The Definitive Green Dragon (Revised, Updated, Combined)

Discussion in 'Concentrates' started by Master Wu, Sep 13, 2006.

  1. lyshygurl

    lyshygurl Registered

    that's what i was thinking.

    i think i'm going to give it a shot at 293 for 7 minutes. my buds are pretty airy and fairly dry but not crumbling at all. let ya know how it goes. i made a batch of GD but it's not quite strong as I had hoped probably because I did 15-20 mins at 250... also saw someone writing about washing the weed to possibly make sure i didn't lose anything the first go. I also simmered a bit longer because i used more bud(1/2oz of airy purple someone gave me) and more alcohol ( 6oz Diesel 153 proof vodka) and simmered it down to 4 oz. THEN I was feeling CURIOUS and cut it in half put 2 oz back in the jar and the water bath and simmered that down to 1 oz. Geez. So what happened was I tested the first batch right away did 1 dropper to see what would happen. Not too bad but not very strong. I tried the 2nd batch that i thought would be more concentrated since i evaporated another 1 oz of the alcohol off but the one dropper of that didn't do shit. I don't know why maybe i f*ed it up. But I have more buds to play with so I'm gonna try decarbin' that way... 293 @ 7 minutes....

    Also Missilly-
    I was thinking about turning the GD thats not all that strong into some hash oil like you did. Did you just boil ALL the alcohol off that AND then how did you get it to a good conistancy to ball it up and smoke that shit? :)


    LEt ya'll know how this next one goes.
     
  2. patmonk

    patmonk Registered+

    TINCTURES.
    What am I doing wrong. I assume 175F is the correct temp for double boiler water bath set up. Nothing happened. Tried second small batch at 175C, still no action. Using Everclear.
     
  3. theflowersays

    theflowersays Registered+

    Master Wu-
    I have read a few other recipes for making potent cannabis tincture and was wondering what your thoughts were about soaking the cannabis powder in water, post decarboxylation, to remove any water-soluble impurities.
    Hope to hear from you soon. Thank you so much for the updated methodology!
    Sincerely,
    theflowersays
     
  4. Melchizedek

    Melchizedek Registered+

    Just so everyone who has a place around a lot of neighbors - when you decarb use OVEN BAGS (The ones made for cooking turkey's and shit). As long as you don't squeeze the bag too much when you pull it out of the oven.
     
  5. photogman

    photogman Registered+

    Great thread! I have successfully made the Green Dragon with some modifications a few times. Get's easier every time.

    At any rate, I'd like to create a sublingual spray or dropper concentrate with the GD.

    Does anyone have ay experience in creating something similar while removing the majority of the alcohol? I think I would have to reduce the alcohol content significantly and then mix with Veg glycerin or another emulsifying agent. Any ideas on what would be best to mix with the GD to make it manageable to take sublingually?

    Thanks!
     
  6. GaliMatias

    GaliMatias Registered+

    I will definately try this soon.
    Stupid question: I can't use some old 37.5% vodka that i have laying around right? That would be like 70 proof.
     
  7. Weezard

    Weezard Registered+

    If you can heat a water bath to 175C. without a pressure cooker, something is in fact very wrong.

    Water boils at 100C. and will hold that temperature until all that water becomes steam.

    175F. is just above the boiling point of Ethanol and below the boiling point of water.
    And, as the Ethanol boils off, it's BP rises!
    You mileage will vary because the heat transfer varies in efficiency, but is never 100%.
    So, if the water bath is 175F. the actual tincture temperature will be quite a bit lower

    Buy an infrared thermometer, and monitor the actual temperature of the tincture.

    That said, this thread is about the worst method of extraction ever.
    It's Master Wu, verses actual scientific facts.
    Even a little research will show that this Green dragon recipe leaves much to be desired.

    Google Gray Wolf and learn to do tinctures properly.
    You can thank me later, or mo' betta, spread the word so folk will quit wasting meds with this nonsense.

