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Is this Mag & Cal or ? deficiency?

Discussion in 'Plant Problems' started by Happy Retiree, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. Happy Retiree

    Happy Retiree Registered+

    Hello... We're growing indoors in soil. Take a look at these photos. Does it look like a magnesium &/or calcium deficiency? The plants just started their 6th week in flower. We fertilize every other watering & pH is always around the mid 6's. PPM in our water is around 60. Day temp in the room is around 75. Thanks for your help.

    2013-02-23 11.25.42.jpg 2013-02-23 11.25.58.jpg 2013-02-23 11.32.04.jpg 2013-02-23 16.35.23.jpg 2013-02-23 16.35.41.jpg
     
  2. Happy Retiree

    Happy Retiree Registered+

    Gee, there have been 248 views of my post, yet not one reply.:( Is there a reason for that? Help me out here fellas. Thanks.
     
  3. Mal420xl

    Mal420xl Registered+

    there is indeed a reason, actually several. the main one is a little more info is required. try this link it should help you get more replies. http://boards.cannabis.com/plant-problems/173775-cancom-copy-n-paste-troubleshooting-forms.html
    the other is if you look there are between 1000 and 2000+ people on this site at any one time but out of them 5 or 6 may actually be members that can or will post. once you get the form filled out it will make things easier to pin down what may be going on.
    pics are good but just about everything makes them yellow and curl and dry out one way or another.
     
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  4. Mal420xl

    Mal420xl Registered+

    you spraying anything on them?
     
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  5. Burnt Toast

    Burnt Toast Registered+

    Exactly. Unregistered individuals (aka Guests) can view posts and drive up the view tally as well as the registered members. The guests just cannot post replies or start new threads until they register and become members. Just exhibit some patience. A registered member will eventually come along to offer the help that youre seeking if s/he has any to offer.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
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  6. Happy Retiree

    Happy Retiree Registered+

    No, we are not spraying. Never have. We're growing Jack Flash & average 3 ozs dry. But we always get this situation & not sure what to do about it. Thank you!
     
  7. polishpollack

    polishpollack Registered+

    Magnesium deficiency. Could be another micro nute as well, but that golden yellow spotting very much looks like mg def. Epsom salt, say about 1/2 tsp per gallon or water might do the trick, but since you've had this problem for a while, I might go with just a little more salt, say 3/4 to full tsp in gallon of water, water with that only for now, and see what happens, repairs will take place within two days. yellow spotting should disappear, but dead brown leaves will not recover. Feel free to pull the off. a better thing to do is go a hydro shop and get botanicare's calmag and follow the directions on the back for dose rate. Don't give to much or too frequently, as too much won't help, but enough will. I'm wondering if you also have a calcium def there, so calmag should help as it has both. Before you go to the store however, take a look at your fert container ingredients and see if calcium and magnesium are present. If they are, then I'm baffled as to your problem. It could be that you're giving too much of NPK without some micro nutes. I know I seem like a Dynagro salesman in these forums, BUT..... I have to advocate the use of their ferts because you only need one bottle for veg and one for flowering, if you want to buy it. The Dynagro ferts have pretty much all the nutes plants needs, to include things like boron, sulphur, zinc, and yes, calcium and magnesium. Sometimes I think I come across like a jerk but it really does pay to do some homework. For now, try some epsom salt in water and see what happens in a couple of days. You can get it at a pharmacy and it's a cheap fix rather than buying a different fert. Also, in the future please take photos in white light so we can better see color.
     
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  8. Shovelhandle

    Shovelhandle Registered+

    I don't know. But I have four Neville's Haze x Afghani running that are all like that. They burned up like that early on in flower but the other two strains are just fine. This same strain did that last time I ran them. I tried flushing but once that burn happens there isn't much going back. The plants continue to grow ever so slowly, they are just starting week 10 bloom cycle. They have an awesome aroma though. But none of the strains are ripe yet.

