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Thread: The claw

  1. #1
    cwesto's Avatar
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    The claw

    One of my plants has developed a claw problem. Almost all of here largest fan leaves have bad claw tips, and the edges of the leafs are curling under, like an upside down canoe. Some quick details - grow in dirt, 400w HPS, 3rd day in bloom, use fox farm and botanicare nutes, ummmm... use plain water every third feeding to act as multiple mini flushes. If anybody can think of any other important information i am leaving out let me know..

    Does anybody know what is causing my plant these problems, maybee a solution to go along with the diagnosis.. Also I know that this can be caused by over watering, and am going to say right now that I always wait for the pot to be light enough to water. So I have basicaly ruled that one out from the start.

    In the picture the plant is back row, middle. This picture doesnt really do the problem justice as you cant really see the claws too well, but it was the most recent I had.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The claw-day-2-48-1-.jpg  
    Last edited by cwesto; Apr-02-2008 at 03:19.

  2. #2
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    Can't really see but if it's really clawing you may want to check PH and pull them from their pots to check for rootbound.

    edit: Don't know what I Was thinking, they look too small to be rootbound. Were they recently transplanted?
    Last edited by daihashi; Apr-02-2008 at 08:09.
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    Without up-to-date photo's of the problem, gonna be tough to say...

    Quote Originally Posted by cwesto View Post
    ...use fox farm and botanicare nutes,
    Which ones? How come two different brands? Not that it's a big deal, but I was always under the impression that you want to stay in the same family, if possible. Something about nute ratio's, nute sources, non-complimentary compounds and ingredients...Keep in mind...this 'fear' may still be clasified as an old wives tale, and may not be a valid point any more. Do you add micronutes?

    Also, may need more perlite...you can almost see the soil. (kidding) But seriously...I know perlite floats, but is there enough organic matter in the pots?
    You mentioned using dirt. What kind of dirt? Just curious, because most of us use soil via some form of potting mix.

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    Amongst my list causing the claw:

    ph issues
    rootbound
    suffocating the leaves (usually with a foliar spray or heat)
    Nitrogen and/or general overnute
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    I haven't found overwatering to cause the claw...just droopiness and yellowing.
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    I use the FF schedule, (G-M-B) and don't usually see nute burn curl the leaves, but do see some leaf-edge burn on occation.
    I kinda like the foliar overspraying or the high humidity possibility. But, you mention nothing of leaf burn...

    Watering can cause a spike in humidity, too. (plant transpiration and soil moisture evaporation) Especially if in a confined area. Since no mention of mold tho, and only afflicts one plant...

    Do you have adequate ventilation, and is the 'problem' plant subjected to more heat than the others? (closest to lamp, in a 'dead-zone' getting no air...)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by daihashi View Post
    Can't really see but if it's really clawing you may want to check PH and pull them from their pots to check for rootbound.

    edit: Don't know what I Was thinking, they look too small to be rootbound. Were they recently transplanted?
    I also dont think they are rootbound yet. Ill keep Ph in mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome View Post
    Without up-to-date photo's of the problem, gonna be tough to say...



    Which ones? How come two different brands? Not that it's a big deal, but I was always under the impression that you want to stay in the same family, if possible. Something about nute ratio's, nute sources, non-complimentary compounds and ingredients...Keep in mind...this 'fear' may still be clasified as an old wives tale, and may not be a valid point any more. Do you add micronutes?

    Also, may need more perlite...you can almost see the soil. (kidding) But seriously...I know perlite floats, but is there enough organic matter in the pots?
    You mentioned using dirt. What kind of dirt? Just curious, because most of us use soil via some form of potting mix.
    ff - GrowBig, BigBloom, TigerBloom. Botanicare - liquid karma and sweet. I use FF mainly for NPK and micronutes, the botanicare products i use are more catalyst/additive/supplement products.

    I use FF Ocean Forest soil to perlite in a 3:2 ratio, so.... is 3 parts Ocean Forest soil to 2 parts perlite enough organic material? I dont know is it??

