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Thread: Green Dragon

  1. #1
    primster is offline Registered+
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    Green Dragon

    how can i make green dragon without everclean the LCBO's in my city what could i use to subsitute it ?

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  3. #2
    Master Wu is offline Registered+
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    Hi Primster,

    I posted this detailed recipe and explanation here:
    The Definitive Green Dragon (Cannabis Tincture)

    It's fast to make, and works like a charm. Expect onset between 1.5 hrs (empty stomach) and 3.5 hrs (ugh--if you had a full stomach).

    In direct answer to your question, use Bacardi 151.

    Best,
    Master Wu
    Alchemist

  4. #3
    GreenDragonManiac is offline Registered
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    It looks like the mods prefer that I post my web page in this section:
    http://www.GreenDragonSoda.com

  5. #4
    GreenDragonManiac is offline Registered
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    I should probably add the pre-baking part to the web site...

    Mind if I copy your 4-part recipe and give you credit?

  6. #5
    GreenDragonManiac is offline Registered
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    There is conflicting information on the Internet on this issue. Does anybody know how much THC A there is compared to THC?

  7. #6
    Master Wu is offline Registered+
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    Please feel free to use whatever part of my recipe you like.

    I know there is conflicting information on the pre-baking. My experience is that this does significantly improve the potency of the extract (but I'm open to other scientific data on this issue).

    Master Wu
    Alchemist

  8. #7
    Master Wu is offline Registered+
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    Update to my prior hasty post...

    GreenDragonManiac

    I agree there is conflicting information on the pre-baking. My experience is that this does seem to significantly improve the potency of the extract (but I'm open to other scientific data on this issue).

    By the way GDM you have put together an excellent recipe. I didn't know about the citrus extract having such a high alcohol content. I wish I had found your site before spending so much time developing my recipe. However it is nice to find someone who has an independent confirmation of my Green Dragon recipe/procedure. Good science is peer-reviewed.

    Feel free to use any part of my recipe that is helpful. Perhaps you might even want to copy the whole post and/or combine the two. Hopefully between the two of us we'll dispel all the misinformation out there about making this magical elixer. If you make it clear that both recipes were arrived at independently then it should give others some level of confidence to other alchemists.

    One small disagreement. I don't think putting the GD in a water bath is particularly dangerous as long as caution is used. It is the most efficient way to prepare the extract. If the vent fan is running and the extract is placed in a water bath to control temperature as well as provide water steam, I think it is relatively safe (certainly much more safer than the microwave method as you rightly point out). I like to use a much wider pan for the water bath (9" wide by 3" high). It provides much more water vapor to dilute any of the ethanol vapors that are evaporated.

    Master Wu
    Alchemist

  9. #8
    GreenDragonManiac is offline Registered
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    Thanks Master Wu for the response. I still don't know the comparison of THC to THC A in actual numbers. It might depend on the strain and how it's grown. I'll spend some time researching that this week to see, since I was gone over the weekend.

    I can't test the pre-bake idea because I don't actually use marijuana these days, but maybe a friend could do a comparison. You said it makes a difference, but did you make two batches exactly the same way? And are you sure it wasn't just a different stash? Sometimes even the same bag of weed will have different potencies in different buds, or depending on how close you are to the tip.

    Yeah, originally when I put up the web page, I didn't think the alcohol was a huge safety issue using the water, but somebody told me that 3 to 4 people die every year making green dragon. Alcohol does boil at a lower temperature than water, so an accidental boil-over will throw a lot of alcohol vapor into the kitchen, so the ventilation is important. I took down the web page down last summer and put it back up recently with some changes. The microwave is just plain stupid (I can't believe I tried that), but there are a few people here and there on the Internet talking about using a microwave to do it.

  10. #9
    darkside's Avatar
    darkside is offline Registered+
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    use an electric crock pot and plug it in outdoors. safety issue solved.
    Legalize it, don't criticize it.
    Legalize it yeah, yeah
    And I will advertise it.

  11. #10
    Master Wu is offline Registered+
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    I agree that it is easy for people to do something incredibly dangerous--like doing the extraction in the microwave. Personally I wouldn't even give microwave instructions lest they be confused with the "don't do pot it is bad for you" type of disclaimer. You should simply say "DON'T USE THE MICROWAVE!!!"

    The reason people get hurt (and die) is they try to boil the alcohol directly over an open flame--very stupid and very dangerous. The water bath is quite safe (3000F for open flame vs. 212F for water bath). Again make it clear that under no conditions should anyone put a pot of alcohol over an open flame or directly on an electric burner. It MUST be in a water bath. If they put it in a water bath then it should be quite safe.

    Master Wu
    Alchemist

  12. #11
    GreenDragonManiac is offline Registered
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    I added your recipe with a few notes and followed your suggestion to remove the microwave recipe. Please let me know what you think...

    I'm taking your word on the dry-bake. I've actually suspected something like that based on cooking pot in vegetable oil and getting very mixed results. It's been awhile, but that might explain why sometimes I hardly felt anything and other times I was flat on my back going through a panic attack. Do some of the general cooking recipes use a dry-bake? That would strongly support the idea of using it for green dragon. Oil does have a higher boiling point than alcohol, so the dry-bake might not be necessary if the boiling process mixes oxygen into the oil.

