Dogs & Cancer

Discussion in 'Medicinal Cannabis and Health' started by hottrageous, Jul 31, 2013.

  1. JJM1378

    JJM1378 Registered+

    Hi Weez,
    Not sure if you remember me but you helped me out tremendously. My little guy had surgery to remove the tumor 6 months ago....right after he was diagnosed. The vet said without Chemo and radiation, the TCC Tumor would come back rapdily & the dog would not survive past 6 months. Well, I never got him chemo or radiation, just kept dosing(and giving him the piroxicam that the vet recommended) & sure enough he's still kicking seven months later. went for a follow up and xray showed his abdomen was still clear and hes running around with more energy than before. Hopefully he still has a few years left in him, Just wanted to say thanks again

    P.S. He's still on a rice size dose 2x a day. Should i scale back to a maintenance dose & if so, how much should that be on an 18lb boston terrier/yorky??

     
    Last edited: May 15, 2017
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  2. Gary Trentham

    Gary Trentham Registered

    Update: Lilah had her 3 month check-up MRI. Cyst is still there, but it has not gotten any bigger. Good news is since she now has a mesh plate in her head, the cyst can grow out that direction instead of down, putting pressure on the plate instead of her brain. Still have her on oil, but now just 2 times a day instead of 3. She is more clingy now than before, but still pretty much back to her old self.
     
  3. Weezard

    Weezard Registered+

    Good news all around! :)
    My pups mammary tumors are gone!
    She had 4, large, fast growing, fugly tumors.
    I was having vision problems at the time and didn't see them until they were well established.
    I felt them when I had to pick her up to move her after she collapsed.
    She had lost 20 pounds.
    She was very ill and had lost interest in everything.

    Mammary cancer.jpg
    They went into remission rapidly on a small oil dosage. (~ 50 mg. RSO, 2x per day)
    Could almost watch them shrink.
    (According to the wife)
    Gained back the lost weight, and the sparkle in her eyes
    Now, we're back to long, happy walks with my perky 11 year old pup.

    She still has some soft tumors in her armpits, but they have stopped growing and do not seem to bother her.
    Looks like shes got some good years left.


    Yes, scale it back.
    I'd just "print" a dot on a treat for that small a dog.
    1/4 to 1/8th of a rice grain. Just a tiny, (2 - 3 mm.) dot

    Aloha,
    Weeze
     
  4. BonsaiDude

    BonsaiDude Registered

    Weez thanks for helping countless dog owners. You are a karmic warrior! I am so grateful that I found this thread!

    Four days ago my 13 year old, 23 pound Boston Terrier, Captain Pickles, began dramatically vomiting food, water and mucus. He had no interest in food and didn't have any enthusiasm to go on a walk. The Captain was diagnosed with TCC and the vet gave him 2 months to live and a bottle of Tramadol. He has a tennis ball sized tumor on his bladder. The good news is, is that it has not metastasized to his lungs or other vital organs yet. His blood work came back and he has slight anemia and the vet is worried that his calcium level could become low. Surgery is not an option and we have decided against radiation and chemo.

    Captain Pickles was a rescue who rescued me. He is the first dog I've ever owned and has been with me through college, multiple moves across the country and was my wingman that brought my wife and I together when we met - The Captain sealed the deal!

    We missed catching his TCC because his symptoms of multiple, low yield urinations previously had been treated as a bladder infection as he wasn't painfully straining to urinate. We have been giving him topical CBD for a year, to help him recover from trips to the dog park and long walks. This could have worked against us catching a more serious condition because maybe the CBD masked any pain that would have let us know The Captain was suffering from TCC when he was urinating. We also thought we were caring for him the best we could, by making him homemade organic dog food and giving him fish and coconut oil daily to keep him healthy. He loves to eat grass and what we didn't count on was the real and present danger of living in an urban area that has a lot of landscaping and grass sprayed with glyphosates like Roundup.

    I live in a non-medical State, but will be sourcing some RSO made from the Cannatonic strain. I am seeking your advice on if this strain will have enough THC in it to actively fight his tumor? It was the only strain of RSO I could source in a timely manner. In your experience with RSO, how important is the strain in the effectiveness of its cancer fighting properties? And how helpful has RSO been with helping dogs with TCC?