    Aloha Y'all,

    Weezard


     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. maryvv22

    maryvv22 Registered+

    To all those worried about the smell using this recipe (or any smelly cooking odors). Try this. Put any kind of apple cider or white vinegar, maybe one cup's worth, in a small pan on stove and heat it up to boiling. Then take pan off stove move around the room where the smell's are. You can have it already going before the smell happens. I don't know how or why it works but I've gotten rid of some really fishy odors using this technique. I haven't tried it on pot odors but it's supposed to work on cigarette odors also so I figured it was worth a try. Let me know if you try this and how it works. This is my first post....wooowhooo!
     
  9. Sweet Thang

    Sweet Thang Registered+

    You would think with all these posts SOMEONE would have posted pics of the process to help the visual learners.....
     
  10. GreenDiet

    GreenDiet Registered

    Last edited: Mar 1, 2015
  11. GreenDiet

    GreenDiet Registered

    Oh @Sweet Thang I made a new tincture tutorial using the same ratios Master Wu uses. In this recipe I've opted not to decarb to keep the THCA but if you want to get higher THC, do the Master Wu recommended decarb first and have at it bro :)

     
  12. megamanx_90

    megamanx_90 Registered

    View attachment 325111 20150901_142601.jpg View attachment 325113 View attachment 325114 20150904_202525.jpg 20150904_202725.jpg I have been wanting to try to make this for a while. Recently, I began experimenting with making this. 3 failed batches and lots of reading later, I seriously wondered what could be wrong. It tasted like weed/alcohol and smelled like it too, but no potent high. Of course, it's gotta be that darned decarboxylation process that's tripping me up. So, this time, I read through this whole thread as well as looking on other websites/YouTube for information. What I have decided is that MasterWu's step to decarb the weed at 325 F for 4-5 minutes is very crucial and also tricky to pull off (as in, easy to fuck up and ruin your batch). Other people who seem like they are competent and have actually made Green Dragon also seem to favor 325 F at 4-5 minutes (or 250 F for 20-30 minutes, which I haven't tried, (yet)). I have also decided that it is wiser to do test batches 1 g of weed at a time, unless you actually know what you are doing already.

    Anyways, I have made batch #4 last night and will list the details and my thoughts on what I used/did. I will also note that I'm a 2nd year engineering student if that makes anyone feel better about my post :p That doesn't make me a genius but I do have some basic chem/physics knowledge. I am testing my batch today and with a ratio of [1 gram weed] : [~0.85 fl. oz Bacardi 151]. If that seems high on the Bacardi 151, it's because I thought maybe an issue here is that the cannabinoids reach saturation in the 151 at a certain point. After all, the Bacardi 151 is like, 75% ethanol, 25% water to start. If you boil that away, I am assuming most of what boiled away is ethanol, since we assume the water in the solvent is not at 212 F but at ~170 F, so it mostly didn't vaporize. If this is the case, then we can clearly see that boiling it down to 1/2 its volume implies the solvent is now 50/50 ethanol/H2O. Where you had 1.5 fl oz ethanol in 2 fl oz of rum, you now have .5 fl oz of ethanol, which is our only solvent. That's a reduction of 66%! We can now only dissolve 1/3 of the cannabinoids that we could with the unboiled 2 fl oz of rum if we reduce the volume by 1/2. I am thinking maybe trying to avoid reductin, or trying to obtain higher proof alcohol where I live, might work in my favor. On my 3rd failed batch I reduced the 2 fl oz of Bacardi to 1 fl oz and had tried 2 g of weed. The resulting mixture had lots of "floaties" (precipitate), even a few seconds after giving it a good stir they would still not appear to dissolve. In contrast, this more diluted mix from batch #4 stays homogeneous for a while. It appears amber brown/dark green.