    So I think they are sensitive to some nutrient, not a deficiency, imo. They were fed cal-mag plus with 100% organic compost teas and nutes. The other two strains (fourteen plants) showed no overfeeding. This is my last four seeds so the question will go unanswered, for my strain.
     
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
  9. polishpollack

    polishpollack Registered+

    It's a little confusing because some of the damage is so bad. The golden yellow spotting is typically mag def. If there is no magnesium in the fert or soil, then that could be it. That's my best guess without knowing what in the ferts. This is why you want to answer the questions, to provide more details.
    Shovel, I don't think a plant can be sensitive to a nutrient while not showing any sign of overfeeding. I guess you're referring to genetics, one type being more sensitive, but just be sure that it is nutrient burning that's happening. That's the hard part because plants will yellow, brown, develop spots, and die and unless you know what can cause each one and the pattern they appear in, it can be impossible to know exactly what's wrong. It's not just the leaf appearance to examine but a grower needs to know what happened first... did the leaf tissue turn yellow, then brown, or just go straight brown. Did the color change first take place at the leaf tip or more into the leaf itself? Did the color change first develop at the lower leaves or in the middle of the plant or at the top? Answers to these questions can help pinpoint what the problem is.
     
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  10. Shovelhandle

    Shovelhandle Registered+

    crispy burned, yellow and brown leaves can certainly be a sign of overfeeding. What to you consists of signs of overfeeding?
     
  11. polishpollack

    polishpollack Registered+

    Not all brown leaves are "burned by chemistry." The leaves in the photos have magnesium deficiency. Advanced stage of leaf tissue death will always look brown and crispy, but determining the cause is the issue.
     
  12. polishpollack

    polishpollack Registered+

    Happyretiree, let us know how things worked out.
     
  13. Happy Retiree

    Happy Retiree Registered+

    Sorry, but I've been away & that's why you haven't back from me. I filled out the form & included a spreadsheet of my feeding formula, but it won't format correctly in this post.

    What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...) EXPERIENCED NOVICE – BEEN GROWING FOR SEVERAL YEARS

    What type of hydro set-up are you running? NONE - SOIL

    Your Equipment:
    A) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's) HPS
    B) Distance from tops? 2 FEET
    C) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...) ENCLOSED REFLECTOR
    D) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 1000 WATTS, 12 ON, 12 OFF
    E) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? YES
    F) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? YES
    G) Size of reservoir?
    H) What medium if applicable. OCEAN HARVEST SOIL

    Your nutrients and water:
    I) If using rockwoll for clones or seedlings, did you rinse the cubes well, with properly ph'd water? WE DON’T RINSE, PH IS AROUND 6.5, WE HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH CUTTINGS
    J) Source of water. (tap or filtered) What's it's ph? TAP, UNFILTERED, 6.3-6.8
    K) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule.

    FOXFARM TIGERBLOOM 2-8-4
    FOXFARM BIG BLOOM 1-3-7
    OPEN SESAME N 5%, Phosphate 45%, Potash 19%, Sulphur 2%, Iron .15%, Manganese .05%, Zinc .05%
    BEASTIE BLOOMZ 0-50-30
    CHA CHING 9-50-10

    All feeding done to manufacturers' specifications.



    L) What is the ec/ppm of your unadjusted tap (or filtered) water? Under 100
    M) What is the ec/ppm of your nutrient solution?
    N) What is the temperature of your nutrient solution? (reservoir high and low temps)
    O) Does your ec/ppm show a rise or fall when you do your daily PPM check? We don’t check daily.
    P) Does the ph fluctuate? NO
    Q) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you
    spray? (Just after lights come on, just before they go out...) WE DO NOT FOLIAR FEED.
    R) How often do you replace reservoir water/nutes? What does it look like before changes? (clear, foamy, green, brown...)

