Crispy tips, yellow n brown spots on fan leaves

Discussion in 'Plant Problems' started by macnasty, Dec 18, 2010.

  1. macnasty

    macnasty Registered+

    First of all I'd like to send a general message out to those with plant problems: it helps absolutely no one when the title of your thread says something along the lines of: "help I've got issues!!! Please!!" A title like this is so vague and obvious that it helps nobody. Not the people looking for solutions to similar problems, not to those willing to help you, and ultimately not you either looking for a solution to your PARTICULAR problem.

    Moving on...

    I'm doing this on my phone so bear with me. I don't have pics but I do have a link that shows some excellent pics of exactly the same things I'm seeing on my ladies. So rather than taking some mediocre pics with my inferior camera pls imagine that these are my plants.

    What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...)novice

    Your Equipment:
    .1) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's)1000W HPS
    .2) Distance from tops? 12"-36"
    .3) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...)cooltube
    .4) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? 650 cfm
    .5) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan?Yes
    .6) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule?12/12

    Your medium:
    .7) Specific brand and type of soil, (coco, peat based soilless...) and anything you've added to it. (vermiculite, perlite, worm castings...)DWC using Advanced Nutrients 3 Part
    .8) Size of container.7 gallon tub filled with 5 gallon of solution
    .9) Did you use peat pucks (or similar) to root clones or germinate seedlings? no

    Your nutrients and water:
    10) Source of water? (tap, bottled or filtered) What's it's ph before adjusting?tap. 6.8
    11) Method of checking water ph. (ph pen, test strips, aquarium test kit...) ph pen
    12) Method of adjusting water ph. (phosphoric acid, white vinegar, hydrated lime, PH Up...) ph up/down
    13) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) AN 3 part @ 11 ml/gallon for each micro grow and bloom. Botanicare Sweet @ 12 ml/gallon beginning week 4. GH Koolbloom @ 1/4 tsp / gallon beginning week 5. Hygrozyme @ 7 ml/gallon.
    14) How often are you watering between feedings, and how much per watering?changing res every 2 weeks. Keeping EC at between 1.4-1.9 depending on stage of flower. Usually add 1 gallon of water 2-3 times in the 2 week period. Nutes maybe 1-2 times.
    15) Any additives or tea's? (Superthrive, CalMag, molasses, Mother's Earth...)no
    16) Are your ph levels stable, or do they fluctuate?they go up a few tenths every day. I keep em between 5.2-5.8
    17) What is your ingoing water's ph? ...your runoff ph? 5.2-5.8 after adjusting
    18) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you spray? no

    Your growroom:
    19) Indoors or outdoors?indoor
    20) What size of closet, room or hut?4'x6'x8'
    21) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off?I don't measure. Feels cool, below room temp or equal to. Humidity isn't measured either. It isn't high though.
    22) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom?no

    Your strain:
    23) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?)Serious Seeds Chronic and THC Seeds Burmese Kush
    24) From seeds or clones? Mother from seed, then cloned from her
    25) Is this an autoflower strain? as far as I know, nope

    well there you have it. Some other possibly useful info: the strain is supposed to finish in 56-63 days. The spots and crispiness affects the larger fan leaves most. It starts at the tip, then the serrated edges, and finally attacks the whole leaf indiscriminately. I begin to see it during week 5 of flower. But if u take a look at the link above you'll be able to see exactly what's up. Although that thread was hijacked I should point out that Jessie, the original poster of the thread, had very similar conditions. Thanks in advance.
  2. Lynhal

    Lynhal Registered+

    I am sort of puzzled by your post with this link in it. The link pretty much explains the issues that could have arisen with your grow. Have you tried the suggestions from this post and found none to be of use in your particular situation? :confused:
  3. macnasty

    macnasty Registered+

    Thx lynhal,

    you're right the post is helpful, except that it got completely hijacked by someone who gre using soil and not hydro. The original poster had a hydro set up similar to mine and the pics used were perfect examples of what I see. But as Rusty Trichone pointed out in the thread, although the symptoms are similar the cause(s) will likely be different, and his repeated attempts to seek advice from hydro growers went unheard.

    I should mention that the tub I use is a sog setup measuring 12" x 24" and contains 8 sites.

    I still thought it would be useful to post my own thread and fill out a form so experienced growers might catch something I missed.

    My suspicions range from cal/mag deficiencies to under fert to over fert. I really don't know.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2010
  4. tikiroom

    tikiroom Registered+

    The only thing that jumped out at me from the form was your ph.
    5.2 is too low, I wouldn't go any lower than 5.4-5.5. This could possibly be locking out magnesium.
    And yes actual pics of your girls would help a ton in proper diagnosis, instead of just getting guesses.

    Keep in mind I am a newb myself, and just passing along info I have picked up along the way. :hippy:

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 1
  5. MadSativa

    MadSativa Registered+

    looks like nut lock to mee. could be fungus as well, another thing could be foiler spray burn. ph for hydro is supposed to be 5.8-6.3. any lower of higher and problems can come around. if spraying with neem or what ever, spray before the lights go out or when the lights are out, then shake the plants to get big drops off. for fungus a fungicide should be used how ever if in the roots it is usualy casused buy over watering, in this case letting the buckets dry out a bit and add some enzymes to the bucket. such as cannazym or hygrozym. botanicar also makes aproduct that can be good for roots called liquid karma, but its not the best for the price. canna then hyggrozym make the best. hygro also has a bottle for about 20 bucks now it is a limited 500ml bottle.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2010
  6. macnasty

    macnasty Registered+

    I do use hygrozyme @ 7 ml/gallon, but only during rez changes. I do not use it during top offs, and I only change my rez once every other week. I didn't think that root rot might be the issue, but if it means anything my roots are always white and never discoloured so I doubt that could be it. But maybe you're on to something as I don't change my rez every week and don't top off with any zyme.

