from Shanghai, sent me back a quote and included a spectrum analysis of the LEDs and it was exactly what I was looking for. I purchased 100 1w diodes and built my light. First run trying the light was a complete f-up, plants stretched so much they hit the glass enclosure (only have 24" clearence) of the light. I immediately realized I was lacking blue big time. I wound up sending a couple of the white diodes to someone for spectrum analysis and the resulting graph was no where near what was originally sent to me. They completely lacked any usable blue. I wound up rebuilding the light but used T5s full spectrum fluros instead of the LEDs. A couple of weeks later while going thru LED specs again I came across the EXACT spectrum I had been sent, it was on the Luxeum site. The bastards had copied it, put thier name and chinese characters on it and called it thiers. I've had a grudge against chinese crap since then.
    Last edited by Burnt Toast; Jun-02-2012 at 16:59. Reason: killed store link - Posting commercial/store links is prohibited in these forums, as per Board Rules..
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  22. #21
    knna is offline Registered+
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    Hi, bubbas,

    thank you for enlighting us a little more about these lamps. You data seems unbeatable. Its being difficult for me to believe that induction fluorescent lamps gets 133lm/W with 300W and 150lm/W at 400W of power. As those fluorescent spectrums emits less lm per PAR light output, it would mean that they are surpassing HPS in energy efficiency by a large margin. But it fall into what is possible technically, and I would love to confirm it.

    The 300 and 400W includes all the power that the lamps burns, or just the consuption of the bulb? Meaning, those lm/W figures I have calculated based on your data, are wall plug efficiencies?

    In that case, its an amazing perfomance!

    Lm emission figures are backed with some measurement, or are they just what the manufacturer says that they emits? The graph posted by Rackitman seems to be extracted from an integrated sphere's measurement. If so, it surely will confirm those figures.

    2000 micromols of photons/sq meter at 3ft is an overkill figure for sure. It was measured on an small cab using refflective walls? Because if its on a open room, it would be too much. Cannabis gets photosynthetically saturated between 1800-2000uE/m2 on the usual temperature ranges. So it would mean that the lamp must be used 3ft away from plants, and I dont think this is correct.

    Please, may you detail a bit further irradiance figures from the quantum meter? How is possible that they peaks away from the bulb? I think im missing something here.

    Sorry if I do so many questions, but it seem a very interesting lamp and I would like to confirm its not due to marketing hype but due it actually an excelent lamp.

    How hot it runs? It would be possible to put it between plants? Letting some distance, of course. Im thinking on vertical setups. But probably built in reflector must be attached to the bulb, as it contains the induction engine. Is this correct?


    Anyway, Id love to see a journal or something like that about tests in course. You prove movement by walking. Is it being avalaible somewhere?

  23. #22
    bubbas is offline Registered+
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    Hi Knna,
    The figures for the output is from the manufacturer. I contact them to verify the figures and my mistake, the listed lumin output was Plm/w. The efficiency is actually 95lm/w. I don't know what plm/w differs from lm/w from what i gather it stands for pupil lumin so i think it has something to do with visable light. As for the PAR light, i used a quantum light meter and started off about 4 ft. away and moved closer until the meter peaked and also measured lux output with a second meter. i'm used to measuring and determining light out for commercial applcations and have limited experience with plant lighting having said that i do understand what plant lighting requirments are. The ballast for these lights draw about 25 watts so the actual wattage for these lights are the wattage of the bulb only.The ballast are not really ballast they are a frequency generator because this type of bulb is electrodless and works by frequency to excite the phosphours to produce light.
    your question about the heat output, i have no actual data on what they produce. I can tell you that you can touch them without getting a burn. They do run pretty warm though. You can only hold them for 5-10 seconds before it gets uncomfortable. So you question about running them vertically is yes you can as long as there about at least 10 inches away.
    My test will be finnished in about a month. i will post pictures as soon as i get them.
    Induction lights are not anything new. I ran across them about ten years ago at a lighting fair in Hong Kong. They have been in use in Asia and europe for a long time for steet lights and other applications. I don't know why us North Amercans are so slow at adopting new technolgy.
    As a side note. We have found a supplier of microwave sulphur plasma lights.We hope to test them too for horticulture applications. If you are not familar with them these are also an electrodless lighting system that uses a megatron to produce micowaves to excite the gasses to produce light. These are the most effiecient lights available (130LM/W) and produce the closest light spectrum to sunlight than any other artificial light source. Up until now these lights where very expensive running around $3000 and up each! We hope to bring the price down closer to $1500. There is an interesting article on them an experiment on growing cucumbers. They compared 1- 1000 watt MSP lamp to six 400 watt MH bulbs. In 14 days the MPS plants were more than twice as big! I am bringing one in to test. stay tuned.

  24. #23
    knna is offline Registered+
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    Thanks again for clarifying it, bubbas.

    95 lm/W for a 2700K spectrum is more reasonable for the efficiencies of induction fluorescents actually running. It may be realistic, as its a little better than other models running, but no for a large margin. I tend to take with a grain of salt large improvements on efficacy when they arnt backed with measurements

    That improvement (from the 75-85 lm/W of most induction light Im aware of) maybe due to use a high wattage unit. Maybe manufacturer is exaggerating a little.

    There is no any definition of plants lm, so its an unmeangliful figure. It would depend on what "plant sensibility" curve is used.

    25W for the ballast is very reasonable for a 300-400W unit. Some electrodeless lamps, as Luxims ones, have a problem with the ballast efficiency, at least at medium wattages. Including it, the 300W units drops to a total wall plug efficiency of 87lm/W, which is still good, on the level of HO T5's. But its clear that these 300 or 400W units achieves way higher intensities than T5s can provide.

    I have a sheet of the measurement of a 6450K induction fluorescent lamp of 300W (actually, 312W, but as its in chinese, I dont know if its the bare bulb or it includes the RF ballast), I dont know if its of this lamp or one very similar, the lamp is coded ZX-HX 300W. It gets 23881.5 lm (76.5lm/W) and 80.9 PAR Watts, about 337 micromols of PAR photons per second.

    What still surprises me is the quantum meter with 2000uE/m2 max peaking at 3ft from the bulb. With a similar quantum output than the HPS lamp, they shouldnt peak at very different distances. But from 1.5 to 3ft is a very large difference. 2000uE/m2 is about 125000lux of sunlight (and 170Klux of HPS), a very high figure that obligues to wear sunglasses.

    Perhaps was it due by very different reflector shapes? It would point up to the induction unit concentrating light below the bulb a lot more than the HPS does. At first view, the induction reflector not seems to concentrate the light so much. But sometimes reflectors do different to one may think just by a visual inspection.

    Did you measure how was the light distribution along an horizontal plane below the lamp? It would be very useful to know how the reflector is distributing the light, and will provide context to the measurement on the vertical plane.

    Looking forward for pics of the test

  25. #24
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    What prices would one be looking at to purchase a 300watt?
    I'm entitled to my opinion, and my opinion is that your not allowed to have an opinion. - George Carlin

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    The best way to accomplish anything is through education.


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  26. #25
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    Hey Jackdewack,
    Our 300 watters are available in 2700K, 6400K or the purple full spectrum. All are 120 Volt and are $480
    Thanks
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Induction Grow light-efdl-growlight.jpg  

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