    Your growroom:
    S) What size of closet, room or hut? ROOM IS 12FT X 15FT. WE HAVE 3 1000 WATT LIGHTS WITH REFLECTOR screens TO CREATE 4 WALLS THAT CONTAIN THE GARDEN WITH THE SPACE OF THE LIGHTS.
    T) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? MID 70 DEGREES 35-45% HUMIDITY ...With lights off? LOW 70’S – I DON’T KNOW THE HUMIDITY WITH LIGHTS OFF.
    U) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? NONE
    V) Are the roots long and white, or brown and slimy? LONG & WHITE

    Your strain:
    W) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) JACK FLASH SATIVA DOMINATE
    X) From seeds or clones? ORIGINALLY FROM SEED, NOW FROM CLONES
    Y) Is this an autoflower strain? I DON’T KNOW
     
  14. Happy Retiree

    Happy Retiree Registered+

    2013-03-10 13.26.20.jpg 2013-03-10 13.45.31.jpg 2013-03-10 13.45.57.jpg 2013-03-10 13.46.19.jpg 2013-03-10 13.46.45.jpg

    Here are some more photos. I know the color isn't great even though I took the pics in good light with a flash. The coloring is the same as in my original pictures.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  15. Happy Retiree

    Happy Retiree Registered+

    Good color on this. Week 3 of Flowering Jack Flash. Wk 3 Flower 03 19 (800x600).jpg
     
  16. Happy Retiree

    Happy Retiree Registered+

    Different plant, same problem.
    Wk 3 Flower Jack Flash.jpg
     
  17. Shovelhandle

    Shovelhandle Registered+

    I wish I knew, Retiree.
    As I posted, I've had a similar problem and I have a similar grow to yours, good products, proper feeding, lighting temp and pH. One strain hated it and the other strains loved it. I know that a lockout from too much something can look like not enough something. We'll both be happy when we solve this dilemma.
     
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  18. Happy Retiree

    Happy Retiree Registered+

    Evidently, the FoxFarm nute schedule is too strong. This type of "burn" happens in every one of my Jack Flash crops. Unusually, it occurs much later in the Flowering cycle as opposed to this time when it started in the 2nd week. The "schedule" was not created for cannabis plants & being that not all plants are created equal, it's entirely possible it's overkill - no pun intended.

    I'm going to straight water the next 2 times, then go 1/2 strength on FoxFarm. If anyone has a better way of handling this, I'm all ears.
     
  19. polishpollack

    polishpollack Registered+

    Crap, I think I was wrong. I took the spotting to be mag deficiency because that's usually how it appears, but this is why you want to take photos in white light, not sodium. I thought the spotting was a golden color but that was made by the sodium light. It actually appears to be a brown color. I didn't realize last time that you're giving so much phosphorus. That is your problem. Any reason why you are giving so much? that's a LOT of P. Chances are, all you really need is the Tigerbloom. Make sure that it has micronutes, like mag, calcium, sulphur, boron, etc., or you'll have to supplement. It's hard to supplement without giving more fert since most of the micro fert products contain at least some of the macro nutes. One more reason why I advocate Dynagro, because it's pretty simple, has everything you need, and you have to go out of your way to screw it up. The Foxfarm schedule doesn't take into account the adding of more ferts. Just water and let the soil dry out before you water again. Maybe it isn't too late.
     
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  20. Happy Retiree

    Happy Retiree Registered+

    Good to hear from you. Why so much P? Just following the FF schedule of feeding, but I am adding Open Sesame, Beastie Bloomz & Cha Ching. Tiger Bloom has 8% & Big Bloom has .3% & Grow Big has 4%. Tiger Bloom has Mag, Boron, Copper, Iron, Manganese & Zinc. All trace amounts.

    I'm into week 3 of Flowering now. Unfortunately, I already watered with nutes today - 2 tsp Grow Big 6-4-4, 2 tsp Tiger Bloom 2-8-4 & 1 Tbl Big Bloom .01-.3-.7, 1/4 tsp Beastie Bloomz 50% P, 30% Potash, Boron, Copper, Iron, Manganese, Zinc. Do I need to take the plants outside & flush? Or just wait till next watering & use no nutes. I have 16 plants & don't want to lose them so I'll do whatever it takes.
     
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