    In the meantime after reading this thread till I obtain the Cannatonic strain RSO. I have been giving The Captain pinhead sized amounts of some CO2 hybrid dab wax that I had lying around to relieve him of pain every 8-10 hours. It has drastically helped him with pain, much better than the only pill of Tramadol we gave him. His quality of life is much better being treated with dab wax than it was being on Tramadol. His appetite varies from challenged to near normal but at least he can hold small amounts of organic beef liver down. He follows me around the house, jumps on the couch and is able to rest easy and without pain. If his new reality was going to be a painful, Tramadol side effected stupor, I was gonna put him down and let him run in the dog park in the sky. But The Captain's reaction to the dab wax has given me hope that RSO treatments will offer him a better quality of life going forward.
     
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  5. Weezard

    Weezard Registered+


    Mahalo for the kind words.

    Cannatonic is a good choice for cancer treatment and pain relief.
    The CO2 wax dabs are only good for pain.
    Solvent derived RSO contains enzymes that Butane, and CO2 extractions leave behind.

    I find that strain is less important than proper dosage.
    "More than enough is too much."

    So start with a very small amount of RSO.
    ~ Roughly 2 mg. per Kg.
    The Captain weigh about one kilo. So 2 or 3 mg. would be a good start.
    If you see obvious signs of intoxication, or anorexia, cut it back.
    With the low THC content of Cannatonic you may have to increase dosage a bit.
    But again, if The Captain looks ripped, cut it back. They don't have to get high to have remission.

    As to your second question, I have no information for TCC & RSO.
    Making your documentation important, yah?

    Tramadol is an effective analgesic for dogs but some dogs are more sensitive to it and require a lower dose. Same goes for any medication.
    Boston terriers have a speedy metabolism and usually get by on less.

    I wish Cap'n Pickles a speedy remission and you the best of luck.

    Aloha,
    Weeze
     
  6. MJ Wilson

    MJ Wilson Registered+

     
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  7. MJ Wilson

    MJ Wilson Registered+

    I don't understand what is going on, I cannot post a message to you Weezard?
    Huh? I have tried numerous times and cannot get "start a new conversation" or even "reply" to give me anything other than a topic line?
    Crap, I wanted to bounce something off you, for your thoughts.
     
  8. Weezard

    Weezard Registered+

    Board is screwed up.

    Started a new "conversation".
    If you can't post there. Come and PM me on icmag.
    It works.
    And while this part seems to be functional I'll say that, once again, more than enough, is too much.
    I had slowed growth on high dosage, (750 - 1000 mg. per day).
    But when I dropped the dosage to the sweet spot on the bell curve, ~ 70 - 100 mg.), my PSA reading dropped by 25%!
    That's the first reversal in 10 years.
    Overdosage is counterproductive.

    Aloha,
    Wee
     
  9. MJ Wilson

    MJ Wilson Registered+

    I went on ICmag, I have to wait 24 hrs. before I can message you :), Thank you for your input, there is more so I will try catching you on IC tomorrow once my account is up and running with them. :)
     
  10. Banditsmom

    Banditsmom Registered

     
  11. Banditsmom

    Banditsmom Registered

    I am trying to post a ?? and it won't let me. I have a 35 lb husky/Shepard mix. He was diagnosed with a brain tumor today. I have RSO but unsure of dosing. Would you please help me???
     
  12. Banditsmom

    Banditsmom Registered

  13. Weezard

    Weezard Registered+

    I believe that the information you need is in this thread.

    For a 35 pound pup, one fourth of a grain of rice would be a good place to start.

    10 mg. of strong RSO is an effective dose for a 140# person so 2.5mg. would be the same mg. per kg. with a 35 pound dog.
    But dogs have a faster metabolism and can't tell us what they are experiencing, so I'd cut that to 1.25 mg.

    How to titrate?
    Use the butter dilution .1 gram of oil in 1/4 lb. (~112 grams) of butter.
    Each gram of that butter will then contain ~10 mg. of the oil. Cut that gram in 1/8ths and you will have 1.25 mg. per dose.
    Use a half pound butter and cut the gram in quarters if that's easier for you.
    Or a pound of butter, 1 gram of oil and cut the grams in half.
    If there is no visible effect, increase the dosage until the dog notices. Then back off a smidge.