    Quote Originally Posted by Weedhound View Post
    Amongst my list causing the claw:

    ph issues
    rootbound
    suffocating the leaves (usually with a foliar spray or heat)
    Nitrogen and/or general overnute

    Ok, second time Ph was mention, ill make 2 tally marks by Ph.. I think they are small to be rootbound, but we will soon see as i am going to be transplanting them into 5 gal pales for the bloom cycle. As for suffocation of the leaves - there doesnt seem to be any residual film/layer or anything on the plants leaves. I only foliar'd one time, I dont really have proper equipment for it. Overnute - I guess this plant could just be gentically inclined to less rather than normal amounts of nutes. It gets fed from the exact same mixture as the rest of the plants, maybee shes jusst a wimp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome View Post
    I use the FF schedule, (G-M-B) and don't usually see nute burn curl the leaves, but do see some leaf-edge burn on occation.
    I kinda like the foliar overspraying or the high humidity possibility. But, you mention nothing of leaf burn...

    Watering can cause a spike in humidity, too. (plant transpiration and soil moisture evaporation) Especially if in a confined area. Since no mention of mold tho, and only afflicts one plant...

    Do you have adequate ventilation, and is the 'problem' plant subjected to more heat than the others? (closest to lamp, in a 'dead-zone' getting no air...)
    All my other plants have showed not one sign of burn or claw, besides this one, who gets fed the same mixture as the other plnts.

    I have noticed that mu humidity does spike when I water, but wouldnt that curl the rest of the plants as well?

    I have a cooltube that vents out of my cab. does a great job too.. so i will rule out lack of ventilation.

    Now that you mention it that plant that has the claw is almost directly under the lamp.... I may have to move her out of the sun a little bit and see if that helps.








    Consensus looks mostly like a Ph problem.. I will do a flush first thing tomoro and see what the results are.. hopefully not bad. And also move the plant further from the lamp..
    Last edited by cwesto; Apr-02-2008 at 16:42.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cwesto View Post
    Consensus looks mostly like a Ph problem.. I will do a flush first thing tomoro and see what the results are.. hopefully not bad. And also move the plant further from the lamp..
    Be sure to just get a ph reading before you do a full on flush. There's no need to unecessarily flush a plant if it's fine.
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    I agree.......I would think the chances are fairly small being ph if every single plant except one is normal and they're all fed off the same plate. Even more interestingly.......said plant is directly under a lamp.

    I'd move the plant first and see if that helps. Radiant heat causing suffocation/heat burn is not the same as high humidity imo.........although I guess TOO high could suffocate parts of the plant as well.

    I wouldn't flush it unless you are sure it's necessary.
    Last edited by Weedhound; Apr-02-2008 at 19:03.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by daihashi View Post
    Be sure to just get a ph reading before you do a full on flush. There's no need to unecessarily flush a plant if it's fine.
    Do you think that, waterig with plain water and measuring some runoff would be called for to get an accurate Ph reading??

    Quote Originally Posted by Weedhound View Post
    I agree.......I would think the chances are fairly small being ph if every single plant except one is normal and they're all fed off the same plate. Even more interestingly.......said plant is directly under a lamp.

    I'd move the plant first and see if that helps. Radiant heat causing suffocation/heat burn is not the same as high humidity imo.........although I guess TOO high could suffocate parts of the plant as well.

    I wouldn't flush it unless you are sure it's necessary.
    Sounds good, I already moved her out further from the light, but still dont think that heat was the problem. Im telling you my cooltube SUCKS... literaly. It moves alot of air and it never gets higher than 78F in there.

    Im thining it may be that she just is drinking her water too fast and is a little bit dried out, she's feeling pretty light. The only problem with that is, she seems to claw up more after I water her.

  11. #11
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    I have to agree that its probably not pH, but I also think that if it was heat, the plant would turn its edges up. I burned a few big fan leaves on my last grow in the first few days and the edges curled up. I have had at least one plant but usually more like 4 or 5 curl up in every grow so far even when heat was not an issue, so I am 90% sure it was because they were rootbound. My other 10% is reserved for root rot in my case, but since you're in soil I'd say they are probably rootbound. Get those girls into some bigger pots and watch them explode! They look great!
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    Quote Originally Posted by cwesto View Post
    Do you think that, waterig with plain water and measuring some runoff would be called for to get an accurate Ph reading??
    Try using PH water of around 6.8. That way you know that you should at least come out some where around that same ph assuming that your soil is fine.

    If it's very far below that (more than .5 - .8 points) you know something is up.

