A Review on Miracle-Gro: Soil and Fertilizers

Discussion in 'Basic Growing' started by Kush Over, Feb 28, 2006.

  1. Kush Over

    Kush Over Registered+

    All right. Now. To start this off, I had to smoke a joint. I hear a lot of shit from both sides of the spectrum; on my left there's people saying Miracle-Gro is complete fucking garbage as a soil and fertilizer. While on my right there are those few people that say Miracle-Gro is 'all right', and a few that say it's great. Now, first I'll address some of the common fuck-ups regarding Miracle-Gro's famous, all-time favorite 'three month continuous feed' potting soil.

    "I burnt my seedlings when I tried sprouting with this shit," or,"Don't add fertilizers until after the three months." Stop. Just stop. Now people, we're all stoners, and I'll admit it myself --- I forget to do shit. Now, ask yourself this; "Did I read the NPK value of the soil?"

    Ingredients: This product is formulated from forest products
    compost and Canadian sphagnum peat moss, perlite,
    a wetting agent, and fertilizer (see below).
    In Georgia, this product is formulated from 50-60% forest
    products compost, and Canadian sphagnum peat moss,
    perlite, a wetting agent and fertilizer (see below).

    Miracle-Gro Potting Mix, 0.21 - 0.07 - 0.14
    Total nitrogen (N)* ......................0.21%
    0.12% ammoniacal nitrogen
    0.09% nitrate nitrogen
    Available phosphate (P2O5)*......0.07%
    Soluble potash (K2O)..................0.14%

    Derived from: Coated and uncoated: ammonium nitrate,
    ammonium phosphate, calcium phosphate, and
    potassion sulfate.

    *A portion of the nitrogen, phosphate and potash has been
    coated to provide 0.15% coated slow release nitrogen (N), 0.03%
    coated slow release available phosphate(P2O5) coated
    slow release soluble potash(K2O).

    Information regarding the cotents and levels of metals in this product is available at: http://www.regulatory-info-sc.com/

    Now, looks to me like there really doesn't seem like much going on as far as NPK value goes, a whole .21-.07-.14. This isn't burning your seedling, preventing it from coming through the soil, there's no fucking (excuse my English) way. More than likely what people are doing wrong is at the time they put the soil in whatever container they're using; pressing the soil by hand. The soil then becomes so tight that the seed's taproot can't even penetrate the soil in it's search for water and a means to establish stability. You must understand that simply the weight of the soil in the container, on it's self, is enough. You can gently pat the soil to get any major voids (minor ones, where air is present, are good), but don't try to fit as much dirt as you can into the container when you pour the soil in.

    Maybe what they're doing is adding their own nutrient teas? Or, possibly adding more fertilizers in hopes that it will promote quicker sprouting!? Seriously. Mother nature, and this isn't the Native American/Son-of-a-Hippy talk you'll come to read from me, has done it better than we could possibly ever do. I mean this in the way that if you just put that little (viable) seed in the medium, and water it, it'll at least sprout. No teas, no special germination methods (although I seriously, seriously reccommend germinating before planting), just the seedling using up the energy it's mother stored in it's embryo. After it's stem, craned over, breaks through the medium; the cotyledons opening to begin photosynthesis, one must appreciate this thing, this plant, given to us by whoever, or whatever, created this fucked up Universe.

    Another very strong possibility is that you bought a relatively 'fresh' bag --- the temporary fungicide placed in all Miracle-Gro's soil and organic alternatives products intended to prevent mold and fungi growth has made it impossible for good, plant beneficiary bacteria to propagate in time to make a nice, comfortable enviornment for your plant. I'd say always open a fresh bag a week or so before you intend to use it, and shake up the soil a bit every couple of days so it'll air out better. Then, you can make the pots with it.
    ...After a thirty minute break with another joint and listening to Led Zepplin - When the Levee Breaks (I live by New Orleans, by the way.. heh). I remember why I did this; to review Miracle-Gro's products, well.. those I have. I pretty much covered the soil, the treacherous continuous feed. I wouldn't want to throw in three - four more paragraphs regarding the utter lack of trace elements and secondary nutrients to go along with it's mediocre NPK rating people complain is killing their plants, but whatever. I currently own and will be reviewing the following; Miracle-Gro Expert Gardener All Purpose Plant Food, Miracle-Gro Azalea/Camellia/Rhododendron Plant Food, and Miracle-Gro Bloom Booster Flower Food.