    I use a small smear directly from the syringe in a #3 gelatin capsule for my 80 pound wee beastie. Because I'm lazy.
    But I used the butter trick to find that dosage.

    Aloha, and best of luck with this.

    Weeze
     
  14. TaylorJ

    TaylorJ Registered

     
  15. TaylorJ

    TaylorJ Registered

  16. TaylorJ

    TaylorJ Registered

    Weezard,
    I have read this thread and other threads here on this very informative site. First, I want to thank you for staying with this thread and trying to help all of us out here dealing with this heart breaking disease in our pets and loved ones. I wish you the best with your fight too.

    Recently, my 12.5lb Jack Russell Terrier, 17 years young, was diagnosed with a mast cell tumor on his back left hip. It came on pretty quick and even caused some swelling on the leg. My local vet referred me to a specialist in a bigger city a few hours away. The surgeon there said that it was too large to operate on without amputation and the oncologist suggested trying to use chemo in an attempt to shrink the tumor enough for surgery. I am reluctant to try this because he seems to be getting along fine now and I hate the thought of spending his last days going through the merry go round of chemo, surgery and other meds at his age, not to mention the $6,000 predicted cost.

    I know he has lived a long life already but what kills me is that he has been doing so well this year. We do a daily half mile walk, he has good appetite and seems to look forward to our daily routine-he gets to go to work with me and we spend all day together.
    I have started him on a benadryl, tagamet and low dose pred protocol and that has taken away all of the swelling on the leg and maybe the tumor has shrunk 10%. It is quite large for his body, 7cm by 4cm and sticks out maybe 2cm. It is not directly in the skin but just under the skin. There is some redness on the skin above where the tumor is located.

    I have changed his diet to one without carbs, added tumeric, K-9 immunity and some other vitamins for him to strengthen his body's ability to fight. Although he is old, he seems like he has some more fight in him. I just recently ordered some RSO for him, the company says the oil is from Sour OG, a 50/50 hybrid with a profile of (50.65% THC+THCa and 0.22% CBD+CBDa with total CBN at 3.67%). I also ordered 2 tinctures from Yummi Karma with a 4:1 CBD to THC ratio and their 20:1 CBD to THC in case I need to up the CBD to offset the high from the THC of the RSO.
    Do you think what I have will work on Mast Cell Tumors? Should I give orally and topically with a carrier like DSMO even though the tumor is below the skin?
    My goal with this is to slow down this awful thing and extend what good quality time we can share together. I am not expecting a miracle of complete remission but if we can keep this thing in check then I believe that he can live with it for more good time.
    In your experience, does RSO work on mast cell tumors? Are my expectations feasible in that I am just trying to stop this thing from growing and get some reduction in size? Also, would you use just the straight RSO with low CBD or add some CBD from the tinctures to have a more even balance of things? I appreciate in advance any and all information and opinions you would care to share.
    Thank you
     
  17. Weezard

    Weezard Registered+


    Good call on the surgery.
    Mast cell tumors metastasis is often triggered by surgery, so amputation is safer.
    Sounds like you have a good vet.
    The mast cells evolved to fight parasitic invasion. Nowadays they are very underemployed, that's what makes them react to injury.
    I have not personally seen remission with MCC but I have seen slowing and shrinkage.
    If nothing else, the THC and predisone should prevent mets.

    There has recently been some research on CBD that shows it has little effect on "high" modification, so don't expect much of that.

    With proper dosage, too high will not be a problem.
    It is, however a good idea to add some because it limits and repairs nerve damage.


    yes, but lower the oral dose when you use topical application.
    I'd apply the topical first to gauge how much effect it has.

    You will have some trouble mixing the oil with the DMSO. I warm it to ~ 160┬░ F. and use an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner to form an emulsion.
    The DMSO takes it right through the skin but you need to use a "no lick" collar on the dog.

    It does mix well with coconut butter and then serves as oral and topical.
    Most dogs will lick it off.

