Thread: Global Warming?

Originally Posted by dragonrider

All of the hottest years on record are in the past few decades, mostly in very recent years. Shit is melting. It's getting hotter.

We can argue this forever and not get anywhere because the bottom line is nobody knows for sure whether temperature rising follows carbon dioxide rising or carbon dioxide rising follows temperature rising.

The "models" that are being used is a form of guesswork that has little to do with science.

Everybody seen the movie The Great Global Warming Swindle? Damn youtube has to break it up into 10 minute segments, but some good counter points made to the whole Gore, the world is dying, scenario.

I also disagree with the hottest years on record being in the last few decades. Using 50 year time frames when discussing climate change is just a speck of dust in eternity.

Let's crank it back a bit longer and see where we fall in temperature ranges:

Originally Posted by Fencewalker

We can argue this forever and not get anywhere because the bottom line is nobody knows for sure whether temperature rising follows carbon dioxide rising or carbon dioxide rising follows temperature rising.

Well, you are right about that. Nobody knows for sure. It's a gamble. How much do you want to bet? Wanna go all in and bet your entire civilization?

Originally Posted by Fencewalker

Using 50 year time frames when discussing climate change is just a speck of dust in eternity.

Yes, 50 years is a tiny speck of time. The most interesting thing to me on the second graph is the red line line at the very very far right edge of the graph that spikes straight up. You have half a million years of history and in our "tiny speck" of time the CO2 shoots to the highest level in the whole history. It's perfectly straight up. Nowhere in the entire history does it go up as steeply or as high. Fastest change and highest magnitude in the whole 500,000 years occuring within a generation or two. Can't wait to see what happens next!

If you really look at the graph, it looks like there are multiple periods of co2 spiking drasticly.
I did see that show FW, critics usually just discredit it based on the producer who is controversial, none the less it raises serious reasonable doubt, especially when you look at other evidence from multiple sources. I rank this up there with the is there life after death kind of stuff, I think you there are some people like dragon that really "believe in it" and I think it's great! If people want to live cleaner lives and impact their immediate environment in a positive way then great!
I just don't want this to be another excuse for the fed to take more of my money and give it to someone else or some special intrest group or bull shit project, I really "believe" that not buying the story is as valid as the contrary view, until science can advance and conclusively without a doubt convince me that it is just as real as the oranges growing on my trees in the backyard,I think this one will remain,
Up In the Air. Ha ha ha I am so clever, up in the air! I am perfectly capable of taking care of my immediate environment and I am confident that everyone else can too. I am not too worried about the earth melting. I take your bet, I am all in, the entire human race and this hemp lighter!

Yep, I'm all in too.

I managed to survive the global cooling "certainty" of the 70's.

Originally Posted by 8182KSKUSH

If you really look at the graph, it looks like there are multiple periods of co2 spiking drasticly.

Each increment on the graph is 10,000 years. The spikes that occur are usually in that range --- occurring over 10,000 years. You don't see anywhare on the graph a spike of 100ppm in the blink of an eye like you do at the very very end. And you don't see anywhere on the graph a spike as high as the one at the very very end.

That's where my concern comes from, an instantaneous spike to the highest levels ever.

Less than 700 years ago the Vikings were growing grapes in Greenland and there were Oranges grown in what is now Great Britain.

Global cooling then so radically changed the climate that there is almost no agricultural activity in these places.

Thank God that Global warming has finally kicked in a little bit to save us from the longer term Global Cooling disaster that we have suffered from for several centuries now.

regards,
Max Blast

Right, so 600 years ago, or thereabouts, people were going Oh it's a bit cold this year, we haven't had a good orange crop for a few years, they are saying that within the next ten to twenty years that rain could freeze before it hits the ground and we might die.

Originally Posted by McLeodGanja

Right, so 600 years ago, or thereabouts, people were going Oh it's a bit cold this year, we haven't had a good orange crop for a few years, they are saying that within the next ten to twenty years that rain could freeze before it hits the ground and we might die.

Yeah you are probably right we are all gonna die. What "they" say is always true! I am glad that god intervened and helped man kind avert the last ice age predicted in the middle of the last century by "they", "concensus of scientests". PHeww!

I actually talked to a climatologist from MIT for 45 minutes on the phone. He was in an anti-global warming documentary. Anyway, he said the movie was edited to make him sound like he was "against it."

What he told me basically is: (paraphrase, of course) global warming is real. We don't know all the factors right now, and we may not for a decade or even a century. It is a cause for concern, though. He also emphasized repeatedly that it is a very complex issue, and he was exasperated with people making a political issue out of it, and reducing such a complex issue to a ten second sound bite.

Personally, I think we need to stop deforestation, and all this fossil fuel pollution. The answer is hemp. Hemp for paper, plastics, and fuel. We can stop cutting down trees for paper, and we can replace all fossil fuels with ethanol and biodiesel from plants. I heard biodiesel vapors smell like french fries.