    Water Soluble All Purpose Plant Food, 15-30-15
    Total nitrogen (N)* .......................15%
    4.8% ammoniacal nitrogen
    3.2% nitrate nitrogen
    7.0% urea nitrogen
    Available phosphate (P2O5)*.......30%
    Soluble potash (K2O)...................15%
    Boron (B)...................................0.02%
    Copper (Cu)...............................0.07%
    0.07% water soluble copper
    Iron (Fe).....................................0.15%
    0.15% chelated iron
    Manganese (Mn).......................0.05%
    0.05% chelated manganese
    Molybdenum (Mo)..................0.0005%
    Zinc (Zn)...................................0.06%
    0.06% water soluble zinc

    Derived from: Urea, Ammonium Phosphate, Potasssium Phosphate,
    Potassium Nitrate, Boric Acid, Copper Sulfate, Iron EDTA, Manganese EDTA,
    Ammonium Molybdate, Zinc Sulfate

    Water Soluble Azalea/Camellia/Rhododendron Plant Food, 30-10-10
    Total nitrogen (N)* .......................30%
    3.0% ammoniacal nitrogen
    27.0% urea nitrogen
    Available phosphate (P2O5)*.......10%
    Soluble potash (K2O)...................10%
    Boron (B)...................................0.02%
    Copper (Cu)...............................0.07%
    0.07% water soluble copper
    Iron (Fe)...................................0.325%
    0.325% chelated iron
    Manganese (Mn).......................0.05%
    0.05% chelated manganese
    Molybdenum (Mo)..................0.0005%
    Zinc (Zn)...................................0.07%
    0.07% water soluble zinc

    Derived from: Urea, Ammonium Phosphate, Potasssium Phosphate,
    Potassium Chloride, Boric Acid, Copper EDTA, Iron EDTA, Manganese EDTA,
    Sodium Molybdate, Zinc EDTA

    Water Soluble Bloom Booster Flower Food, 10-52-10
    Total nitrogen (N)* .......................10%
    10% ammoniacal nitrogen
    Available phosphate (P2O5)*.......52%
    Soluble potash (K2O)...................10%
    Boron (B)...................................0.02%
    Copper (Cu)...............................0.07%
    0.07% water soluble copper
    Iron (Fe).....................................0.15%
    0.15% chelated iron
    Manganese (Mn).......................0.05%
    0.05% chelated manganese

    Derived from: Ammonium Phosphate, Potasssium Phosphate,
    Boric Acid, Copper Sulfate, Iron EDTA, and Manganese EDTA.

    Now, first I'll say; shit, those are some pretty potent NPK ratings, especially the Bloom Booster 10-52-10 that I'm actually glad I picked up. Still, you could easily nuke your plant, and most of us have already done just that with Miracle-Gro's products. But look at the cotent labeling, it clearly denotes a worthwhile product; all three are worth using on a grow, in regulation of course. I personally saw a difference in my previous grows that I used these products on than those I did without. Why wouldn't you give your plant the shit it's craving, no matter what brand it is? It really doesn't give a shit, just don't go overboard with it. Too much of a good thing is sometimes a bad thing, these being some of them. That being said, I usually never exceeded 1/8th teaspoons of both 15-30-15/10-52-10 [ Flowering ], mixed in a 20 ounce bottle of R/O water for each feeding. Hopefully after my current plant is done flowering in the grow cab, and my digital camera is fixed, I'll be able to post pictures in a seperate thread of the upcoming study on Miracle-Gro's products fed solely to a cannabis plant, and end this ridiculous claim that Miracle-Gro is bad. Until then, grow on.
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  2. turtle420

    turtle420 Banned

    Well, this is flying in the face of everything I read... but your arguments are convincing.

    Interesting post... long, but very interesting. Now I see why you had to smoke a joint. :)

    Miracle-Gro... hmmm... ;) Thanks KushOver...

    In any event, my girls are hydro... sooo... could you smoke another joint and write another post about General Hydroponics VS Advanced Nutrients?

    LOL!!! Just kiddin' dude... good info!
  3. Kush Over

    Kush Over Registered+

    I probably went through ten grams worth of joints gathering all this crap (information). Some of it, believe it or not, I had to copy from the fuggin' box. A pain, considering how much of it I buy in bulk! Hydroponics, in general, will always beat conventional soil/organic methods in the growth speed department. Everyone knows this --- or should by now! I'd like to see a report on honest comparisons in flavor, bud weight/number, and overall plant health to be honest. From same strains, of course. Possibly even clones; one in soil and the other in, say, a one - two gallon DWC bubbler.

    Oh, and I'd like to throw this in here. It's another product that I found while out shopping..