    Anyways, what I used:

    1 g weed
    2 fl oz bacardi 151 (~60 ml or ~1/4 cup)
    flat baking pan
    small metal cooking pot
    spatula
    oven thermometer
    digital candy thermometer
    aluminium foil
    wood skewer sticks x6
    small "purse" clips x2
    small glass jar
    funnel
    cheese cloth
    mason jar or glass cup to fit funnel onto
    measuring cup
    ml dropper
    small pyrex container
    weed grinder
    a timer

    What I did:
    1. Placed the baking pan on the middle rack in the oven. Placed the oven thermometer on the baking pan. Turned the oven on to bake at 200 F to preheat.

    2. Measured out a gram of weed and broke into small, <= pinky nail sized nugs. Created a small pan of aluminium foil, only about 6'' x 6'', small enough to be lifted by spatula. Placed the weed in the middle of this pan.

    3. When the oven thermometer read steady at 200 F, I took my spatula and used it to place the aluminum tray onto the metal tray in the oven. It takes me <= 4 seconds to open the oven door, put the weed in, and close it again. Set the timer to 20 minutes. Made sure that the oven temperature wasn't spiking.

    *I believe this step might help in drying the weed first. I weighed the weed after and it was only .89 grams instead of 1.01 that I had originally. It didn't change color but it was dried out. I think this may help in creating more consistent conditions for the decarboxylation.

    4. After 20 minutes, took weed out with spatula. Turned oven up to 325 F.

    5. Ground the weed up, not super fine. Placed weed back onto aluminium tray and used cardboard to kind of pile it together. I then flattened this pile to a height of < 5 mm.

    6. After the oven thermometer sat at 325 for > 5 minutes, I used the spatula to transfer the pan of weed into the oven again. Already having set my timer for 4 minutes, I quickly started it and watched. After about 4 minutes and a few seconds, I noticed the smell of weed and quickly took the aluminium tray out of the oven with the spatula. I observed some vapors coming off of the weed as I did so. It looked like a wisp of fog. The weed looked a golden brown color.

    *I am thinking perhaps I baked it a tad too long here, due to the vapors I noticed, and the fact that I dried it first. I will try it again for 3min:30sec next time and compare with this batch.

    7. I transferred the weed into the small jar and then poured the measured Bacardi 151 into the jar, letting it run down the foil pan on the way. I placed the cut off ends of 2 wood skewers under the jar, to prevent direct contact with the bottom of the pan, and vibrations from vapor bubbles forming. I then created a kind of support for the thermometer to rest on the pot and point into the jar. I filled the pot to about a cm under the level of the alcohol with water, and placed it onto the stove at max heat. Once the thermometer read 130 F, I took the pot off the stove and turned it down to medium low. The alcohol's temperature kept rising to 170 F. When you stir it a bit, it heats faster. When you leave it alone, it cools faster. When you pour a little bit of cool water at a time into the hot water, the rum cools faster. Don't pour a bunch of cool water in at once though, and don't pour it in near the jar. x_x I kept it above 165 for 25 minutes. I tried not to let any boil away but lost a bit more than half the volume.

    8. After that, I took it off the element, turned off the stove, and let the jar cool for a couple minutes after taking it out of the water. I then poured the mix into the mason jar, filtering it with a funnel and 4 layers of cheesecloth. The remaining weed I spooned out of the small jar onto the cheese cloth, and pressed two spoons together to squeeze any liquid[​IMG] out.

    9. I poured the filtered drink into my glass pyrex container. It's strong and glass is good for storing such things.



    So, I should note I have a high tolerance for weed. I've been smoking a lot over the summer. I plan to take a tolerance break now and then to try this after a few days and report any effects. I'm also sick with a cold I just got 2 days ago, so that messes with my highs (even smoking highs), which means I will take a break until I am at least not sick. I should also probably smoke less in general since I'll be in school all year. Anyways, the resulting liquid[​IMG] appears amber brown in color. I can see green too when I shine light through it. It's interesting for sure. I got about .8 fl oz of it. I saved the leftover weed as well. I attached some pictures which some may find interesting to look at. I tried some today without smoking anything and I think I feel some sort of effect, but again, sickness messes with me.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 5, 2015
  13. megamanx_90

    megamanx_90 Registered

    Did a 5th and 6th batch.