  13. #12
    GreenDragonManiac is offline Registered
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    Actually, the oxygen doesn't make a difference. I'm too tired to be posting. The higher boiling point of oil might explain a lot about why dry-baking is so important for making green dragon and not special brownies.

    "In fresh green plants, the cannabinoids are primarily present in carboxylic acid forms, which are changed into the corresponding neutral compounds by aging or heat (for example, burning or cooking).159, 174 THC acid (THCA) for example, is apparently psychotropically inactive, and must be decarboxylated to THC prior to administration in order to produce significant effects. It has been suggested that some decarboxylation occurs in living plants growing in the tropics."

    From
    http://www.druglibrary.org/SCHAFFER/...dain/ldc2b.htm

  14. #13
    Master Wu is offline Registered+
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    That is a great update. I think between the two of us we have produced an excellent guide. Well done and thanks for the acknowledgement.

    (Also great job on finding the druglibrary article--it seems to confirm our claim that the pot should be heated prior to extraction to decarboxylate the THCA).

    Master Wu
    Alchemist

  15. #14
    GreenDragonManiac is offline Registered
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    Yeah, I've wondered about that before, but I thought it must be my imagination because of all the sites saying that the need for heat is a myth. (That's not exactly a lie either, but heat makes a big difference.)

    Master Wu, do you have email? Mine is on the web page. If you could confirm the email by posting something here...

  16. #15
    GreenDragonManiac is offline Registered
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    I like the idea of using a microwave for decarboxylation:
    http://cannabisculture.com/articles/3037.html

    Some of the cannabinoids vaporize at temperatures lower than THC's boiling point, and it's not just THC but the other compounds that are part of the experience. I've heard that the cannabinoids can also evaporate a little bit during the extraction process.

    I think the most efficient method would be to use the microwave for decarboxylation, then use the solar method for extraction. No losses in either step.

  17. #16
    Big Calhoun is offline Registered+
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    So does the alcohol you use make a difference in the extraction? I had tried to make a green dragon on a small scale years ago but it didn't work. I soaked about 2 grams of some good bud in a glass with Vodka. I put a top over it and gave it a good shake and just left it sit. Every two weeks or so, I would go back and kinda shake it again. Finally, after about 2 or 3 months, I poured the liquid through a strainer into a glass. I even pushed on the herb through the strainer to make sure I got as much as I could. Held my nose and took a shot...nothing.

  18. #17
    GreenDragonManiac is offline Registered
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    Vodka only has I think 40 to 50% alcohol so it would take much longer time and not extract as well. If the storage place is too cold, then that might also explain why it didn't work. Bacardi 151 has 75% and works a lot better. Everclear or lemon extract work even better. Also, decarboxylation of THCA is rarely mentioned in any of the green dragon recipes but it makes a huge difference in the strength of the green dragon. If the weed is fresh, then it needs to be dried thoroughly using a microwave or oven. When you smoke weed the flame instantly converts THCA to THC, but if you eat or drink THCA it will not get you high. Hope that helps. I understand your disappointment as I have done a lot of experiments to get it right. It sounds like Master Wu did a lot of experimenting too. The easiest way (I haven't tested this yet) is to probably use a microwave to dry the weed (less likely to accidentally vaporize the THC), then use lemon extract and store in a warm cupboard (Everclear is not available in some places).

  19. #18
    Left is offline Registered+
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    i had saved up a lot of stems and then put it in some vodka but i used like twice as much because it was lower alc. by vol. then normaly used. the stems probably dont have that much thc in or on them so i would think it is absorbed prity quickly. It is already green but its only been like 9 hours buti want to drnk it now. Do you think most of the thc in the stems has been absorbed so it will effect me when i drink it?
    "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
    Ben Franklin

  20. #19
    Left is offline Registered+
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    How well does Lemon extract work and why? and when i microwave it for 2 minutes does it have to be on any specific power level setting?
    "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."
    Ben Franklin

  21. #20
    PRiMe4u is offline Registered
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    http://www.RogerRichard.com http://www.BourkeEngine.com need http://www.Hemp4Fuel.com

    Quote Originally Posted by darkside
    use an electric crock pot and plug it in outdoors. safety issue solved.
    [SIZE="4"]Sounds SAFER. My crock boils fast. Will the EXPERTs ever be able to help me wonder if using a vegetable de-hydrator might be an OK temp ??? It make my fresh cut closet stash burn great and work well. No time delay for cure longer than like 6 hours or ??? I need a kick-butt thermometer to know ALL temperature possibilities to help me learn, I assume. Details,details,details. Will an oil boil or water and butter boil ever convert THCA to THC ??? At least 150 degrees iz the known magic answer for us for now. I will temperature test my "Beef Jerky" machine to see if it can copy oven cure. Imagine a water cure/filter/cleaned HEMP-CANVAS that is power upgraded with the THCA to THC conversion and tinctured beyond belief. I want the FUTURE NOW.

  22. #21
    timmyrecordz is offline Registered+
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    i was the 420th person to look at this ! ha

  23. #22
    hahaitsdoogle's Avatar
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    could i use like 5 or 6 grams of partially vaped chronic???

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