anyone out there going to vote on the lisbon treaty on october 2nd. im getting pissed off with all the junk mail coming through my letterbox from the referendom commission(funded by the E.U). its all so one sided.they are supposed to be impartial.check out infowars ireland for the real deal on the treaty. how many times are we going to be asked to vote on this. there is no democracy in europe anymore. but at least us irish got a vote on this issue. every other country just passed it through their parliments.

come on ireland and europe.. has no one an opinion on the lisbon treaty. thats whats wrong these days. we are letting politicians pass laws in our names and no one seems to give a shit. wake up europe and demand your government gives you a referendem on this treaty. and let the people of europe have their say.

Hey Fourkicks can you give us your reasons for voting no (layman's terms please i'm a simple man or so i have been told) apart from stopping the spread of EU nationalism that is.
i haven't made up my mind yet

go to infowars ireland and watch the "LISBON TREATY EXPLAINED" video. its what you didnt see on the RTE news. basicly the treaty is an unreadable document whose hundreds of pages must be referenced off other previous treaties that have been rejected by the dutch and i think french voters. the eu is trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes on this. watch the video man,it might point you in the right direction.

1. Would be a power-grab by the Big States for control of the EU by basing EU law-making after Lisbon primarily on population size. At present EU laws are made by a majority of States(14 or more), as long as they have between them 255 weighted votes out of 345. Under this system the Big States have 29 votes each and Ireland has 7. Under the Lisbon Treaty EU laws would be made by a majority of States(15 or more), as long as they have 65% of the total EU population between them. This change would double Germany’s voting power in making European laws from its present 8% to 17%, increase Britain’s, France’s and Italy’s from 8% to 12% each, and halve Ireland’s vote to 0.8%. How does reducing our vote in EU law-making to 0.8% put Ireland “at the heart of Europe” ? Or induce the other EU Member States to listen to our concerns on unemployment and help resolve the economic crisis in the interest of Irish companies, workers and farmers?

2. Would copperfasten the Laval and related judgements of the EU Court of Justice, which put the competition rules of the EU market above the right of trade unions to enforce pay standards higher than the minimum for migrant workers. At the same time Lisbon gives the EU full control of immigration policy(Art.79 TFEU).
3. Would permit the post-Lisbon EU to impose its own EU-wide taxes directly on us for the first time in order to raise its own resources for the EU itself, without the need of further Treaties or referendums(Art.311 TFEU).
4. Would amend the existing treaties to give the EU exclusive power as regards rules on foreign direct investment(Arts.206-7 TFEU) and give the EU Court of Justice the power to order the harmonisation of national indirect taxes if it judges that these cause a “distortion of competition” in the market (Art.113 TFEU). These steps would threaten our 12.5% corporation profits tax, which is the principal attraction of Ireland for foreign business.
5. Would abolish the European Community which Ireland joined in 1973 and replace it with a legally new European Union in the constitutional form of a Federal EU State (Art.1 TEU). This post-Lisbon EU would for the first time be legally separate from and superior to its 27 Member States and would sign international treaties with other States in all areas of its powers (Arts.1 and 47 TEU; Declaration 17 concerning Primacy). In constitutional terms Lisbon would thereby turn Ireland into a regional or provincial state within this new Federal-style European Union, with the EU’s Constitution and laws having legal primacy over the Irish Constitution and laws in any cases of conflict between the two. Ireland would thus formally cease to be a sovereign independent State in its own right in the international community of States and be like a provincial state in an EU Federation.
6. Would turn us into real citizens of the constitutionally Federal post-Lisbon European Union, owing obedience to its laws and loyalty to its authority over and above our obedience and loyalty to Ireland and the Irish Constitution and laws in the event of any conflict between the two. One can only be a citizen of a State. The Irish people were not that happy when they were citizens of the UK State. Although as citizens of the post-Lisbon Federal EU we would still keep our Irish citizenship, this would be subordinate to our EU citizenship and to the rights and duties attaching to that in any case of conflict between the two (Art.9 TEU).
7. Would give the EU Court of Justice the power to decide our rights by making the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights legally binding for the first time (Art.6 TEU). This would give power to the EU judges to lay down a uniform standard of rights for the 500 million citizens of the post-Lisbon Union in the name of their common EU citizenship in the years to come. It would open the possibility of clashes with national human rights standards in sensitive areas where Member States differ from one another at present, e.g. property and inheritance rights, trial by jury, habeas corpus, legalising hard drugs, euthanasia, abortion, labour law, succession law, marriage law, children’s rights etc. Ireland’s Supreme Court and the Strasbourg Court of Human Rights would no longer have the final say on what our rights are.
8. Would abolish the national veto Ireland has at present in 32 new policy areas by handing over to the EU the power to make laws binding on us as regards public services, crime, justice, policing, immigration, energy, transport, tourism, sport, culture, public health, the EU budget, international moves on climate change etc.
9. Would reduce the power of National Parliaments to make laws in relation to 49 policy areas or matters by shifting their powers to the EU, and increase the influence of the European Parliament in making EU laws in 19 new areas (See euabc.eu for the two lists).
10. Would be a self-amending Treaty which would permit the EU Prime Ministers and Presidents to shift most remaining EU policy areas where unanimity is required and a national veto still exists – for example on tax harmonisation – to qualified majority voting on the EU Council of Ministers, without need of further EU Treaties or referendums(Art.48 TEU).
11. Would abolish our present right to “propose” and decide who Ireland’s Commissioner is, by replacing it with a right to make “suggestions” only, leaving it up to the incoming Commission President to decide (Art.17.7 TEU). The EU Prime Ministers have promised each State a permanent Commissioner, but what is the point of us continuing to have an Irish Commissioner post-Lisbon when the Irish Government can no longer decide who that Commissioner would be?
12. Would enable the 27 EU Prime Ministers to appoint an EU President for up to five years without allowing voters any say as to who he or she would be, thereby abolishing the present six-month rotating EU presidencies (Art.15 TEU).
13. Would militarize the EU further, requiring Member States “progressively to improve their military capabilities”(Art.42.3 TEU) and to aid and assist other Member States experiencing armed attack “by all the means in their power” (Art.42.7 TEU).
_______
TEU = Treaty on European Union as amended by the Lisbon Treaty; TFEU= Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union as amended by the Lisbon Treaty. These two Treaties together would become the Constitution of the new post-Lisbon European Union.
For more detailed information see nationalplatform.org and euabc.eu

