Can I make feminized seeds from feminized seeds?

Discussion in 'Advanced Techniques' started by THContent, Jun 27, 2010.

  1. THContent

    THContent Banned

    I know it sounds weird. I am planning on buying 10 Feminized G13 Haze seeds. Basically what I wanna know, is it possible and if so, how would I make feminized seeds from an already feminized plant without making hermaphrodites? Basically I would get regular seeds, but they do not offer them, only feminized. And please do not go off on a tangent about cloning, because if that was what I am after I would have said it from the get go, I am only interested in creating feminized seeds from an already feminized plant, or multiple plants if necessary.
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  2. THContent

    THContent Banned

    Forget it, I found the answer.
  3. Rusty Trichome

    Rusty Trichome Registered+

    In case others are curious...

    Every genetic step you take without the male contribution, the further you get from 'stable' genetics. But yes, you can fem a femmed female in an emergency. I wouldn't trust the genetics if repeated past that, and would keep a close eye on the femmed fems through entire flowering process.

    How many times have the femmed seeds been femmed, before you get them? If from a seed breeding house, likely not an issue. If from backyard stock, (a backyard breeder with bagseed stock, selling 'em at a seed auction site as top dollar genetics) watch 'em closely.

    Personally, I think the seed breeders got it backwards. They should have offered femmed genetics at the regular price, and make the consumer pay extra for the privelage of buying the 'natural' seeds containing a 'normal' mix of M/F ratios.
  4. LetsSeeYa

    LetsSeeYa Registered+

    What would he do, just stress a plant into hermy and then pollenate with it.

    I always wanted femmed seeds till i read:wtf:

  5. THContent

    THContent Banned

    I am buying them from Attitude, G13 Haze.. As you may know, they no longer offer normal seeds, so no more male/female natural mixes on this strain. They are only femmed seeds now, I agree with you on the fact that femmed seeds should be cheaper, considering better genetics when breeding with natural sex rather than using femmed seeds as you stated. Since it is possible to breed fem seeds from a feminized plant I will give it a try, it will be well worth it if all goes well.

    Why don't they offer normal seeds, prolly for this very reason haha.
  6. WashougalWonder

    WashougalWonder Registered+

    Yes, pollen is valuable. Coming back to the first part of the quote.

    I have a plant that is a one of, it is a product of stressed females to a different female that had more desirable phenotypical traits I want.
    So this mother, if continued to be kept alive via cloning, and then using a stressed clone, the genetic offspring will thus be consistent, yet not causing the too much male influence you speak of? In other words, as long as the mothers clones get pollenated by a stressed clone and not breeding back again into the line, the line will be/becomes consistent?

    I hope that makes sense, very difficult question to phrase.
  7. Rusty Trichome

    Rusty Trichome Registered+

    Are you refering to back-crossing to stabilize a strain, from a previously femmed female? (re-femming...?)
    Are you are wanting to clone a femmed lady, and stress one of the offspring, and pollinate the mother plant with the femmed pollen? (basically the same thing, but different objectives)

    If that's the case, it might not be wise to take the resulting femmed seeds from the above actions, and fem those again. Not sure the technique of back-crossing to stabilize the strain would apply, since you would be inbreeding rather than cross breeding.

    <It's too damn early to think this hard, lol>

    A plant's "hermie tolerance" can be back-crossed into the strain, but it's tolerance can also be degraded, so start with quality genes. That way, if there is a "hermie-tolerance" shift, it's a a subtle change that likely wouldn't be noticed till way down the line. (possibly generations...possibly many generations...not at all sure)
    Every strain has the ability to be stressed into hermaphrodism. Some have a higher tolerance to stress than others, but some have weak genes to begin with, and re-femming might re-wire the stability of the strain. Doubtfully it would be in a positive direction. (Murphy's Law)

    I'm sure I'm overly cautious about this, but I've never pushed my genes that far. For me, there's no reason to, since I don't purchase femmed seeds, and I know the stability of the strains I play with before I fem 'em.

    Was this close to what you were asking...?
  8. THContent

    THContent Banned

    Basically I just want to create more femmed seeds from purchased femmed seeds from a seedbank.

    They only offer fem seeds for this strain, so that is where I am right now. I do not want to keep purchasing them when I could just make my own (of course with care and careful planning.) I know it may be tricky since the seeds purchased will be feminized. So I would have to use 2 seeds to grow 2 plants, force one to herm and grow pollen sacks, then pollenate the non stressed female plant. Would that work? It will be the same genetics.
  9. Rusty Trichome

    Rusty Trichome Registered+

    I'd never recommend getting into the habit of femming a fem. In a pinch, I'd give it a go, but I'd also think twice about purchasing expensive femmed seeds in the first place. I think the next time, since I'd have to employ femming techniques anyways, I'd chose stock from a seed bank that offers quality 'un-femmed' genetics, and fem 'em myself. Otherwise, you limit your options. My problem is, I'd run-out of the femmed seeds in no time, then what...fem a femmed fem?

