HELP!! Dying, Curling Leaves. Help me save them!!!

Discussion in 'Plant Problems' started by NewGrowMan, Jul 4, 2007.

  1. NewGrowMan

    NewGrowMan Registered

    Hi there everyone. Im a new user here, and Ive been having a very rough time with these plants. They were started outside, and have been doing quite fine for the first month or so of their lives. Now however there is something seriously wrong that seems to be hitting one plant after another.

    It mainly seems to be affecting the top growth. The top set of large leaves beings to curl upward and downward at the same time, with the tips curling the most, in some cases curling in several loops back towards the plant. Then the leaves will start to turn yellow, to gray, to brown, then they die. The new shoots of growth also have their tips seemingly dead.brown or at least very yellow.

    I have been checking the PH with a liquid kit and it appears to be steadily between 6-6.7 (A new test just done of the freshly watered soil reads 6.4). With my PH test kit also came test for N-P-K (liquid, same method as PH test) and the NPK tests lead me to believe I am N and P deficient but seem to be overdosing the plant in K (which doesnt make sense as Ive been using 18-20-20 plant food at 1/2 strength about once a week) I started out using Miracle Grow potting soil in peat pots, but have now transplanted them to 6inch pots with 50% Sta-Green Potting Soil w/ Slow Release Chleated Nitrogen. I have been watering with Filtered water only, yet the plants dont show much signs of improvement. Actually the opposite.

    It may hep to point out that, except for the past 6 days, the past 2 weeks or so it has been extremely hot outside. Temps in the 90's with EXTREMELY high Humidity. Many of the Plants that had problems appeared to be holding water in their peat pots longer than the ones that seems healthy. Could this be due to the high humidity? Did I drown them?

    Anyway here are some pics:
    Pic#1: A view of the leaves curling up and down at the same time.
    Pic#2: Lower leaves on the most dead plant. Seems to spread to lower leaves after 1 week or so.
    Pic#3: Good view of dying tips new growth
    Pic#4: My dominantly-Indica baby showing dead new growth/curling top leaves
    Pic#5: A Perfect example of how the leaves looked the first day there were problems. (Note they dont look like this anymore)


    Any ideas or info is greatly appreciated. Should I flush them? Are they deficient or is it overfert? Im completely stumped.

    Thanks for the help

    Attached Files:

  2. NewGrowMan

    NewGrowMan Registered

    Here are some more pics. I could only upload 5 in the first post.

    Hope these help.

    BTW the 2 plants that look like death, only seem to be affected in the leaves. The stem of the plant is very strong, and the leaves emerging from the nodes do not seem to be affected.

    Pic#6: Better view of the browning turning white/dead
    Pic#7: Tips of one of the healthier plants dying
    Pic#8 & 9: One of the ones that I dont think can be saved. (What is happening here?!)
    Pic#10: This one is very healthy looking, except for the strange white spots. I thought it might be salt buildup, but it doesnt wipe off.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 4, 2007
  3. Weedhound

    Weedhound Registered+

    I wonder if the "slow release" nitrogen is killing off your plants. I would figure it has to be one of three things.

    1. Wrong soil
    2. Overwater
    3. Too much heat

    I pick the first one based on the info you've given here.....for one thing you say it's happening to your plants over and over so it's something you are continually doing. I think that lets out the heat (JUST GUESSING) and it just plain looks like overnute burn to me.

    The only way I know how to fix something like that (without being able to pinpoint the exact problem) is to change things one by one and see how your plants react. I'd start with the easiest thing first.....change watering schedule perhaps? Or move from the sun and heat into the shade? See what helps and what doesnt. (this is one of the things about soil....the time it takes to figure this stuff out...)

    My gut feeling is that is your soil (the words slow release make me shudder)

    Good luck.
  4. NewGrowMan

    NewGrowMan Registered

    Thanks a lot for your reply Weedhound!

    I had a wonder about the Slow Release Nitrogen as well, however, this problem was starting to occur well before I transplanted them. It started at 1 Plant when it they were in Peat Pots.
    Then while still in peat pots, more and more plants began to show the same signs... I transplanted them to the larger pots and the new Non-Miracle Grow soil hoping it would help.

    Im just hoping someone has seem these symptoms before and can give me a clue as to the problem before I loose a months worth of effort.
  5. Weedhound

    Weedhound Registered+

    I feel for you.....if you have a chance read my thread about some of my wonderful soil experiences.

    If this is happening in your peat pots what kind of water are you using? It sounds like a ph you calibrate your ph tester? What kind do you have?

    I'm just guessing on all this stuff....i'll just babble and toss out ideas and hope one of them sticks unless you tell me to shut up or find out what the problem is.

    Good luck

    PS..If it starts at the beginning you need to break down what things DO NOT CHANGE from the time you start them until the time they kick off.
  6. Weedhound

    Weedhound Registered+

  7. NewGrowMan

    NewGrowMan Registered

    Thanks WH I have seen that link before...

    Im starting to think that they are suffering from overwatering, heat stress, and a sever phospherus def, as well as lots of micrinutrient defs. I was using 1/4 strength All-Purpose Miracle gro...which I now know has no micros. I have a feeling it is a deficiency of some kind because the plant seems to be affected at the tips and leaves of new growth and not so much of the older leaves (except the ones that have been sick a long time)

    Im just looking for some sort of confirmation... not even confirmation just someonewho has maybe seen something that looks like this before.