    You have the right approach.
    With old dogs , slowing the progression is sufficient. :)

    Aloha,
    Weeze
     
  18. Evi Vine

    Evi Vine Registered

    Dear Weeze,

    I am writing to you from the uk ... I am a musician and our little furry girl who is now sick ... is the coolest thing about our band ... and she is my favourite thing in the whole world ... I know you are overloaded with people contacting you with the same questions over and over again ... but my brain is at capacity and math - percentages - balancing dosages is out of my remit at the moment - I have however been a palliative care nurse and have found myself needing these skills suddenly for our beautiful soulful girl Lumi around 6 1/2 ( She is a rescue a brave girl who survived terrible violent start - her name means light ) possible husky /shepherd diagnosed 2 weeks ago with a disgusting Lymphoma wrapped around her intestines .. our vets failed us terribly treating her for suspected food poisoning for 3 months ... and she nearly died suddenly ... her decline was so fast but she was referred to the leading cancer unit for animals in the world (Fitzpatricks - for anyone else in the uk that might need help) however their protocol is best interest of your companion friend first and a careful plan of chemo steroids anti nausea pills - all toxic ... but Lumi's cancer is inoperable and in a panic we said yes to treatment ... they have given us 3 months from 2 weeks ago ... I was very inspired by your posts particularly - you are helping so many people I was so interested in the 'Bell Curve' ... we are unable to make oil at home and we are looking on line for reputable source ... I obviously want her to have the best organic highest quality as possible ... I also wondered if you know anything about Avemar fermented wheat germ - Life Gold - shark cartilage - reading about Dr Doug Kramer - I am suspicious of many of the oils and traceability of the plants - she vastly improved even the first few hours with specialist care and has been home with us since ... we are feeding organic grass fed meats and a little organic liver as she is anemic - white blood cell count is low ... we need to support her better and naturally ... she has a holistic vet now and I am giving her Kefir raw honey supergreens probiotics slippery elm to help her tummy ... we did find an oil in the Neatherlands but it seems very low in cbd olie premium.jpg
    Extra information CBD Oil Premium
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    Attached Files:

  19. Weezard

    Weezard Registered+

    Dear Evi,

    Just looked at that CBD oil.
    If your pup had tremors or seizures, it would be a reasonable choice, at an unreasonable price.
    I would not trust it to be effective for lymphoma.

    Good news.
    You don't really need to make your own oil.
    If you can access buds, A quick saute┬┤ in butter will turn them into tasty treats and decarb them as well.
    Chock full of THC, if it's good bud.
    Start with a tiny "popcorn" bud, and increase the size until you note an effect.
    Lumi will show you when it's right.
    If she loses her appetite give her a little less.

    Funny story, we have a Jack Russel cross named Luci Light.
    She once got in way over her head.
    I had tossed what I thought were spent buds that I had used to make budder for cookies.
    Well they were still coated with butter and Luci found them in the compost bin.
    That poor thing just melted.
    She was a "dog-skin" rug for 2 days, and boneless chicken for a third day.
    The good news is, she made the connection, so we can leave food out now with no worry.
    She won't eat anything until she gets verbal assurance that it "OK". :)
    Just a cautionary tale about the dangers of overdosing.

    Even better news.
    Some Lymphomas do respond well to Cannabis oil.

    Best of luck with Lumi.
    Aloha,
    Weeze
     
  20. Khandy

    Khandy Registered+

    Dear Weeze and all fellow readers,

    Greetings. I hope you and yours are all doing well and continuing onward with good results. I have read so many stories on this board that made me cheer and gave me hope but I am writing today with a heavy heart and a lot of questions. I received a phone call from my vet last Friday and I found out that the mass removed from my dogs neck was in fact a lymph node that has metastasized. This is going to be a rather long post so that I may include all the relevant information I have to date. I apologize for it's length. I may jump around, as I am still totally devastated and keeping my thoughts linear is difficult. I have read this board through several times along with just about any other information I can find on the web for the last 4 days.

    4 weeks ago, I took Myah, my 9.5 year old, 62 lb yellow lab, to the vet as she was and hadn't been acting herself for a week prior to that. Once at the vet I felt a large mass under her neck. It had not been there the day before that. My vet was shocked as I do a routine vet check monthly with both my dogs. She gets a bi-monthly blood work up ever since she hit 8 years old. My other dog is a 10 month old husky pup, River, and just get a well checkup on these visits. There had been nothing to indicate any illness. In fact all blood work was still normal yesterday when I went in to get all of the information in person and recommendations from my vet. During the 2 week period before 7.20, which was when the removal of the lymph gland was done, (small town and everything had to be sent off out of town for analysis) Myah had 2 surgeries to drain the mass in her neck on 7.3 and 7.13. On the 20th is was decided that the underlying harder mass had to be removed. It was sitting on her vocal cord and the surgery was iffy at best. They got her through that, so I try and be thankful that everyday is one I wouldn't have had, but it's hard. I can post a copy of the report if you are interested in reading but the bottom line was; Diagnosis:Lymph node metastasis of squamous cell carcinoma. My vet gave me information that states it is the rarest of cancers, with the fastest mortality.