    Total nitrogen (N)* ..........................1%
    1% urea nitrogen
    Calcium (Ca)...............................2.50%
    Magnesium (Mg)..........................1.00%
    0.50% water soluble magnesium
    Sulfur (Su).................................4.50%
    4.50% combined sulfur
    Iron (Fe)....................................4.50%
    1.25% water soluble iron
    Manganese (Mn).........................0.07%
    0.04% water soluble manganese
    Molybdenum (Mo)......................0.0005%
    Zinc (Zn)....................................0.07%
    0.07% water soluble zinc

    I picked it up because of the heavy trace element and secondary nutrient boost. It's a great product from the 'looks' of it, haven't had to use it yet, though. And I'm glad I didn't. It wasn't until relatively recently that Ironite's been taken off of shelves in some states, but not mine, due to a discovery made --- Ironite contains high amounts of cadmium, arsenic, and lead; enough to cross the PPM regulation set by the USDA almost twenty-three times [ for arsenic ], and 1.5 times [ for lead ]. While it's not readily available to the plant in the elements' mineral form, it's been a focus of some to study the longterm effects of such high amounts of arsenic and lead when it's been sitting dormant in soil --- to see if the elements do infact become available. You can read all about that here: http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/eh/risk/studies/ironite.htm#test

    How'd you like to be smoking some lead and arsenic? LoL
  4. JohnnyPotGrower

    JohnnyPotGrower Registered+

    just a note...

    i dont know how this effects your argument but:
    in reviewing the NPK ratio of M.G. soil you stated that it was .21-.07-.14; that is equivalent to a 3-1-2 NPK ratio, that also translates to a 45-15-30 ratio which is much different from the (i think) suggested 15-30-15 ratio for growing cannabis. Could it be an excess of N (nitrogen)? Perhaps too much P (phosphorus)... or it could also be too much K (potassium). Either way I wouldnt discount the different ratio of nutes in MG soil, it is not insignifficant.

    That being said, I am actually 4 weeks into a grow using miracle grow soil, and I must say I have not seen any of the adverse effects people warn about yet. I have had better grows, but so far I dont think there are any downsides to this grow that can definitly be attributed to the MG soil.

    Just want to enter in one more alleged "problem" of MG soil...
    It concerns MG soil's 3month release of ferts. Because it releases ferts in an uncontrolled manner, I have heard some say that after 3 months your shouldnt be giving your plant ferts because it is too close to harvesting. Even if you harvest 3 weeks after fertilizing some of it will remain in the plant (including the buds) and you dont want to smoke bud that has remnants of fertilizer in it. For one it is dangerous, and secondly it gives a bad smell and taste to the buds which makes smoking it unpleasant. Again I dont know if this is definitly true, but it is something I have repeatedly heard.

    If my grow with MG soil goes succesfully I will be sure to post comments on it.

  5. the image reaper

    the image reaper Registered+

    I've always had excellent results using MIRACLE-GRO ... I never used their potting soil, only their regular green powder, mixed with spring water ... I only use it to foliar feed, spraying undersides of the leaves, etc ... I sprayed once a week with the Miracle-Gro, and sprayed with plain water the remaining days ... I never used any other nutrients or fertilizers ... great results :thumbsup:
  6. Zandor

    Zandor Registered+

    I need to run today, but this is going to be fun!!

    Kush, I hope you enjoy friendly debate?

    I look forward to more of your posts.

    UNDYINGIMAGE Registered

    Miracle grow is a great medium.I've had 100% success. Kush is right. Look at the ingredients.
  8. job1.5

    job1.5 Registered+

    my problem with MG was i had a hard time controlling the ph.
  9. del...

    del... Registered+

    i too use m.g.'s ferts...same npk ratio but mine's at 24-8-16 and i dilute it further to 1/3 of what directions call for. they get this after week 3 or 4, depending on their needs and then every 2 weeks until flowering. i use schultz' bloom or superbloom usually (at same rate as the veg ferts) but this year going to try 'pure blend pro bloom' on half and the usual on the other half. they only get 2, maybe 3 applications total during flowering...
  10. polskatrawa

    polskatrawa Registered

    you forgot to add in your thread that Miracle Gro soil does NOT contain Limestone which controls the ph in the soil so after 4 weeks of growing your ph goes way down and locks out almost all the nutrients there, so you need to watch out for that and buy a ph upper
    it is better to buy soil with limestone than MG. unfortunatelly found out the hard way,my plants almost died but i transplanted to different soil and saved them
  11. Zandor

    Zandor Registered+

    What is the difference between Miracle-Gro and other commercially available

    fertilizers and hydroponics nutrients?

    Most of the fertilizers readily available are very general purpose mixes

    that do not work well for all types of plants.

    Most commercially available fertilizers are meant for fertilizing plants

    grown in soil and do not contain all the necessary trace elements.

    Spectialy fertilizers contain all those trace elements, and are also made

    to be very soluble so that the plants can easily uptake the nutrients from

    the watering solution. Those other fertilizers will work to grow plants

    but they cannot compare to the results you will experience with our

    nutrients. Most commercially available fertilizers are like junk food for

    your plants giving you quick results that do not last very long.