    Im thinking of ordering Quarts of FloraGrow/Bloom/Micro from General Hydroponics, they seem to be a perfect balance of all the nutes and micros. Im wondering if anyone has used them before?

    Im also thinking of flushing all of them, and repotting them into 50% Perlite/50% Peat Moss to make sure the only nutes they are getting are the ones I give them, not to mention ensure proper drainage.

    Does anyone have any other advice? I appreciate it in advance
  8. Weedhound

    Weedhound Registered+

    I do know peat moss is known for it's poor ph....i wouldn't use it. Get a good all around potting soil and use that or ask what some others use....I'm not a soil grower. You certainly can use the flora series, the botanicare serious, the gh series, AN series....(on and on :D) They are all good products.
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2007
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  9. NewGrowMan

    NewGrowMan Registered

    Well in line with what WH was saying, has anyone had problems with Pro-Mix?

    I have heard great things but it is a mainly peatmoss soil. Anyone have experience with it?
    Should I expect to use lots of PH UP if I use it as my medium? Am I better off with a standard potting soil with no added nutrients?
  10. Weedhound

    Weedhound Registered+

    Well Stinky Attic told me peat moss has a ph somewhere in the fours or something......perhaps they adjust ph in the pro-mix?
  11. NewGrowMan

    NewGrowMan Registered

    Yes from what Ive been reading it sounds like ProMix has added Dolomitic lime to help keep the PH up. Maybe Ill add a spoonfull of extra lime just for more of a PH buffer zone.

    So since StinkyAttic seems to be the resident soil guru, does she have any idea what might be the cause of these problems? I know she responded in the other thread i bumped up, but now there are pics in this thread.

    ANy help is very very appreciated.

    Last edited: Jul 5, 2007
  12. stinkyattic

    stinkyattic CultiModerVatorAtor

    I have seen very similar patterns of necrosis on plants that were kept in a closet with insufficient fresh air movement and bad heat spikes, likely compounded by over-use of foliar sprays, including rotenone (lol I'm not exactly organic atm hahahaha).

    ProMixBX is pH stabilized, yes.

    Next time your soil dries out to where it needs watering, flush it and feed with a complete fert with micros. Get MORE air movement around those plants and watch new growth for signs of improvement.

    I know plenty of people who have been fine using the ProMix BX but I just don't like how peat holds water. Plus the pH issues but the water one is a problem with promix too. I find that it becomes waterlogged too easily, and personally prefer 60-70% compost and 30-40% perlite, which is naturally pH buffered in range and dries out well.

    Remember that cannabis- and almost all potted plants actually- wants to get fairly dry between waterings.
  13. NewGrowMan

    NewGrowMan Registered

    Thank you so much Stinky!!!

    Im a bit worried about using comost only because Im afraid of overnute'ing the plants if Im also gonna use GHGro/Bloom/Micro as my nutes from now on. I was thinking the ProMix may have been a good bet. Im thinking of leaving sterilized rocks at the bottom inch of the pots to help ensure quick draining.

    If Im not going to use ProMix, is there any kind of compost you would recommend that maybe wont give me too many nutrients in the soil already.

    Thanks again!
  14. NewGrowMan

    NewGrowMan Registered

    Also Stinky,

    Do you think that my babies may not have been drying out due to the extremely high Humidity I have had lately. Also the corner they are in in the yard doesnt get the best air circulation, just a very slight breeze. Should I hook up a fan outside? That may be a little obvious.

    Im sure If I was growing inside with HPS or MH the soil would be drying up quite quickly. Damn nature and it giving me some crappy conditions. I envy all you indoor people. :)
  15. stinkyattic

    stinkyattic CultiModerVatorAtor

    I think the compost I'm using is 1-1-1, just cheap shit (literally) from agway. The package says 'composted cow manure with humus' and it is $2.50 for 40 pounds.
    You know, part fo the problems with overferting come from salt buildup and the chemicals in the fertilizer interacting. There is a chemical in compost that helps prevent unwanted chemical interactions. PLUS if you are running enough perlite, you can flush very easily, so and buildups you have will be easier to clear.
    Also if you see signs of burn, back off on your fertilizer- same proportions, but add more water so the dilution ends up weaker.
  16. Weedhound

    Weedhound Registered+

    Stinky so rocks....:thumbsup:
  17. stinkyattic

    stinkyattic CultiModerVatorAtor

    Rock on!
  18. The Green Reaper

    The Green Reaper Registered+

    I had the same prob with 2 plants I kept in a bag with virtually no light for 2 days. I think it must have been heat or something as they were in the trunk of a car.

    Regarding soil mixes my favorite is

    60% Sunshine mix all purpose (similar to promix but doesnt get waterlogged like promix...I tried both side by side)
    10% perlite
    30% composted manure

    I didnt have access to it but next time I plan on adding worm castings to the mix.

    50% Sunshine mix
    10% perlite
    20% Wormacastings
    20% composted manure

    I think this would make a great mix. The plants in my log as curently growing in the a mixture of natural soil and the first mix I mentioned.

    JMO Happy Growing
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2007
  19. twoguysupnorth

    twoguysupnorth Registered+

    hey stinky, thats why peat is good for outdoor. it holds moisture. but of course i dont test my ph either. yet.
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2007
  20. twoguysupnorth

    twoguysupnorth Registered+

    oops i spoke to soon, im having my own problems right now and from what ive read it could be part of the problem.

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