    I'm a little confused about the ph here. Looking at the chart it looks like the ideal range is between 5.4-6.0, but definitely not higher than 6. At least according to that chart. And to be honest I'm usually at 5.7 and I check every day. But then it does seem that mg could be locked out if it really does kick in at 5.8 and above. Would buying calmag help? It's relatively cheap but maybe I just need to keep my ph levels a tad higher.

    About pictures: I don't have a good camera so it wouldn't help. If u just check that log I linked to in my first post you'll be able to see EXACTLY what's going on. I mean identical. So that should suffice.

    I'm leaning towards mg deficiency but really guessing here... :(
  7. gypski

    gypski Registered+

    This was posted originally by Blowsterke and should be made into a sticky. Use it before you go to fungus, etc.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 19, 2010
    • Like Like x 1
  8. WashougalWonder

    WashougalWonder Registered+

    Ya that is such a good chart, quick reference, don't have to go to the book.

    Would love to have one of those in poster size for grow area.
  9. Lynhal

    Lynhal Registered+

    Snags a copy of this extremely useful chart from gypski & Blowsterke:toilet_claw:

    Thanks! Definitely should be a stickie. :thumbsup:
  10. macnasty

    macnasty Registered+

    pictures! finally

    sorry about the delay, but hopefully someone can help me diagnose the problem for accurately now that i have a few pictures. this leaf was taken at the beginning of week 8. it begins with tiny brown spots all over the leaf, then spreads to the serrated edges, until you see the result shown in the pics

    Attached Files:

  11. gypski

    gypski Registered+

    put it on a disk, take it to a copy center and they can enlarge it to poster size. :thumbsup:
  12. MadSativa

    MadSativa Registered+

    thats a type of fungus, use a sulfer soap, and use alot, spray everyday for 2 or 3 days then wait 5 to 7 days and do again (follow the directions). preventative spraying with neem or sulfer burns or sulfer spray should be implemented.

    oh do you foiler spray? caseu the first pics looked like foil spray burn.
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2010
  13. WashougalWonder

    WashougalWonder Registered+

    Last edited: Dec 21, 2010
  14. macnasty

    macnasty Registered+

    Thanks for the advice MS. Even if my problem isn't rust fungus you've at least made me aware if the possibility. I've since read a ton of forums on the topic and after watching my plants very closely and monitoring all other issues carefully (ph, cal, mg, nutes) Im leaning towards the possibility that this may really be rust fungus. I have a few questions before I BOMB my plants with sulfer though...

    Why does this only seem to affect larger fan leaves?

    Why does it only occur in late flowering, never during veg and never in the first two weeks of flower?

    help! :(
  15. macnasty

    macnasty Registered+

    Oh and I know you didn't say to use this in conjunction MS, but for any of you having the same issue be very careful not to use neem oil and sulfer at roughly the same time. The two together are like mixing gasoline and fire. Just be careful.
  16. WashougalWonder

    WashougalWonder Registered+

    I was not going to say anything, but before you do the sulphur thing, try treating for a Ca/Mg deficiency.

    I believe if it were the fungus it would effect most leaves.
  17. polishpollack

    polishpollack Registered+

    With brown, dying tips, I'm thinking this is fert burn, especially since it's Advanced. Seems like people have difficulty using this brand. I think Jessie's problem was also too much fert, but I don't know what fert he was using. When I read the words "DWC with Advanced" in your post, I thought Well, that's probably the problem right there. I didn't see your use of a ppm meter, so if you're not using one it might be smart to do so and get your ppms down some and try to keep them there at least for a while and see what happens. Measure your current ppm and don't get close to it again.
    If you want to try a different fert, I'd suggest Dynagrow 7-9-5 at the grow shop or online. Just don't add it to Advanced, but make it a separate fresh fert and water mix. This is a one-part fert and has all the micro nutes plants need. Just doesn't have a very long shelf life. PPM around 600 for babies and raise it a little if they yellow. 1000-1200 or so for adult grow. Supernatural Aqua is good too. Just be careful cuz crystal ferts are stronger than liquids.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2010
  18. macnasty

    macnasty Registered+

    Thx polish but I do use a ppm meter. Aka EC meter. My ec is at about 1.7-2.0 when the plants are fully matured, from about 4th week of flower onwards. My guy at the hydro store suggests these figures. I suppose I could lower the nute levels.....still sorta in the dark here. On my newest babies I bought some calmag+ and I've been changing the Rez every 10 days and closely monitoring ph and just a few days ago I noticed early signs of this same problem. It begins with very small brown dots speckled all over the fan leaf, and a burnt tip. Soon it will probably spread. I'll take pics tonight to show u what it looks like in the early stages.
  19. polishpollack

    polishpollack Registered+

    That sure sounds like fert burn. I'm not familiar with EC numbers. Just ppm. Doesn't matter though, I guess. In my experience, browning of the tips usually indicates fert burn. Best of luck to you.
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2010

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