    They are still unsure where the originating tumor is. I have been lead to believe this is fairly normal with this type of cancer. I have been given a couple options. They can do a scope of her nasal passages, Xray her head and abdomen and do an untrasound. My vet has told me she nor anyone in town would be able to remove or otherwise do any procedures with whatever might be found. I would have to take her out of town. She is happy to do it but only as a diagnostic. She felt that the xray and scope would be helpful in narrowing down a time frame, so I know how the cancer will progress. That is, if they can find the originating tumor. She has suggested a MRI and perhaps radiation as an option. She said chemo is this type of cancer was next to worthless. I have a call in to UC Davis to see about a consultation. She also referred me to a holistic vet. They have faxed some papers about cannabis and dogs. I had spoke with my vet yesterday about RSO oil. I did not know that a vet will lose their license if they in any way proscribe cannabis, at least in Oregon where I live. This brings me to today info and questions for you weezer and anyone that has insights into my quest to extend my girl's life a few extra months. (There is no vet clinic in this town that has a MRI machine, nor the advanced knowledge to work with cancers).

    Vet told me yesterday, 2-6 months is all she has. It could be longer because they all know Myah so well and she is totally healthy other than this horrible disease that crept so quietly into our lives. It could be shorter. The vet and all the techs were in tears, they love her so much and know her so well that, and as the vet told me yesterday, this is like losing one of their own personal dogs and they asked if they could each have some time with her to take her for a swim or a drive. The particulars: she has gained 2.5 pounds since the removal of gland. Vet said when she starts to lose her appetite, it will be fast for her with this type of cancer. So I am happy to report it is great still. She has more energy than she has had in over 2 months. She plays a but of tug of war with the pup and if you wouldn't think she was sick. The nly thing she does is tire easily. I know that she will act well, until she can't any longer.

    On Saturday I drove 150 miles to get her the different oils. RSO and CDB. The RSO oil is right at 90 percent THC. After reading and reading this thread, I still don't know what amount to give her. It has changed so many times throughout it's morphing from information given and shared. I "think" that at her 62 lbs, I would give her approx. 35ML - or a 1/4 of a grain of rice, 2x a day. I now have more knowledge about cannabis than I ever thought I would at this old age of mine but I still don't know what a pin head size is , a dab, or what is the actual amount I should start with and what to raise it to, how fast, and what to bring it back to and how fast. Or if it is just a standard amount not raised or lowered. There is so much worthwhile information in this thread, my brain just isn't processing it correctly. Could you pleas explain in "pot dummy" terms? Which brings me to my next big question. Is this even feasible to use with her? I would give anything to lengthen the time I have with her even by a few months. I know in her case there wont be any cure or remission. But does RSO oil stand a chance to increase her life expectancy with the type and advancement of her cancer? I know you aren't a vet... just asking for your best guess.

    She is only on a 2 mg dose of meloxicam. ( She was given this to reduce swelling from the surgeries and vet said I could either continue on with it, or she could order in peroxicam or we could use nothing until it was pain management time if I was going to go that far) I will nto let my girl suffer. She also said to just go have fun with her, enjoy the time we have. I had been planning to drive 3k mile round trip to go get a new puppy leaving this next Sunday. She said to go take the trip and do our "grand adventure" together. I am also questioning if the stress of the trip will shorten her life. She loves to ride, but that is alot of car time. Thoughts?

    I am also trying to not feel guilty and not do chemo. I would do anything I could to have more time with my girl, but I also in my head do not believe this would be the right option, my heart says try it, you might get an extra month or two. I will wait and see what UC Davis has to offer, if there is an experimental trial or drug to try. But I really hope you and others think it would be helpful to try the RSO oil. And still have a dog that isn't zonked out until she passes away.

    Thank you for taking the time to read this.
    Love and good vibes to you.
    Kandy, Myah and River
     

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