i have a light that has funny hot spots, probly need a new bulb but ne way. ,.

and i think a some kind of toxicity does that too but with the flush it shouldnt be a prob, no worries

That raises a good question. I'm having a brain fart on what they're called, but do those spot diffusers that you can put in front of your lamps work at all?? I was thinking since I have such limited headroom that I might want to consider one of those. Or the water cooled Cool Tubes.


Hopefully any toxicity that was in there is gone for the most part. I did two nights of heavy flushing, soaking, agitating, and draining. I pulled the male out last night as he has done his job now. So now there's much more needed room in the tent.

I was able to flush the plants down to between 600-700. I went a bought distilled water last night. I'm now saving up for and RO system btw. So I mixed 4 gallons of 35 PPM with Pro Blend flowering to bring it up to 360. Fed, resulting in a PPM runoff of around 550, which is lower than the previous night, but this time included nutes. So it's not as high as I've seen, but I want to ease back into things. They seem to be doing well, lots of new growth, and more little bud sites popping up all over the place. I'll update pics in a couple of days. The very tall lady(the original problem plant) that I had bent over and tied down has vigorously brought her head up and is going towards the light...she's much happier now.

Thanks again everyone, all the help is much appreciated. Hopefully after I get to learn more I can start to return the favor.

*junk

Glad to hear they're perking-up.

If you untie her, she'll have a tendency to spring back upright. But check both ends of your string often, or you can strangle the plant. You can also tie-down the shoots as they compete to be the tallest, if need be.

__________________
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Holy shit...these things are blowing up now! I've never seen such a response in such a short amount of time. There are new bud sites all over the place, and the existing ones are going crazy.

Rusty: ya I'm gonna leave her tied down for the rest of the grow. Her head is going back up of course, and all along the main stem there is new growth and new hairs (pisitls?). I am keeping the tie around the stem open so it has room to grow, and she seems to be extremely happy with the situation. Good idea on the chutes, I never thought about that...but it's good to know as I'm sure they WILL compete. Now after I've seen all the growth, I'm getting impatient LOL. My first grow and I think I might be more interested in the final product than smoking the final product. I'll update with pics on a few days.
Science is fun.

On a side note, is there ANY way to tell what strain this might be??? They were bag seeds, out two different bags. But it was VERY nice stuff.

*junk

well they were perking up. Actually the two are doing goo...it's this one problem plant...

Pics 1 and 2 are leaves that are still on the plant.
Pic 3 are leaves I had to cut off
Pic 4 is a leaf still on the the, but a little higher up. (all the others are below the halfway point)
Pic 5 are the other two plants that seem to be doing ok, other than a small yellow spot on the one in the back.

After flushing friday and saturday nights, got the PPM down from 1400 to 700. Fed them sunday night and read the runoff to be in the mid 500's. Left them alone monday, and watered lastnight(tuesday night) with a very mild solution of nutes because I had some mix left over. Mixed some leftover with mostly tap water, had a runoff of 560PPM. Now I see this tonight. I still don't know what the ideal levels should be for my nute, coco combo. Botanicare's feeding schedule says nothing about PPM....so I'm kinda guessing here. I read somewhere on here that it takes about 3 days to see the effects of anything, so that would land this on about feeding day. Can someone please confirm if this is nute burn or not??

PH was always 5.9 going in and coming out with every watering.
I'm very confused as the other two seem to be doing ok with the same feed/water administration.

Thanks folks,

*junk

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First thing I thought of when I saw the leaves was H2O2 burn. (still green but crispy leaves) Also looks to me like ph swing (canoeing and twisting of the leaves) and overnute. (browning and leaf margin upturning and slight browning) With using the coco, do you use CalMag or something similar?
Wish I could help more, but I have no hands-on experience with hydro or coco growing. (might I recommend some peat-based soil, lol?)

Takes about three days to see anything positive. Bad shitcan happen overnight.

If this is happening only on the one plant, perhaps it's needs are different than the other two. (different strain?) I'd keep doing what you're doing on the two that are fine...and perhaps lower nute strength on the problem child.