    5th batch: used 1g of weed, 50 ml of Bacardi 151, did the baking for 3min:40sec, noticed an odor at 3min:20sec, noticed the stronger smell at 3min:30sec, and did boiling for 30 minutes.

    6th batch I did a bit different. I put the dried ground weed in tin foil and wrapped it shut, instead of leaving it open to the oven air. When taking it out I did not see any vapors escaping the foil. I did smell a strong creamed corn/pea soup smell though. I placed the tin foil in the fridge, and then the freezer, to cool it. Then, after 5 minutes, I dumped the weed into my mason jar. I poured ethanol over the tin foil so it would wash in the leftover weed. The lid of my mason jar has a few tiny holes poked into it and a ziploc bag taped over it. The bag is airtight with the lid, so ethanol vapors will expand the bag, relieving the pressure in the jar when it boils and also not letting the solvent escape. I feel like getting ahold of everclear or something stronger than Bacardi 151 will help me avoid this step. When the ethanol is 75%, losing 1/2 the volume results in a concentration of only 50%. Using everclear though, 1/2 volume loss lowers the concentration from 95% to ~82%. Anyways, I used 2g of weed and 60 ml of 151. When I checked after, I still had about 45-50 ml of liquid extracted. I will be taking a tolerance break, and then testing this final batch. I mixed in what was left of batch 4-5 too, only adding about 7 droppers full.
     

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  14. northern2020

    northern2020 Registered

    Greetings folks

    Been following this thread for a while, first post.

    I've made 4 batches of green dragon with incredible success which varies on one variable - the heat/boil temperature - with the decarb method I find online which I think takes all the guesswork out of the game.

    Firstly - I use a controlled de-carb, which I believe is incredibly accurate



    7 grams to 2.5 ounces of everclear at a boil of 200 F for 1 hr 40 minutes.

    Sure it's pricy but I'm a purist - and wanted to get this step dialed in.

    Out of my 4 batches - the ones that are lights out had me boil the everclear at 170-180 for 20 minutes - a vigorous boil.

    The one batch I had at just under 170 and it was simmered - with only some turbulent activity occurring.

    I'm at least 2000 feet above sea level so my mixture boiled between 160-170

    It resulted in approximately 1/3 reduction, and the first full dropper hit me like a truck.

    Took a full dropper over 20 mins on an empty stomach. Had some food about 45 minutes later and bam! Was completely red and spiritual for at least 6 hours, and I woke up buzzed.

    Never been that red ever - and it felt very medicinal.

    Will post with exact steps but I copied the video above, and used masters recipe with a vigorous boil (boil temp affected my outside temp and altitude)
     
  15. DSJ

    DSJ Registered

    Hi there ...Im a newby from oz and the only solvent I can get is Isopropyl. No high grade alcohol here :( and Im looking to make a first time batch....Help please
     
  16. Taurich

    Taurich Registered

    In Aus it's Bacardi 151, moonshine, or blindness my friend :(
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. DSJ

    DSJ Registered

    Might just go the coconut oil in the magic butter maker? Still as potent re medical value to you think?....But will obviously need more for dosage....trial and error I suppose...any advise would be greatly appreciated and cheers Taurich :)
     
  18. megamanx_90

    megamanx_90 Registered

    Hello to whoever happens to be reading this...