Al Gore flies a private jet, by the way.

Originally Posted by Fencewalker

We can argue this forever and not get anywhere because the bottom line is nobody knows for sure whether temperature rising follows carbon dioxide rising or carbon dioxide rising follows temperature rising.

The "models" that are being used is a form of guesswork that has little to do with science.

Everybody seen the movie The Great Global Warming Swindle? Damn youtube has to break it up into 10 minute segments, but some good counter points made to the whole Gore, the world is dying, scenario.

I also disagree with the hottest years on record being in the last few decades. Using 50 year time frames when discussing climate change is just a speck of dust in eternity.

Let's crank it back a bit longer and see where we fall in temperature ranges:

Oh yeah, that is the movie I was talking about. The Great Global Warming Swindle. I talked to one of the scientists in that movie. I just called him at his office. He was really cool. I forgot his name. I'll try and remember it.

Anyway, that movie is just as propagandistic as Al Gore's.

Originally Posted by angry nomad

Oh yeah, that is the movie I was talking about. The Great Global Warming Swindle. I talked to one of the scientists in that movie. I just called him at his office. He was really cool. I forgot his name. I'll try and remember it.

Anyway, that movie is just as propagandistic as Al Gore's.

I agree with you 100%, it should not be a POLITICIZED issue. It has nothing to do with politics. And from what I read in your post, even this man is hesitant to attribute this to mankind. We don't know conclusively yet, we will someday though. I don't want to pay for something that is at this point, a religious belief, as far as whether or not human activity is destroying the earth. I believe that people will always in the end do the right thing, I have faith in humanity I guess.

Yeah, EGore is a snake oil salesman, prime example of why it is not a political issue, the science is still out and he is preaching the holy friggin' word like it's all said and done. LET SCIENCE do it's work, the science behind climate change is far from anywhere near solid, don't legislate environmental morality to me when you have no idea what the hell you are talking about federal government thank you.

no matter what anyones here stance is on the global warming issue either you beleive we caused it or its not even happening i think we can all agree that suckin deisal fumes is bad. ever stan on a busy down town street and notice you can almost taste the deisal in the air? im sure thats not very healthy.

so maybe it is in our best intrest to go a little greener if for no other reason so we can breathe

Shit i clicked the wrong one!
Anyway ithink that global warming is not the issue which the world should be focusing on , but the bigger picture of Climate CHange

Dont tell me pumping oil which is trapped underground and then intruducing the bypruducts into the atmoshere, wont cause a change, logiclly it will definatly have some effect on the climate.

Originally Posted by skunke

Shit i clicked the wrong one!
Anyway ithink that global warming is not the issue which the world should be focusing on , but the bigger picture of Climate CHange

Dude! Clicked the wrong one! Are you a Florida voter?

Yes, climate change is the real issue. Calling it "global warming" suggests a forgone conlcusion about exactly what will happen. No one knows for sure. Probably there will be a periond of chaotic change, and no one can say for sure how it will end up.

Originally Posted by skunke

Dont tell me pumping oil which is trapped underground and then intruducing the bypruducts into the atmoshere, wont cause a change, logiclly it will definatly have some effect on the climate.

Exactly. Puttng all that carbon from under ground up into the air will have an effect. We don't know for certain what effect or how big, but we can be sure it will cause a change in the climate.

lotta good debate here, I have not seen the data on the rise of the other planets but I can tell you that their temperatures have not drasticaly started to rise in the past hundred years. and yes our planet goes through changes but these changes have been drasticaly speed up in the past hundred years or so. I am sure this is not the first time this planet has seen the green house effect but I dont think this time it was a natual occurance. But wether it is man or natual made, people are debating if it is even real. that is what we have to think about now. In the next 300 to 500 years we could be in another ice age, what ever the case is drastic changes are going to occur, such as deserts turning to forest, forests to deseerts, flooding, etc. We are starting to see species like frogs and deep sea creatures, die off or come into exsistance (how ever you want to think of it). these are all proof that the climate is drasticaly changing. The blame doesnt matter any more, the shit has hit the fan and no matter who or where you are your gonna get sticky eventualy.

mine is for bullshit too. my gf did a whole 20 page paper for her school. she's a hippy kinda girl and she thinks its bull too. "naturally occuring climate change" look it up

Total BS.
Good luck convincing me that global warming data doesn't follow an Al Gore type of agenda. (make big money on a contrived fear...job security)
Watts Up With That?: weather_stations Archives
Do you really think placement of sensors is random, un-biased and protected from outside influence?

