Discussion in 'Indoor Growing' started by kuri, Mar 25, 2005.

  1. kuri

    kuri Registered+

    hi there, i've recently heard of two things you can use when you flush your plants that help get the salts out and get the stored nutes in the plant out better than just ph adjusted water.....

    so WHAT IS IN final phase OR clearex that makes this happen? is there an ingredient in these things that you could add to the water without buying the product? i really can't buy these products at this time due to budgets for myself and if there was an active ingredient in those products that you could replace with something you could get at a store easily.

    just like vinegar brings ph down and baking soda (soda?) brings ph up. something like that but for a replacement of what final phase and clearex does. thanks for anyones brain cells and knoweledge.
  2. kuri

    kuri Registered+

    i hope my question was clear, i know i tend to ramble
  3. Sativus

    Sativus Registered+

    at the university, water is known as a "universal solvent", meaning that given enough time, water will break down anything to its purest form. using chemicals to remove chemicals, i would think you still end up flushing with water, and if givin enough time, water would have done the job in the first place.
  4. kuri

    kuri Registered+

    i agree with what you are saying... i've posted with others in other posts that use the clearex and final phase and asked what is in it, one response i got was some natural this and natural that. didn't really tell me.

    others that i have asked say they liked flushing with water and it was good but when they tried clearex or final phase, then they could really tell the difference in taste.

    i plant to use only water this time as i don't want to keep spending for other stuff. just was wondering if there was anything NON chemical that could be added to help the flush.

    but yes i agree with you water is the universal weak/strong. it can be as soft and still as a mirror or become a tsunami as we all know.
  5. Sativus

    Sativus Registered+

    then if clearX has natural ingrediants, but they cant say what they are, i would think twice. the taste difference could be another factor, like a chemical residue that people "thinks" tastes better. like making cherry soda chemicaly, people "think" its cherry, but its really a chem factory. ive heard of people flushing their plants and adding vanilla extract to the final flush to get the flavor in the plant. so if you add a chemical, the plant will suck it up. clean water moving through a plant will clean it, but you must give it time.
  6. phillykid420

    phillykid420 Registered+

    I'd say water is fine and lots of people have used it for many many many years with no problems. IMHO clearex and those things are money makers and that's about it. Besides, don't you do hydro, Kuri? They might put things in it that can unbind particles to soil so it might be useful in that case, but if you fertilize correctly, slowly increase the level as the plants get big then towards the last couple weeks start tapering down then just use plain water you should be fine.

    Yes waters a very good solvent, but universal? If it were universal, what would you use for a container? Also water can't solubilize lipids or other nonpolar molecules.
  7. kuri

    kuri Registered+

    LOL whoa phillykid LOL you are getting scientific on me! i was talking/thinking metaphorically/philosophically LOL. but thanks for that, i need to learn all that biological terms that i skated through in high school and college. i guess i wait to learn stuff until that TIME i need to know it. i tell you, if you add APPLICATION to all school classes, our kids will have a better school system. whoa, sounds like i just changed the subject. i better quite. LOL
  8. Sativus

    Sativus Registered+

    Yes waters a very good solvent, but universal? If it were universal, what would you use for a container? Also water can't solubilize lipids or other nonpolar molecules.

    yes, universal all the way. the key word here is "time", which if givin, water will break most things to it's purest state, breaking down molecular bonds, not the molecule it'self. a lipid is in it's purest state. as far as containment, im sure the egg heads at the campus would have a field day with this, but this isnt something i made up. dont underestimate the power of water.
  9. phillykid420

    phillykid420 Registered+

    Sorry bout that Kuri lol.

    I still stand by what I said above, universal means ALL, not most, just a difference in semantics. It's a very good solvent, probably the best in existence but that doesn't make it universal. It does not mix at all with nonpolar organics, in solution it separates to 2 phases with no mixing like with phenol extractions. It will not solubilize something nonpolar like lard, otherwise our cells would be dissolved in it. It will not dissolve most metals or plastics. It can eat away at metals but rust is oxidation not solubilized metal.

    I don't underestimate the power of water, I know that it is the reason we have life on earth both due to the decrease in density upon freezing as well as it's unique molecular structure that gives it a high specific heat and it's ability to solubilize many things. But many doesn't equal universal IMO.

    Science is strange, many times they'll find something wrong but it's been said so often that it stands. Ever see circuit diagrams in physics textbooks? They're all wrong, they're all based on the old "positron" thinking when the old science heads thought positrons moved not electrons. And for some stupid reason nobody ever thought to just change it. So if you look in a text book you'll see charge moving from positive terminal toward the negative, when in reality it's the opposite way. ...Go figure?