    If you want to grow right then use the right nutrients.

    Miracle Grow is not for dichotomous short day resin producing plants.

    Tomatoes & flowers are not in the same group as Marijuana plants.

    That is why you do not use Miracle Grow or anything that has the name

    Miracle Grow in it for Marijuana period.
  12. Pharmaecopia

    Pharmaecopia Registered

    miracle grow is greeeeaaat!
  13. karmaxul

    karmaxul Banned

    I dont believe in chemical but the numbers on the potting mix are very good in terms of ratios. They are very simular to my product, so I guess they know a bit about chemistry. The fert NPK they sell I do not agree with but I dont agree with chemicals anyway so what the hell.

    One love
  14. Kush Over

    Kush Over Registered+

    Well, shit. I can't really say much on this thread that I started -- I mean, I can't respond with the evidence to back my claims, not yet at least. I began another thread in the 'Indoor Growing' area.

    The other thread was intended for the purpose of following the life of my plant, a female, that's currently in a 10/14 / flowering cycle. For the past month -- since the beginning of inducing the night cycles from a 24/0 vegetative -- I've been feeding it the 10-52-10. A fourth a teaspoon to a liter of water each feeding -- I feed it this way for two feedings, then skip a feeding for plain R/O water the next, and the cycle is then repeated. It loves it, honestly does. Now, I have a question regarding the NPK rating and what a rehashed OverGrow FAQs site says about calculating the proper NPK rating of water soluble fertilizers [ I'll supply the link below ].

    The site states that, "as a general guideline, the N-P-K numbers can be roughly converted to elemental PPM. N, nitrogen is the only element to convert from the label at the ratio of 1 to 1. P2O5, phosphorus oxide, converts to elemental P, phosphorous at a ratio of 1 to .4. K2O, potassium oxide, converts to elemental K, potassium at a ratio 1 to .8. This demonstrates the radical difference between an N-P-K of 1-1-1 and an actual elemental ratio of 1-.4-.8."

    The question is; wouldn't a water soluble concoction such as the 10-52-10 produce a true NPK rating of -roughly- 10-20.8-8?

    Last edited: Mar 19, 2006
  15. rodekyll

    rodekyll Registered+

    I use miracle grow or black gold soils because they're all that's available up here. I lean toward the miracle grow, but only because it's less expensive. I've been pleased with the consistent performance of the soils. I've burned roots for sure, but I've been able to trace the damage back to my errors, generally in overfertilizing. I've not lost clones to miracle gro, and I've not noticed any wierd nutrient-uptake issues with my plants.

    I fert with miracid at 1/2 strength every other feeding. It keeps the ph right where I want it and the plants seem to like it fine. I'm still working on finding the best bloom-period fert, but rapidbloom doesn't seem to hurt the plants any. Personally, I look at the big 3 numbers and the trace elements when I buy a fertilizer. I don't want anything too "hot", and I don't care for a lot of organic nutrients in my indoor garden. I think it promotes mould and critters. I don't think the plants know or care where their N, K, and P come from, as long as it's there.
  16. rodekyll

    rodekyll Registered+

    Zandor -- Are you involved somehow in the fertilizer industry?
  17. Zandor

    Zandor Registered+

    Just as a user who looks for the very best and yes I have been around that long I normally get asked to try all the new stuff from most companies. I write reports for them so they keep giving me free stuff. I have worked for Advanced Nutrients before a few times as a consultant as well as the work I have done with Advanced transformer here in so cal designing transformers. (I do have a degree in Electrical engineering). They are working on a transformer where one transformer can power 4000w of hid light and use less power then 2 normal transformers.
  18. ATL Remote

    ATL Remote Registered

    Miracle Gro

    Don't some of you tire so over this scientific mumbo-jumbo? In retrospect we are growing nothing more than a weed, and we are probably providing much more so than nature on its behalf. Miracle Gro is loaded with nutrients and will produce bountiful buds. The mistakes we mortals make is in insufficient light, lack of humidity, and of course unnecessary pampering with additional nutrients and over watering. This paranoia over nutrients and watering is what kills your plants. Just let them grow and you will see substantial results.
  19. Garden Knowm

    Garden Knowm Registered+

    often i have witnessed him shovel shit off this site.... i think he is an independent contractor

  20. Garden Knowm

    Garden Knowm Registered+

    Using the soil is much different than using the MG fertilizers..

    The soil is a much larger challenge,.... and many people will have trouble with extended ... big yield grows using t his soil...

    the nutrients are for "dummies".. i say this with an affectionate tone..

    they are very straight forward....


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