Back in the 70's, glaciation (global cooling) was the panic.
Global cooling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
"In the 1970s, there was increasing awareness that estimates of global temperatures showed cooling since 1945. The general public had little awareness of carbon dioxide's effects on climate, although Paul R. Ehrlich mentions climate change from the greenhouse gases in 1968.[1] By the time the idea of global cooling reached the public press in the mid-1970s, the temperature trend had stopped going down, and there was concern in the climatological community about carbon dioxide's effects.[2] It was known that both natural and man-made effects caused variations in global climate."

Sounds uncannily familiar.

But wait...there's more fear on the way:
Canadian Scientists Fear Global Cooling | NewsBusters.org

Ok, so grab your jackets and your shorts...It's going to be a cold/warm day tomorrow.

Guess the only thing to do is grow more plants. Carbon Dioxide Absorption

Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

Total BS.
Good luck convincing me that global warming data doesn't follow an Al Gore type of agenda. (make big money on a contrived fear...job security)

The big money and job security concerns are on the side of industries that have a vested interest in the status quo. Industries fear losing money if they have to change the way they operate to mitigate their emision of greenhouse gasses. Most of the research casting doubt on climate change is funded by these industries who have a big money stake in the outcome. That's where the money is. I've known people involved in various forms of research all my life, and believe me, there's not much money in it --- certainly nothing compared to the oil, coal, and auto industries.

The thing about these industries is that they are going to lose most because of their short sightedness. If they don't look ahead and adapt to a changing future, they will lose everything. In the 70's oil crisis, Japanese car comapnies came into this country and sold fuel efficient cars when US companies were still pumping out muscle cars. Those Japanese companies got a toehold because Detroit didn't face up to the future, and the Japanese have continued to grow their market share ever since. Same thing is happening now with appliance brands. If US industry doesn't start to adapt soon, the Asian and European companies who already have a head start are going to come here and eat our lunch.

We used to have the most innovative companies in the world. Not anymore.

Without any supporting documentation, your statements fall on deaf ears.
Please explaim how carbon credits will lower greenhouse emmisions?

Global Warming Solution Known as ‘Carbon Credits’ Collapses | NewsBusters.org
So who is it that benefits from all this?
Creators of carbon credit scheme cashing in on it

Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

Without any supporting documentation, your statements fall on deaf ears.
Please explaim how carbon credits will lower greenhouse emmisions?

Global Warming Solution Known as ‘Carbon Credits’ Collapses | NewsBusters.org
So who is it that benefits from all this?
Creators of carbon credit scheme cashing in on it

I'm not going to restate all my previous supporting evidence for you. Read my previous 20 or so posts in this thread. I'm pretty much done.

As for carbon credits --- I never brought it up, so I don't figure it's on me to explain it to you. Carbon credits and carbon offsets would not be my preferred way of dealing with this problem. However, similar cap-and-trade mechanisms did work for reducing acid rain --- they were very effective. Many industries prefer these kinds of market-oriented mechanisms for dealing with pollution.

Originally Posted by dragonrider

I'm not going to restate all my previous supporting evidence for you. Read my previous 20 or so posts in this thread. I'm pretty much done.

Below was the only link you provided. The rest of the 20 or so posts appear to be your suppositions.

Originally Posted by dragonrider

I had to go look up this solar system warming thing because it was pretty much the first I had heard about it. This is the first article I found: Sun Blamed for Warming of Earth and Other Worlds | LiveScience

Also, using the first article you come across in researching for truth, is a lazy way to represent the truth. Is this a common practice, or just an isolated incidence?

Originally Posted by Rusty Trichome

Below was the only link you provided. The rest of the 20 or so posts appear to be your suppositions.


Also, using the first article you come across in researching for truth, is a lazy way to represent the truth. Is this a common practice, or just an isolated incidence?

I am a lazy moron with nothng but my own suppositions. You win. Climate change is not real.

No one knows anything that they think they know about "Global Warming"....That being said the Earth is around 3.5 to 4.6 billion years old. BILLIONS!!! Of years, the "Expert Scientests" can get wonderful data from the glaciers and all but thats only Hundreds of thousands of years of data( NOT EVEN CLOSE TO THE 3.5 - 4.6 BILLION THAT THE EARTH HAS BEEN HERE) and there are still more billions of year to look at after that. So knowing that how can anyone in there rite mind say that they have the answer to this question of global warming. Everything is speculation. I mean, shit, its priddy fucking obvious that theres a fucking pattern of co2 build up and what not but, we are just making what we think is an educated guess about the situation. Theres no way that one can think they have the real answer to our problem( UNLESS THEY LEAVE OUT EVIDENCE THAT IS AGAINST THEIR ARGUMENT )
Because there is simply no know way to figure out if it ever happend before(global warming) or not.

So I say just like with religion, we are( as a world ) making up answers for what we do not know about.

^^ earth is older than that, 5.5 Billion is the current theroy. And the model is acurate so far, up until now.