    I did another batch of marijuana tincture. Here are some things I've learned overall from experimenting with this, which I will list for anyone who wants to delve into this without making the same mistakes I made:

    - It's not an exact science when you do it at home, because the home likely is lacking a spectrometer to analyse the cannabinoid contents of the plant material and the tincture itself. The home is also lacking precision control chemistry equipment for decarboxylating the marijuana and also for heating the solvent (usually Bacardi 151) to rapidly break the thc free from the plant material and dissolve it. It's not too expensive to make a worthwhile tincture at home, but one who has finer equipment and know-how will of course obtain a finer product. There are ready to buy tinctures and even oral sprays out there from medical marijuana companies (though usually very expensive).
    - Decarboxylating the marijuana is very important. The initial plant matter contains almost no THC. This is where a lot of confusion and misinformation usually comes in. The concise truth is: the plant matter starts with an initial amount of THCA (tetrahydrocannabinolic acid). This acid does not create the euphoric effect that THC does create. It has an extra COOH (aka a carboxyl group) attached to it which makes it THCA and not THC. You don't have to pretend to know the chemistry if you don't. All you need to know is that decarboxylating the weed will change certain molecules in it, one important one being THCA to THC, if you want a euphoriant instead of an anti-inflammatory. The THCA loses its COOH group naturally over time, and even faster when heated to certain temperatures, and it releases CO2 and H2O when it does.
    - There are other substances in the marijuana which you will lose more of with higher temperatures, I think. I won't pretend to know about any of these other cannabinoids and how to prevent losing them. I think it's likely that lower temperatures/longer time decarboxylating will result in more of these cannabinoids being saved. Also, when I decarboxylate my weed I wrap it in aluminium foil so that no vapours escape. I also think using a pizza stone is wise along with an oven thermometer, to ensure stable and accurate temperatures. Place the foil wrapped weed on the stone once the temperature on the thermometer stays constant.
    - When doing the extraction, you don't want to lose any solvent, especially if using Bacardi 151. When you evaporate the alcohol there is less of it to dissolve the thc. For this reason I use a mason jar for the extraction. I was brave and did it with the lid sealed for 30 minutes, but I realize this is dangerous and do not recommend it to anyone. Instead, I would recommend refluxing the solvent instead. Basically, you seal the mason jar with plastic on top, and place a metal bowl filled with ice over the plastic. This creates a convex cold surface for the ethanol vapours to collect on and drip from, back down into the liquid below.

    I've also come up with a quadratic regression equation for decarb time caps (Y) vs various temperatures (X), based on information from other sources:

    Y = .004(X^2) - 2.71X + 463.33

    http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=quadratic+fit+{{220,+60},+{250,+35},+{325,4}}

    Which means that at temperature X, you will probably be losing THC at or slightly before the cap time Y. At lower temperatures, the loss in THC happens slower. At higher temperatures, you lose it more quickly. The loss in THC is probably due to it being degraded into CBN, which is what happens when you heat it for too long. This is why I place the foil in the freezer immediately out of the oven.

    So, in shorts, my current method of extraction would be:

    Materials:

    3.5g of marijuana
    50 ml of Bacardi 151 or Everclear or something with >= 75% ethanol content
    Aluminium foil
    Pizza stone (if you want good temperature control, otherwise, I also used a flat baking pan)
    Oven thermometer
    Grinder
    Mason jar
    Circle of plastic material, like a Glad garbage bag, enough to cover top of jar and hold in place with elastic
    Small metal bowl
    Ice
    Stovetop pot

    1) Pre-dry The Weed:
    Preheat oven to 200-210 F with pizza stone (or baking pan) inside, and oven thermometer. When you have it so the thermometer stays constant, place the ungrinded weed on the stone with foil underneath it. Leave it in for about 20 minutes. This will evaporate any water molecules while leaving the good stuff alone. This step ensures a more consistent decarboxylation.

    2) Decarboxylate The Weed:
    Preheat oven to a temperature between 220-325 F. Let time = .004(temp^2) - 2.71(temp) + 463.33. Or in other words, 220 F for a max of 60 minutes, 250 F for 35 minutes, or 325 F for 4 minutes. The temperature should ideally remain as constant as possible. Grind the weed onto enough foil to be able to fold it in half over the weed, then fold the other 3 edges inwards 3 times each to create a sealed pocket. Before sealing it in, ensure it is gathered together and flattened to about 3 mm thick. Then seal it, and place it in the oven when the oven is ready. When it is done you should smell it. Don't open the foil yet! Place it in the freezer first, for about 5-10 minutes.

