The TRUTH behind drug testing

Discussion in 'Drug Testing' started by Branall1, May 7, 2006.

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  1. Branall1

    Branall1 Registered+

    Hello everyone, I am a new member, but I have some experience that I think (And hope) will clear up a lot of the misinformation (And flat out money wasting) I see on this board.

    My name is Brandon and I used to work for a medium sized drug testing firm located in North Carolina. We provided everything from record keeping, laboratory testing to legal compliance and on-site test kits.

    Here are some basic things everyone needs to know about drug testing.

    1. It is an entire industry formed on mis-information that's only exists to make money. Margins on drug tests are very high, especially when compared to other types of medical testing. This means companies like LapCorp and Quest Diagnostics earn more per drug test than any other test they perform, so they obviously aren't going to complain.

    2. Drug tests do NOT detect THC. You could drop a bud into water and stick a drug test in. It will read negative. Every time. Drug tests look for the byproduct of THC consumption in your body, not the drug itself.

    3. The detoxification industry is just as shameful and money oriented as the drug testing industry. Almost every detox product out there requires you to drink copious amounts of water prior to your test. It's the WATER, not the product that dilutes the sample and lowers the Ng/Ml (nanograms per milliliter) concetration of cannibinoids. Your system cannot "flush" all of the cannibinoids just because some product claims it can. Cannibnoids are stored in fatty cells, and I think everyone wishes they could magically "flush" fatty cells from their body

    4. Laboratory testing is actually on-site (rapid read, quick scan, dip card. Whatever you want to call it) testing in disguise. Here are the economics:

    The NIDA 5 (Cocaine, Meth, THC, Opiate, PCP) dip cards cost $1.10 wholesale (For a decent, american made card). They are much cheaper if you go with the Chinese imported version (remember, this is a money motivated industry. Most people use the cheapest they can get at the time)

    Lapcorp charges the company anywhere from $14-$39 per "Laboratory Test" plus a "collection fee" of $10-$15. That's $25 per test at the least.

    GC/MS (Gas Chromography/Mass Spectromity) testing actually costs a lot more than what they charge. GC/MS normally costs close to $100 per test. Anyone can obviously see the problem is every single test was run through GC/MS. Lapcorp would loose money. This is obviously not what happens.

    ALL lab samples are "screened". They know that 99% of all of the tests are going to come up negative, so they hit them with the same $1.10 test that an onsite kit uses. If it comes out negative, it's reported negative and never sent to GC/MS. If it's positive, it heads over to GC/MS for quantitive verification.

    All you have to do is be able to pass an at home kit and you are golden. Here is where the magic comes in. Drink WATER and take a B Vitamin. This will re-yellow your urine, which will pass visual inspection.

    These companies are all about making money (on both ends, testing and "detox") Everyone knows drug testing is Bullshit (Penn and Teller should totally hit this for an episode). The truth is it's a multi-billion dollar industry, and the industry wants to keep it that way. Lapcorp, Quest, etc make a substantial amount of their profit from drug testing. They aren't going to deliberatly damage that.

    The point of this post? Save your money. Chances are if you are looking for a job money is tight already. Add in gas prices and time wasted at interviews and driving all over town to be tested and $30 is a lot of money. Drink water, and take vitamins.

    Brandon

    PS: Hair testing is increasing in popularity, but it is still prohibitively expensive. Wholesale on a hair test is about $79 per test. Unfortunately, nothing works to fool a hair test. They can only use 1.5" (They CAN use more, but cannibinoids break down in the hair a little after 90 days, so long hair is NOT a "timeline". It's just long hair). Shaving your head also won't work, they'll just find it somewhere else (Pubic, chest, back, anywhere really) and they will also make a note that your head was recently shaved. The cannibinoids are stored WITHIN the hair folicle, so those "cleansing" shampoos are total bullshit also. Like I said, save your money,
     
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  2. Branall1

    Branall1 Registered+

    Here's another "scam" within the drug testing industry.

    When people think of "drug abusers" they normally think of the big ones. Cocaine, Meth, opiates, etc. These drugs are no longer detectable within HOURS of use by modern drug tests. This means you could be a crackhead every day of your life, abstain for a DAY, and go get tested. You will pass.

    Weed is detectable up to 45 days in heavy users (like me). This is part of the cause with the obsession with the "marijuana is bad". If we stop testing for weed, 99.999% of all drug tests would come up negative, rendering the industry useless. Companies that make millions of dollars will stop at nothing to keep that company alive, including pushing false information (Especially OLD test results. Never do you hear of recent studies showing the "terrible effects" of chronic marijuana usage.) or extrapolating ludicrous results from ludicrous tests.
     
  3. eGGNoG

    eGGNoG Registered

    sheet , i get "randomed" its not really but it is close, and if i fail i can get into a shit load of trouble, what you think i should do with drinking water.
     
  4. Branall1

    Branall1 Registered+

    Unfortunately random drug tests are hard to fool. Normally, your employer selects you for a test and you have to go immediately (The official DOT rule is "immediately before, during, or after performing the duties specified under section yadda yadda").

    My recommendation to you would be to keeop yourself hydrated anyways (it's good for you) and find a way to keep a whizinator or some other source of synthetic/clean urine avaiable. Make sure you hit the temperature right, that is one of the first things that is checked. Anything more than a few degrees higher or lower than 98 degrees and it's an instant red-flag.
     