3 Responses to “Summary of 13 things the Lisbon Treaty would do!”

1. http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/e7f0b...6%3Fs%3D32&r=G ianfella says:
   August 27, 2009 at 10:15 PM
   I have been on the http://www.lisbontreaty2009.ie trying to make more sense of the Lisbon Treaty. They have a link to download the treaty, which I did, and it would seem they have conveniently left out the section on the ECJ taking supremecy over National law when both are in conflict with each other! I’ve spent the last 5 hours reading and re-reading the treaty, but I cannot find it anywhere!
   
   
2. http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/f2b7f...6%3Fs%3D32&r=G Simon Murphy says:
   August 28, 2009 at 3:50 AM
   You should try looking at Consolidated Readable Lisbon Treaty by Jens-Peter Bonde. Its available on our download section.
   
   
3. http://www.gravatar.com/avatar/71123...6%3Fs%3D32&r=G Cork No Voter says:
   September 2, 2009 at 12:47 AM
   ianfella, the relevant provision is Declaration 17 annexed to the main text of the Treaty. The ECJ has long held, in a series of clearly-worded decisions, that European Community law takes precedence over all the national laws of member States (including, in the ECJ’s opinion, the Irish Constitution). That has been the longstanding position, but it has only ever been based on the ECJ’s own caselaw. The important point is that the text of the Treaties themselves do not say this; the ECJ just decided that it was implied. If “supremacy”, as it is called, is merely based on ECJ caselaw, then it can simply be overruled by a contrary ECJ decision (not that that is a likely event at this moment). However, were the ‘common law’ (as it were) stance taken by the ECJ actually entrenched in Treaty level text, like a Declaration annexed to a Treaty, then it would akin to Treaty-level law, and a differently constituted ECJ would not have the power to change it. The objection raised is that Lisbon’s Declaration 17 takes a decision of the ECJ (that did not have and does not have textual support, might I add) and changes it from something that can be overruled into something that cannot. It would be like taking an Irish Supreme Court decision that implied something in to the Constitution, but actually entrenching it in the constitutional text itsel. If it was just the Court’s own decision that set down the rule, the Court could decide to reverse its original decision, whenever it likes. If it is entrenched in the text, on the other hand, the Court cannot do that. Thus, Declaration 17’s effect is to make an unlikely event (the decisions on supremacy being overturned) impossible. The only way to undo Declaration 17, were it to come into effect, would be to issue a contrary Declaration, or to insert a contradictory Treaty article. That would involve getting the unanimous and simultaneous support of all 27 Governments.
   
   

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well i didnt read your '13 reasons to say no' post but from what I understand, The lisbon treaty is going to take away all of our rights as a public to vetoe different treaties etc.

the fact that they're making us vote again is completely undemocractic but it looks like its going to pass so i guess we're all fucked lol

So you're not sitting on the fence on this one fourkicks.

no chance on this one eddie. theres no splinters in my arse.

yea dublinbud, as the posters on every lamp post say YES FOR JOBS. we all know thats bull shit. the french and dutch rejected it a few years ago and it didnt effect there econemy. IF THIS IS PASSED ON OCT 2 MY KIDS GENERATION ARE GONNA BE FUCKING SLAVES FOR FACELESS UNELECTED EUROCRATS. SO NO MORE DREAMS OF LEGALISATION..

why does it mean that our legalization dreams are over?

fuck it, it looks like californias going to legalize it next year, (fingers crossed) so ill just move there

once big companies own the supersized E.U they will never let legalisation happen. alcohol profits would decrease and so would backhanders to greedy politicians...

but hay looking at the polls we are fucked on this. you can go to cali, but im heading for the mountains with a bag of seeds and a sawn off

Fourkicks, can we all join your hippie commum? you, me and grizzy adams all sparking up on top of magillacuddyrecks.