    Basically you want to make sure you're still within 6.3-6.8 ph. Reason why you want to use water within the same ph range.
    DISCLAIMER: I do not know how to grow/cultivate cannabis. All posts made by me are fictitious in the form of role playing a cannabis cultivator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dejayou30 View Post
    I have to agree that its probably not pH, but I also think that if it was heat, the plant would turn its edges up. I burned a few big fan leaves on my last grow in the first few days and the edges curled up. I have had at least one plant but usually more like 4 or 5 curl up in every grow so far even when heat was not an issue, so I am 90% sure it was because they were rootbound. My other 10% is reserved for root rot in my case, but since you're in soil I'd say they are probably rootbound. Get those girls into some bigger pots and watch them explode! They look great!
    I will be transplanting them very soon, so lets hope that'll do the trick.

    Quote Originally Posted by daihashi View Post
    Try using PH water of around 6.8. That way you know that you should at least come out some where around that same ph assuming that your soil is fine.

    If it's very far below that (more than .5 - .8 points) you know something is up.

    Basically you want to make sure you're still within 6.3-6.8 ph. Reason why you want to use water within the same ph range.
    I make sure to Ph my water befor feeding to about 6.6-6.7. I adjust to this Ph whether I am using plain water or water with nutes in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cwesto View Post
    I make sure to Ph my water befor feeding to about 6.6-6.7. I adjust to this Ph whether I am using plain water or water with nutes in it.
    Then you should be good to go
    DISCLAIMER: I do not know how to grow/cultivate cannabis. All posts made by me are fictitious in the form of role playing a cannabis cultivator.

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    None of this is Real and I reitterate I have no expierence with growing or using cannabis.

    Check out my New and Improved Grow Log!!!

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    Update

    Today was transplant day. Umm they all went into 5 gallon planters from thier 2 gallon planter, except for one plant who is very small and i figured it'd be OK in the 2 gallon for the remainder.

    Anyways on with the story. The plants seemed to be a bit rootbound, but nothing bad, mostly on the very bottom side of the rootball. They got put into MG organic. Now since I have been admin.'ing all of my own nutes and havent used any fortified soil mixes I didnt really want to start now with this MG, but its all I had. I tried to do a small flush and get some of the fortified nutes out of the MG, but I didnt prepare anywhere near the necessary tap water last night, and every drop that was poured in was slurpted up. They got only rested tap water today as they most likely will get for a while as to get rid of the nutes in the MG.

    Ummm the claw's themselves dont seem to have gotten any better or worse, kinda the same... so I sprinkled some micoh's on the soil befor I watered. I'm hoping that by me ruffling the rootball and adding the admin.'ing the micoh's will help get that small amount of rootbound out the window, followed by the dissapearance of "Ze Claww."

    PS - If anybody want to be kept up to date on the status of this certain grow feel free to stop by the ole' grow log, called "2nd Grow". This particular grow starts on page #8, at the post titled "Re-Do."

    Sorry if I lost anyone on that one, it usually tends to just pour out of my brain and into the keyboard
    Last edited by cwesto; Apr-03-2008 at 20:30.

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    Be careful. Chasing remedies can cause a whole plethora of other ailments. Are you treating just the one plant, or are you performing preventative treatments on all of the plants?

    How many of the leaves are 'clawed'? If plant is doing fine other than the claw...I'd leave it alone.

    By chance, is this plant darker green, and a bit more compact than the others?

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    I wouldnt say more compact, but it has much slimer leaf fingers, and is a bit darker green

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome View Post

    By chance, is this plant darker green, and a bit more compact than the others?
    Not trying to thread jump here , but is a dark green compact plant with curled leaves common ? and if so what is the cause ? I seem to have just such a plant

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    Quote Originally Posted by jessejames12345 View Post
    Not trying to thread jump here , but is a dark green compact plant with curled leaves common ? and if so what is the cause ? I seem to have just such a plant
    ::BUMP::

    I'm looking for a similar answer...

    thanks,
    Skeet

  20. #20
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    Curled leaves like shown in cwesto's pic are caused by rootbound or too much N. That looked like the rootbound one- they actually do look different, but it's subtle. Letting your plants get just a tiny bit rootbound before potting up isn't a bad thing; pot up to only SLIGHTLY larger pots so that you do it nice and often.
    That's not a strain issue. The only strain-related curling would happen very late in flower, and show in the single-bladed bud leaves only.

  21. #21
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    Some plants like Blueberry claw as a genetic trait.

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    My limited experience with BB is in the form of an F1 hybrid with Trainwreck, and while it didn't ALWAYS claw, it showed the symptom FAR before any other plants in the garden, of similar size, in the same volume pots, did.

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