__________________
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i gave my plants the wrong nutes about two + weeks ago and theyre finally coming round after a over 2 weeks after a transplant and all the older leaves that were effected continued to burn until gone, now shes purdy again.

im not recommending a transplant as mine were dirty girls in organics and i couldnt flush or better it did nothing.

i think rusty got it. and your ph jump could have here sayin wtf

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H2O2 burn?? I've never heard of that. Something else to research LOL.
Not that I doubt both suggestions, but how could it be PH swing when it's read stable for the last two weeks? The runoff is always the same as the level I pour in...5.8-6.1. Is that enough to be PH swing or am I missing something? I am NOT using calmag yet, but I need to. I just read, especially using distilled water (which I thought would be safer while adding nutes), that calmag is necessary...I was unaware. I'm stopping off and getting some tonight. It's weird though, all the new growth on the problem plant is ok, and it's still flowering nicely. It's jut the current/older leaves that are starting to get all outta whack. But I fear it may be indicative of something else that if I don't catch, could take the whole plant with it.

They are two different strains. The two good plants are one, the bad is another. So one needing different methods than the other doesn't surprise me and it's been something I've been meaning to ask but spaced it.

I will continue to use the same methods for the two good ones, and try to drive the bad one a little differently.

So to recap if I may ask:

-H2O2 burn...what is it?
-Can it be PH swing if it's always between 5.8-6.1, or am I not understanding that correctly?
-Could the lack of calmag be the total issue?
-Is the fact that the new growth looks good now, but the older fan leaves that are affected mean anything??

I forgot to mention I fed them Botanicare Pro Bloom for flowering if that helps.

Thanks again for the replies, you all rock! Hopefully I'll get this figured out.

*junk

5 days ago ur ph in was 6.5 +- 0.2 now your 5.9 so that is .6 +/- 0.4 but just that .6 can cause probs, hence the different ph levels between peat and coco

as far as the new growth being nicer than the old is a sign of a mobile element deficiancy the reverse is of an immobile deficiancy (ugly new growth) typically but the cause of deficiancy is usually from ph lockout generally as for what elements are mobile and immoblie is your homework for tonight LOL

it might be a reaction to the ph flux and just needs to grow out if everything is

the cal mag may fix if your prob is magnesium def i need to read back

first ph now distilled water ur sheets says tap not distilled

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That is correct. I was balancing the PH around 6.5, then read that coco does better at 5.8-6.1...so I corrected to that. Thanks for reminding me though...a lot has happened in the past week and I forget . But I am glad to know that even a fluctuation of .6 can make an impact. Still new to this "science" and how it all relates to one another.

Awesome, don't even know where to begin on that on LOL, but I'll figure it out. I have no problem with homework. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

That's sort of what I was thinking, and hoping.

I had been, through this whole grow up untill feeding them on sunday, using tap water that has a PPM level of 700. So at the time I filled out the form, yes I was using tap, and only used distilled once to feed(sunday), and a small amount mixed with tap on monday. The first flush I read the runoff at 1400, by the end of the second got it in the high 600's to high 700' depending on the plant. So knowing that I will never get the PPM below 600 using tap water, decided to use distilled for feeding only since tap plus nutes would bring the PPM to 1k or more. I still haven't been able to find a recommended PPM level for coco and the nutes I'm using. For all I know 1400 might be ok, and using 700PPM tap with nutes might still be ok. I don't know. I posted a tapwater thread...here...in the indoor growing section and it was suggested that 600 was high for cloning. Well I'm not now and don't plan on cloning. At this point I'm guessing on what the right PPM is for my setup. I know guessing isn't the right way to do it, but I can't find the right way so I'm going off cumulative reports of other growers and their methods. I've read anywhere between 600 and 1100 is good for flowering. Considering their state at the time, I didn't want to blast them with nutes to bring them up to 1k, kinda wanted to ease them back into the feeding if that makes sense.

Sorry for the confusion regarding tap/distilled Phatesh. But yes, I watered with distilled/nutes once on Sunday, and a small amount of the remaining mix with 2gallons of tap on monday night. PPM runoff Monday was 560...I did nothing last night and planning on water with plain tap tonight. I will update the form to state that I am now using tap for normal watering, and distilled with the nute mix(if I can edit that post). Unless I am able to find some solid PPM info.

Hopefully this all makes sense and I'm not annoying anyone too much LOL. If I am, I understand. Trying to keep these questions to a minimum, but am doing research between postings.

Thanks everyone!

*junk

H2O2 is hydrogen peroxide.