NO PROBLEM EDDIE,ILL BE ON THE SUGERLOAF... IT HAS SOME DECENT SOIL ON THE SOUTH FACING SIDE

Ah yes the Sugar loaf, how apt to grow in the Garden of Ireland (ha ha).
Seriously though, i do a bit of travelling and it's interesting that the more affluent areas of Dublin and the country has YES posters plastered everywhere and the less affable areas have predominantly NO posters.
Could this referendum be as simple as a YES vote will keep the rich in the manner which they have become accustomed and the downtrodden firmly under the boot?

eddie, you could be right man. i havnt seen a no poster on the south side yet. what amazes me is people are going to believe the same politicians who helped waste and squander hundreds of millions during the tiger years.
remember.. e-voting machines( sitting in a dusty warehouse now)
the under water millenium clock(couldnt be seen in the dirty liffey)
the national aquatic centre( with leaky roof)
the port tunnell( not tall enough for new trucks)

its like an epsode of the simpsons...
irish politicians are inept and i dont trust anything they say.

I'm with you man.
Screw the united states of europe.

__________________
Fate decides who walks into your life, you decide who you let stay, who you let walk away, and who you refuse to let walk out.

it was no last time & it will be no this time.

we went to eindhoven a few days after the last treaty was rejected & everyone in the coffee shops was thanking us for voting no, if you don't vote no for ireland vote no for Holland

we voted b4. de irish government dont understand that NO means NO! im voting no again.

good to hear it lads... make sure you inform all your mates,get them down to the polling stations on the2nd of october...this things not lost yet..

Just puttin it out there lads its just a thought, from what ive heard if we pass this treaty we're handing over more power to the EU. With europe being fairly lenient towards cannabis this might be the first step to decriminalisation. I know its a long shot but c'mon like what government in this country is ever gonna have that, We're all complaining about the government being shit but we want them to have all the power too? Its not exactly my reasoning and i havnt decided what way im voting yet, but i have being doing a lot of thinkin lol





"arguing over the interent is like winning the special olympics. Even if you win, you are still a downie"

i could be wrong but is europe soft on cannabis?, its easy to score in copenhagen i know that. but the dutch christian party are in government now and they are starting to reduce the amount of coffee shops in amsterdam. i have been twice a year for over a decade now and the number of coffee shops is getting smaller each year. they are starting to rethink there policy on drugs and i was reading in soft secrets the amount of busts for growing is increaasing every month. the cops now have private firms going from street to street with heat seeking technology on top of vans.. get to the dam while you can because in a few years it might be fucked...

many european countries are taking a softer approach to cannabis but here is where the problem is, the EU takes a very hard stance against drugs of all kind including cannabis (not alcohol of course, its good for you), Spain, Belgium, Holland & Portugal all take a soft approach to cannabis, but these are the countries that will loose out if the treaty goes through, i have heard many Irish & EU politicans say it.

So if the treaty goes ahead you are garenteed a hard stance on cannabis and the countries that want to take a soft approach wont have a choice in it.

sounds fucked, it is.

good man mosh..now your thinking...


IF THE LISBON TREATY IS RATTAFIED.....

countries will get votes based on the size of there population... it will take 65% of the european population to pass a law that will effect us on our little island.

that means germany, the u.k ,france and some other small populated country could vote in laws

even 14 smaller countries could not stop it...

its not the people who want this passed..its politicians....

GIVE EUROPE ITS OWN REFERENDUM..LET THE PEOPLE HAVE THERE SAY..

AS TONIGHT COULD BE THE LAST NIGHT OF IRISH INDEPENDANCE IM GONNA GET WASTED. I HAVE A 100 YEAR DOUBLE DIPPED HOFFMAN THAT IVE BEEN SAVING AND TONIGHTS THE NIGHT.. TOOK ONE A FEW WEEKS AGO AND HAD A CONVERSATION WITH A SPIDER ON THE WALL FOR 4 HOURS.SO TONIGHT SHOULD BE A TRIP

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BRAINSTORM,VOODOO AND POWER PLANT GROWLOG

wow!!!!! what a night... held a referendum party with a http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:4...wist_fade3.giftwist..








so there has been a massive shift in the yes vote.
its gonna be passed.

arise tony blair. the first president of europe

come on poland and czech republic..dont ratify this treaty

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