Nondecarboxylized Tincture

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by Jack Stargazer, Nov 5, 2017.

  1. Jack Stargazer

    Jack Stargazer Registered

    Hey all,

    So, I added cannabis to Everclear to make a tincture, but I forgot to decarboxylate the cannabis first.

    1) What can I do to rectify this? (Heat the alcohol directly or in a water bath?)

    2) Will the tincture work as is? (Or will it have to be added to cooked/baked items to have an effect?)

    3) Help!

    Thanks!
     
  2. GrowGoddess

    GrowGoddess Registered+

    You have a few of options here.
    First, you could seal it up in a jar and store it for at least 120 days, and it will fully naturally decarb on its own. You may want to shake it here and there and burp the container a few times throughout the 120 days to allow the CO2 to escape. After no more CO2 escapes, it should be decarbed and taste different.
    Second, you could pour it into a rice cooker and simmer it until it thickens up. At that point you could pour it into a jar or vial. I would still recommend allowing it to sit for a couple of weeks to a month so it can finish dearbing.
    Last, you have another option to put into the rice cooker and add more alcohol and allow it to boil for 15 minutes to 1/2 hour, adding more alcohol as needed. It should at that point be decarbed. You still might want to wait 48 hours or so to get the full effects.
    If you are hung up on the double boiler, that would be similar to the rice cooker options.

    Just my opinion.
    Personally, I would take the first option and allow the product to naturally decarb.
     
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  3. Weezard

    Weezard Registered+

    There is a problem with that.
    Alcohol is an azeotrope.
    It's boiling point changes as it's water ratio changes.
    (That is why you can not get 100% alcohol through distillation.)

    Pure Ethanol boils at roughly 170° F. But, as you add water, the BP rises but the hottest it can get until the water boils off is 212° F.
    Even that, will take many hours to fully decarb.

    temperature chart.jpg


    I'm thinking that the easiest option here is patience. Lots of patience.
    How much, will depend on the storage temperature.

    If there are time constraint, (medical needs, etc.), I'd add the tincture to my favorite cookie mix and bake them @ 350° F. for 15 minutes.

    Aloha,
    Weeze
     
  4. GrowGoddess

    GrowGoddess Registered+

    I
    I agree with your statements, but do not fully agree with the graph.

    The graph does not show facts or science when it comes to the timeline, it is deceiving. The coolest temperature of decarbing will hit the highest THC levels, but with this graph it does not show that, because the timeline is not long enough. Not to mention the humidity, sea level, type of solvent, etc.
    The graph does not fully represent the cannabis community. It is only showing THCa to THC. I can confidently say that when we are dealing with an extraction of 80 or more cannibinoids it will alter the effects in time and temperature for THC to decarb. I have done comparisons. Different strains will react differently as well. A clean extraction vs. a dirty extraction also has different effects. A dirty extraction will decarb more quickly. My theory on that is there are more compounds in the more dirty extraction therefore causing the THCa to decarb more quickly. I cannot explain why, but have experienced the outcome with a side-by-side comparison.

    Anyway, not trying to argue, just stating an opinion.
     
  5. Weezard

    Weezard Registered+

    You make some good points.

    I agree that the chart is deceiving, but because it does show science, rather than real world situation.
    It shows pure resin on a glass plate.
    I posted it as a visual aid.
    User times will vary, but not by much

    And you are quite correct. A long, slow, decarb will give a more complete reaction and that peak will last much longer.

    Here's what I disagree with;


    12 hours perhaps, but a half hour at those temps is insufficient.
    That option is not viable for the reasons stated in my first post.


    Hmmm, Food for thought. You may have something there.
    But from what little chemistry I know you are only talking about a very small change.
    I'd guess less than 1 minute.


    Now you have my full attention. :)

    Please show me the chromatography on those side by sides.
    Subjective judgement on a side by side is interesting enough to get me running some tests.
    But I need objective proof to draw any conclusions.

    And I have to add that it is a pleasure to meet someone who understands the value of a civil debate. :)

    Aloha,
    Weeze
     
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  6. GrowGoddess

    GrowGoddess Registered+

    I do so wish I had access to a chromatograph. It would be so much easier to prove my theories. All I have is the outcome of several side-by-side comparisons being the same after multiple trials. Even my patients agree. Our medical marijuana laws here in Michigan have prevented me from taking any samples to a testing facility in a manner that is lawful. Too bad too.

    My first assumption was that the graph was just used as a visual aid.

    I have had an experience, and not comfortable either. I did a long soak of bud material in 99% iso. I had the buds in a jar with the alcohol for about 2 weeks. After the 2 weeks I did the evaporation using the Rick Simpson method. I'll tell you what, that was the most potent oil experience I have ever had. Never did a long soak extraction again!!
     
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  7. Jay real

    Jay real Registered

     
  8. Jay real

    Jay real Registered

    Hi grow goddess I did same with glycerin. Can this be rectified.
     
  9. GrowGoddess

    GrowGoddess Registered+

    I am guessing you are wanting to decarb your mixture. I am not familiar with glycerin tinctures. Maybe a hot water bath like you mentioned with the alcohol previously?
    Weezard or someone else would probably be a better resource for this one.

    My experience is with alcohol extracts in making concentrates and mixing with PG for ecannabis oil. My only exposure to glycerin is for ecigarette oil mixtures. In my experience with cannabis oil glycerin does not mix well, but I don't know how it does with tinctures.

    Hopefully somebody with knowledge in this area chimes in.
     
  10. Weezard

    Weezard Registered+

    Should be no problem.
    The boiling point of glycerol is 540° F.
    And the flash point is 320° F.
    Heating to 260° F. for about 30 minutes should drive off the alcohol and water.
    They will be large bubbles.
    CO2 bubbles are tiny. When they begin to taper off, it's ready.
    I have trouble mixing oil with glycerine unless there is ethanol in the mix.
    Even then, I use an ultrasonic jewelry cleaning bath to get a good mix.
    Aloha,
    Wee 'zard
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
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  11. Plumber07

    Plumber07 Registered+

    I'm really enjoying this arthor: https://wakeandbake.co/nova/

    Good info. I believe I read the decarb device she's hawking for $210 runs at 120 F (?) not positive. Maybe it was volts? I'll have to do a bit more research. It sure would be nice but I can get a half or more of the good stuff for that price.
     
  12. Weezard

    Weezard Registered+

    That's 120° C. which is 248° F. so the science is right.
    It's the price that's wacky.
    $250 for a cup with a heater, a narrow band switch, and a timer?
    Not me!
    It is worth $20. :)
    I'll make my own. :)
     
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