What I was trying to say, is that the soil mix is buffered (usually with lime) to get the mix to buffer to a set ph. In other words...an african violet mix is buffered differently than the cactus mixes, which are buffered differently than the coco mixes, which are buffered different than other mixes from other companies, and so on....Each mix and brand have their own formula, so dialing it in is sometimes a drag, unless you have lime and a ph pen.

If you are trying to fight against the ph of the soil, perhaps adjusting the soil or switching brands may be necessary.

For instance: If the soil is buffered to a 6.0, (which would have less lime than a mix buffered to a 6.8 or 7.0) then even if you add 7.0 water, runoff will be closer to what the soil is buffered to. Perhaps in the range of 6.1 to 6.3 or so, runoff. As the lime depletes in the soil, the buffering fades with it. Adding lime bumps the ph of the soil up.

This is where patience and a slow-go approach comes in handy. Eventually it all falls into place. Making small changes, one at a time will net you the best enlightenment, because you can see the cause and effect results. If you change three things, and it still doesn't work...which thing was the wrong thing?

Getting tired. Hope I got the point across. I think I'm explaining it more complicated than it has to be.

__________________
Your disappointments grow in direct proportion to your expectations.
If you are comfortable with your facts, you should assume I'll be comfortable challenging those facts.

Horticultural Myths and Folklore
Fox Farms Feeding Schedule
Dealing With Heat Issues in the Desert
Rusty's Bonsai Re-Vegging
CanCom Troubleshooting Forms

Yep you got the point across. Sorry for the fatigue. I have a tendency to over explain things too...hence my long replies. So I'm keeping this one short. I guess I miss understood the guy at my hydro shop when he said that coco will assimilate to what you put into it. I think I'm miss understanding quite a bit. His statement would lead me to believe that whatever I put in the coco, that's the ph level of the coco...maybe not now. I'm sticking to the one at a time method. So now I will just give them pure balnced 5.9 tap with no nutes and see what happens over the next week or so.

Thanxs Rusty and Phatesh for helping with the latest dilema.
*junk

Not tired of this thread, but just plain tired. Trying to get the ground ready for some fruit trees and blackberry and grape vines. (yes, they do grow in the desert) But it's friggin hot here, and no backhoe. Sucks the strength right out of ya.

Have you looked through some of the coco growlogs? Might pick-up a few good pointers I'm unable to provide. Could even ask a question or two about their techniques if the thread is still active. Not trying to push ya off on other's, but Dammit Jim, I'm just a soil guy. (sorry, t'was a crappy Star Trek reference)

__________________
Your disappointments grow in direct proportion to your expectations.
If you are comfortable with your facts, you should assume I'll be comfortable challenging those facts.

Horticultural Myths and Folklore
Fox Farms Feeding Schedule
Dealing With Heat Issues in the Desert
Rusty's Bonsai Re-Vegging
CanCom Troubleshooting Forms

OH...no I didn't mean that Rusty! LOL...not at all. I know how hot it is here (I've been working outside too), so I feel ya.

Funny you should mention that....I found WeedHound's most awesome grow log for Botanicare products that details his feeding schedule and most of what I've been looking for...PPM Levels. I know it's no absolute, but it's a guide. He feeds everyday I think. Crazy. That particular grow was in higromite rocks and the thread was in the hydro section. See my problem (I know,,,I have more than 1 ), is that I keep thinking I have a soil grow...I don't . Coco is considered more hydro than anything. Breaking that thought process of soil is my mistake. Even though I'm putting matter in a pot...it's not soil and shouldn't be treated as such. I stopped on the way home and picked up some CalMag and ClearEx. If we aren't Botanicare shareholders, we should be dammit LOL.

For those of you who have seen that particular log...what's your opinions??
For those of you who haven't...it's here. If anyone gets a chance let me know your thoughts.

This is all very fascinating to me. Makes me want to do it for a living, not just for the weed, but because this is actually fun as shit to me.

Thanks everyone so much. I'll keep updating. Hopefully this will help someone in my situation someday.

*junk

Profound revelations are always so...enlightening.

WeedHound is a knowledgeable grower, and a fine lady. Won't steer ya wrong.

__________________
Your disappointments grow in direct proportion to your expectations.
If you are comfortable with your facts, you should assume I'll be comfortable challenging those facts.