    3) Extract The Goods:
    Once the weed has cooled, open it up and dump the plant material into the mason jar. Use the alcohol to wash off any remaining residue from the aluminium foil into the mason jar. Boil the jar in water, plastic covering the mouth and held on with elastic, and with the metal bowl with ice on top of that. That should prevent any alcohol escaping. Don't let the water boil vigorously though. Once it starts boiling rapidly, take it off the stove and turn down the heat. Place it back on, and off, as needed. This step is very dangerous so be careful.

    4) Filter Out The Solids:
    Once the liquid has boiled long enough, take it out of the water. Let it cool if it's still boiling/vaporizing inside the jar. Then take the plastic off the lid and pour the liquid into your funnel lined with cheese cloth. You can also use a coffee filter to get more solids out. I like using two spoons to press as much liquid out of the cheesecloth as I can.

    I find that the green dragon I have made has a very mellow effect. It's not like smoking weed. I don't get that immediate head high. What I find is that it's a high that chills me out. And it lasts hours since taking it. It also amplifies the effects of smoking weed, working kind of like a combo effect. I like it. It's another dimension of enjoying cannabis. I want to try it one day after not using any cannabis and see what the effects are like.

    Anyways, here are some attached pictures from my last batch of what I used. That is the color of decarbed weed.
     

    Attached Files:

  19. megamanx_90

    megamanx_90 Registered

    Did another batch. Decided to start recording some data, as well as finalized my procedure. Long story short:

    1) Dried 3.64g of Purple Kush weed in oven at 200 F for 20 minutes. Left them whole. Grinded them after drying.

    2) Baked weed for an average of 24 minutes at an average of 238 F. Used pizza stone on middle rack, oven pan on top, foil over every stove element, two oven thermometers as well as watching the thermometers like a hawk. Recorded temperature every 5 minutes to the nearest 5 F (I think I need a better oven though, it still fluctuates). Wrapped 4 portions of 1/4 of the weed (used an 1/8 of weed total). Took portions out at 21, 23, 25, 27 minutes exactly. Placed each in freezers immediately after taking out of oven.

    Recorded temperatures:
    t = 0, T = 240
    t = 5, T = 225 (turned up heat here)
    t = 10, T = 235
    t = 15, T = 240
    t = 20, T = 230 (turned up heat again)
    t = 25, T = 245
    t = 30, T = 250
    with regression equation of best fit being: T(t) = 0.000606667 x^4-0.0408667 x^3+0.8985 x^2-6.20619 x+239.69 (Wolfram Alpha)
    http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?...,{5,225},{10,235},{15,240},{25,245},{30,250}}
    Excluded outlier of {20,230}.
    Average value of T(t) on [0,30] = 238 F.

    3) Set up reflux apparatus... very home-made. Refluxed the Bacardi/decarbed weed mixture for 90 minutes. Filtered with coffee filter + cheese cloth and funnel. Was left with 41.28 mL of liquid/cannabinoids after reflux and filter/press. Some ethanol was lost but (especially for 90 minutes) not too much. Only lost about 31.2% of the liquid by mass (so only 41.6% of the ethanol lost, about 18.72 mL lost).

    I think this batch is a definite improvement. Will try to get tighter with the reflux apparatus. It was definitely sealed though, I heared the sound of a vacuum seal release when I took the plastic bag off the pyrex bowl. It was nice to watch the ethanol drip right back into the little Pyrex dish. I wonder how I lost some ethanol though. Anyway, hopefully this post helps someone. I included a bunch of pictures too. The two sets of four weed pictures in order of file names are the 21,23,25,27 minutes baked weeds in that order. There's also a picture of it all mixed together.
     

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  20. megamanx_90

    megamanx_90 Registered

    I also just test drank some, a 1 mL dropper full in water since it wouldn't fit in the dropper bottle lol.
     

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