    You could also pollinate a plant from a femmed seed with pollen from a different strain, but that defeats the reason you purchased the good genetics in the first place. :(

    Possible, yes.
    Likely they'll be fine females...yes.
    Guranteed to be

    Genetics degrade if in-breeding is employed as a consistent breeding strategy.
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2010
  10. WashougalWonder

    WashougalWonder Registered+

    Sort of, I think so. My issue is that I created this one plant. It is a product of many different stable females that were pollenated by nanner technology, partly accident.

    I have one mother. No seeds. No way to replicate or preserve the strain unless I keep the mother alive and use her clones to acquire the stress victim for pollen for one of the unstressed clones.

    I do know that when crossed with the Jedi pollen it makes a hermophrodite. Still stressing one of the mother clones to get nanners. Damn stable strain by itself.

    I have a couple of these 'one-of' mothers. Essentially I want to be able to share them, and God's little package called a seed is the best way to do it!
  11. WashougalWonder

    WashougalWonder Registered+

    Essentially I would assume that the seed bank only has a mother, as in my instance. I am hoping the first inbreed is stable if I ever get there.....but beyond that, I agree that you are messing with unhinging the herme tendency, unless you cross to a different breed. Still good chance of herme, but no where near as unstable as redoing a femmed fem, as Rusty states.

    You start doing this and it takes a lot of time to follow to the end result.

    I crossed a Jedi herme with all of my stable genetics. First one that went to flower, showed herme in 14 days. Second too soon to tell, but it does not look like a young herme does. (And I cannot describe it, it just looks different in the early flowering stage.) The one that hermed, was on this one that is such a stable mother, so it doesn't take much to mess up the genetics I am learning very quickly.

    Must understand I am a 'backyard' gardener, uneducated in horticulture, know some science. So I am full of poo, take it or leave it, but I am having fun playing farmer....always wanted to be a
  12. Rusty Trichome

    Rusty Trichome Registered+

    Every step you now take, takes you one step closer to enlightenment.

    Perhaps if we were to step-back, take a look at the long-term goals, and make sure the strategy fits the goals...this might be a less painful journey.

    For the price of one femmed strain, you can get two quality batches of 'normal' seeds. I'd go for the high quality organic genetics (un-femmed) and do an initial seed run to get to know the strain, and to replenish my seed stock and preserve your genetics.
    This way, if the time comes that you want to fem 'em, you know the strain and you are likely to have more success and (should) retain strain stability. Plus, if something goes wrong, you have a back-up plan and the untainted seeds to start anew. Heck, you can get a sativa dom, and an indica dom...and spend the next fifty years perfecting femmed crosses if you so desire.

    Eases the mind when you don't have to worry about screwing-up a mega-dollar strain. Panic creates impatience. (or is it the other way around...?)

    But if your back is up against the wall, ya gotta do what ya gotta do. :thumbsup:

    Anyway...that's my story, and I'm sticking to it, lol.
  13. THContent

    THContent Banned

    Thanks guys for giving good insight, I will stick to good genetics for now, and just breed those, and later on when I have a stackload of cash, I will invest in buying the femmed seeds from barneys and attempt to make femmed seeds from femmed seeds haha... thanks again guys :D

    On second thought, Rusty, how do you feel about using a normal Big Bud normal female with good genetics, herm it save nanners and cross that with a femmed G13 Haze plant gown under optimal conditions, how do you think the outcome would be? I know there is only one way to tell, but at first glance.
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2010
  14. Rusty Trichome

    Rusty Trichome Registered+

    If it was as easy as that, we'd all be doing it. ;)

    If you can afford to purchase seeds, I don't at all see a problem with playing around. It's one hell of a learning experience, and makes a boring hobby more interesting. Keep yourself a 'progression' log, label all seeds and plants and selectively breed them how you'd like. Have a goal in mind, or it becomes a scattered experience with inconsistent progression. Might get lucky or good, and come up with the "eternal buzz" folks have been searching for since Ponce DeLeon found the Fountain of Youth. (that'd be cool, good looking and stoned forever...)

    When cross breeding, the trick is to keep track of the differing offspring, and selectively breed the positive traits you are looking for in the cross. Tiz a little harder than it sounds, and often the crosses don't add up to a worthwhile (better than the parents) combo. That's why some patients pay the big bucks instead of breeding local bagseed.

    My goals when breeding fresh seeds of incredibly expensive stock, (online seeds in general) is to breed as if purebred, and selectively breed to keep the strain within breed standards. (if necessary...most quality genetics have, at the most, two different expressions) My first seed run is always to breed organic untainted seeds and have them in-hand before I mess-around with crosses and femming. (always have a back-up plan)
  15. vertigo0007

    vertigo0007 Registered

    Reserva privada must have no clue what they are doing then.....

    I think professionnal breeders would beg to differ. Og kush #18 is exactly that. A clone only strain, femmed and liked so much they refemmed it again and germed 30 seeds from it and #18 was more sour, more blah blah blah. This had nothing to do with being in a pinch or any other nonsense. It was bread like that on purpose for a desired effect.

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