Horticultural Myths and Folklore
Fox Farms Feeding Schedule
Dealing With Heat Issues in the Desert
Rusty's Bonsai Re-Vegging
CanCom Troubleshooting Forms

Woops! LOL. Sorry WH

*junk

I water daily 8-10oz. and when needed a lil more
keep them moist and hungry

that would be the life huh, no more work just wake lite one and go into the LAB, it will make you mad, mad i tell you wahahahahah.

another wonderful harvest

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That's what I'm doing now just to sort of start back to square one, then I'll start a new feeding regimen. I need to get all the old shit out of there and just start from scratch...I think LOL. Seems to be the best philosophy so far!

Also, on cannn-uk.com I found a form you can fill out for your type of medium and it will tell you the recommended PPM levels for growing in coco throughout the stages of growth, but it can also include any type of medium. I can post the link if anyone is interested.

Ya now that would be the shit. I just wanna grow stuff now...anything lol.

I'll post updates in a day or two with some pics.

Thank you!

*junk

Update:

Well seeing as how I've found three credible sources that are telling me that this far into flowering the ppm feeding should be between 800 and 1k, I'm going with that for now. Essentially hitting them with nutes and calmag, then flushing with low PPM and clearex, repeat, repeat...per the feeding schedules I have found for coco.
So I tried the feeding last night when the light came and 1kPPM, and I'll flush tonight. I checked this morning before the light went off and they(including the problem plant) looked pretty good.

I'll see how it goes and update with some pics. Coco is an interesting grow.

*junk

The good: These plants are doing great now.

4 weeks into flowering.

I found a solid feeding regimen to stick by and it seems to be going good. Considering my first grow, I'm extremely happy with these two fine ladies. I have no idea the strain, wish I could find out somehow. In WeedHound's hydro grow guide, it is recommended that Sweet and Hydroplex is used. I am not using any of those two now, but will pick up them up next week.

Thanks again for everyone's help...most appreciated.
Next post is the problem plant.


*junk

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The not so bad, but better than it was:

The bitch of the bunch. She's been a work in progress but I think I have her figured out. There are still a few leaves not doing so well, but I'm thinking it's a remainder of the pre-existing issues due to my ignorance. Not that I'm not ignorant anymore LOL, just a bit more educated. I've done a few tests with her, one of them being skipping a day of watering. She didn't like it...not one bit, and she let me know. She is VERY expressive. I think she will be saved and at least yield a couple yummy nugs.

I am solely using RO water now BTW.

For the curious...I believe this was a culmination of a few problems: nut lock out due to poor PH(I think that's where it all started), probably some mag def after starting distilled water(now using RO water), etc. Treating coco like a soil grow...only watering a few times a week, giving the administered nutes time to harden and destroy some roots, also contributing to the lock out?? Point being is there was a myriad of issues going on. She's cleaning up though, flowering, and producing some noticeable trichs. Nothing close to the other two, but she IS producing.

The 3rd pic was how the problems were starting,,,then progressing to look like the other damaged leaves. Damage seems to have subsided.

To me, comparing these pics (taken 7-8-09) to the previous set (taken 6-30-09), both of this plant and the previous post...there seems to me to be some good overall improvement.

*junk

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looks good, some times i get a female that wont conform to my program and then i just put her out to flower and she dont come back

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Damn Phat...that's a bad deal. I'm not sure if she will yield much at all, if anything. What I'm most interested in (other than using her to learn from) is the seeds. I left the male in long enough to blow his nut, so they will all produce seeds I'm sure. But she is from a different strain I think....so that's my major motive in her.

*junk

Patience. You will lose some of the yield because of the seeds, (most of the yield) and it takes about 4 to 5 weeks minimum for seed to become viable.

__________________
Your disappointments grow in direct proportion to your expectations.
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Thanks for the tip Rusty! They're into their fourth week now, and I'm sure there's another four to go...at least. I'm not too concerned about the yield other than seeds. The two good plants will do me fine...at least long enough to get through the next grow. It's all personal and I'm not a heavy smoker. I prefer quality over quantity, they seem to be very nice quality...at least better than I used to purchase. LOL...."Used to purchase", that's great. These are actually bag seeds out of some VERY nice stuff that I was lucky to get my hands on, and lucky enough to have seeds.

Thanks again!

*junk