  10. kuri

    kuri Registered+

    philly, thanks for the link and education...honestly. i love how the UNIVERSE works. i state something kind of philosophically half assed and and use the word universal and then i get a good education in science. seriously, i appreciate it. i like to learn new things especially AFTER i'm out of school. i understood all that you said for the most part and will soak that in. thanks again
  11. Sativus

    Sativus Registered+


    Universal means more than "ALL". dont pick out parts of a definition to suit your own needs. Rogets II thesaurus(all i have here) Universal-So pervasive and all-inclusive as to exist in or effect the whole world. looking at that, i have to say water as a solvent lives up to that definition. Your thinking in the lines that if water is a "universal" solvent, then the universe should be disolved and all of us non-polar lipidized weed growin people shouldnt even be here. no way. a semantical play on words as between "most" or "all" in the universal sense is irrelevent. the world is your chemistry set but dont limit your spectrum of view like the hps bulb hangin in your closet and miss out on the cool chemicals in the back. type those two words in your search bar and see what you get. and thats whats in klereX kuri, chemicals.
  12. kuri

    kuri Registered+

    got it. domo arigato gozaimashita sensei Sativus-san.
  13. phillykid420

    phillykid420 Registered+

    "Your thinking in the lines that if water is a "universal" solvent, then the universe should be disolved and all of us non-polar lipidized weed growin people shouldnt even be here. no way."

    no I didn't mean that.

    "Main Entry: 1uni·ver·sal
    Pronunciation: "yü-n&-'v&r-s&l
    Function: adjective
    Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Latin universalis, from universum universe
    1 : including or covering all or a whole collectively or distributively without limit or exception
    2 a : present or occurring everywhere b : existent or operative everywhere or under all conditions <universal cultural patterns>
    3 a : embracing a major part or the greatest portion (as of mankind) <a universal state> <universal practices> b : comprehensively broad and versatile <a universal genius>
    4 a : affirming or denying something of all members of a class or of all values of a variable b : denoting every member of a class <a universal term>
    5 : adapted or adjustable to meet varied requirements (as of use, shape, or size) <a universal gear cutter>"

    I'm using definition 1 of the word, you are using definition 3. That's why I said it's semantics, we both know water doesn't dissolve everything, so we both understand but we're using definitions and wording a bit differently thus it is a difference in semantics.

    I'm not arguing this point any more. I've had some coworkers say it is, and others say it isn't. And most of my coworkers have PhD's in a science field since I work in a neurovirology and cancer biology lab (mostly doing cellular and molecular biology, not clinical). In science I prefer the most precise definition possible, one that doesn't bring ambiguity due to multiple meanings. So I would say water is the best solvent and can solubilize many things, but I wouldn't use universal becuase it can be easily misunderstood if you read the definitions listed above.

    I'll bet your head is spinnin now Kuri lol. Don't pay any of that any mind, you'd be better served in reading up on the biology of plants. When I started growing I think it was the first time I put my ole biology textbook from college to some good use lol. There's some interesting stuff there and it'll help you sort through all the old wives tales. (like the one about pouring OJ into the soil to make it taste like oranges lol)

    Plant photoperiod is also interesting, do a search on florigen. Cannabis is a short day plant so the stuff pertaining to short day plants should apply.

  14. Zandor

    Zandor Registered+

    Kuri no disrespect man....
    phillykid420 that was some funny shit, I laughed my ass off. I forgot about that OJ funny.

    Well said.....Peace all
  15. Sativus

    Sativus Registered+

    your right

    your right, its not that big of a deal. universal is a word that can be blown out of porportion if you wanted. the whole thing came up over the ingrediants in kleareX, which I personaly think chemicals are in it. but if you want to use it, theres nothng wrong with that one bit. maybe it does make plants flush out better or faster, but plain water will too if given time to do its job. so i apologize if any posts were taken in the wrong context around the time my offspring got involved in some circumstances and put me in a mean mood. but thats another story, so besides the fact that chemicals are in kleareX, i still dont know if the ingrediants are natural or otherwise. Maybe the answer is to ask kleareX themselves. :)
  16. KanMan

    KanMan Registered+

    Plain water will not remove all the nutrients built up. Clearing agents will remove more nutrient build up then just plain water. I am not saying plain water does not work, just that it will not work as well as a nutrient clearing agent.

    Good Kannabis Growing!
  17. Sativus

    Sativus Registered+

    the thing that i thought about was the fact of using one chemical to clean another and the residue it might leave behind, if any at all. if that stuff works then all the better. i think kuri was trying to find out if it had natural ingrediants so he could make his own version, and that sort of interested me as well. thats when the whole idea of plain water entered my mind. and im sure that stuff costs a few bucks for a bottle.
  18. kuri

    kuri Registered+

    yup sativus, that is exactly what i was thinking

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