  5. whitekat

    whitekat Registered+

    hey brandon, thanks for the info....question for you....while you were a piss cop, did you ever help a brother out, by switching or diluting the sample? just wondering, in todays paper a drug screen company has a want add out for a collector....i think i would help some brothers out if i could ....you know, stick it to the man sort of thing be cool
     
  6. IrieAllie

    IrieAllie Registered+

    Brandon,

    Thanks for the info...very informative. My husband needs to get a physical for work (just the yearly thing), at his leisure. He's not smoked in almost 6 weeks....we were going to get one of those at-home tests, but were unsure how reliable it would be. He just wants to get the physical over, so he can partake! I guess that would be the way to go, and your info was extremely helpful! Thanks again!
     
  7. DonnieDarko

    DonnieDarko Registered+

    Hi Branall1,

    Your post is both interesting and informative ... I hope you stick around because we need resident experts in this area.

    My only question: How low are the lowest limits of THC that can be detected in testing? For example, if someone smokes a small amount, like once a week, will that fall below the level of detection ???
     
  8. Branall1

    Branall1 Registered+

    I was not a collector. I was a salesman (yes, I sold my soul, but it was either that or no food on the table, and I have a kiddo to take care of). Unfortuantely, almost every place that does drug collection is monitored and controlled by the DOT. They have tons of regulations to follow (US government? Regulations? Imagine that). If someone was caught switching piss, not only would there be firing, but charges. The reason is this:

    Say you were a trucker who got pinned for a random test. You go in and get tested, and test positive. Now say your lawyer found out that a collector, may not have been your collector, but can you say reasonable doubt? A good lawyer could get every single test thrown out for as long as teh collector worked there. This is why there are stiff penalties and stiff training (brainwashing) for collectors.

    Another thing. Specimin collection is normally the starting point for people who want to become Nurse Assistants/RNs. These people generally have that school taught "drugs are bad, mmmkay" mentality. They may not like their jobs, but you can kiss any chances at a "career" goodbye if you have a tampering charge on your record.

    While I would have LOVED to help a fellow toker out, I was not in a position to have much affect. What else was hilarious is of the 50 people that worked there, EVERYONE I knew smoked. Kind of shows you the hypocracy of the whole thing.

    As for me hanging out, I have really enjoyed by brief stay here and have receveived a warm welcome from my fellow "pot heads". Thank you for your hospitality, and I plan on staying. This is a nice community you guys have going here.

    Also, just in case anyone was wondering, I am not longer in the drug testing racket. I am actually a systems engineer, which is what my true passion is. The sales thing is always safe to fall back on in the event of unemploymentness.

    Brandon
     
  9. Branall1

    Branall1 Registered+

    DonnieDarko

    Sorry, forgot to address your question. The standard "at hyome" or "on-site" in-vitro urine tests are "calibrated" (that word is used very loosely) to detect 50 nanograms per mL. What this comes out to on a per bowl/joint is HIGHLY subjective. It's much the same as "how much can I drink before being legally drunk"

    I can tell you this. I am 6'0" and 250 lbs. I keep myself well hydrated, and although I am not a tub of lard, I could stand to lose 25 lbs. I experimented on myself and stayed clean for 3 months. I then smoked a bowl of TOTAL CRAP (NC weed is TERRIBLE. Bible belt land you know) and tested myself the next morning. While it would have been an "official" negative, it was very very close to the limit. I was also able to fool it with another glass of water and a second test, but I was pushing the "too clear" limit.

    I'm a big guy, and those at home tests are actually pretty sensitive. Not that they can't be defeated, but definitely do't smoke the night before your test.

    I have a couple test kits here with me now. I might take some pictures and post a thread explaining everything, if you guys think it might help. Let me know if you think a quick illustrative post on testing procedures and what to expect would help.

    Brandon
     
  10. Bigg Cellus

    Bigg Cellus Registered+

    Brandon,
    Having a cdl and wanting to get back into trucking I am concerned about the trucking dot testing/screening. Are these tests pretty easy to pass? I would use quickfix if I was hit with a random after I passed the intro test. I just want to get a basic understanding of the drug screen/dot test that truck drivers have to take as I love to drive and I do not have any accidents on my record and will not smoke while working only when I am off duty and at home. Thanks in advance.

    Bigg:stoned:Cellus
     
  11. Branall1

    Branall1 Registered+

    Federal regulations require that at minimum 50% of all registered CDL drivers be submitted to a random 5-panel drug screen (The NIDA 5). The company I worked for ran what is known as a "consortium". Because DOT requires 50% of all drivers to be tested, it's kinda hard to hit that number if you are just an owner operator. What we did was for companies with less than 5 CDLs, we grouped them in with one of our consortiums, so random selections were pulled from the consortium as a whole (A consortium could have as many as 10,000 drivers in it) and as long as the consortium remained compliant, DOT considered the members of the consortium compliant.

    DOT also requires a pre-employment drug screen before a driver is allowed to drive for that company. There is also another weird requirement that most people don't understand. DOT also requires that a driver be subject to random selection at all times. This presents a problem, because normally random selections are done quarterly (4 times per year, not necessarily every 3 months) This means that if you were hired in march (The end of the first quarter) you not only have to take your pre-employment, but litterally a couple days later you could get hit with a random. Wasteful government over-babysitting at it's finest.

    Now, random selections are a bear. When your company receives the notice that your employee ID has been pulled for random selection, they are required to notify you as soon as possible, and to instruct you to proceed immediately to the closest DOT approved collection facility. Companies normally keep forms as a part of a truckers "road packet" and require their drivers to have a copy on them at all times they are behind the wheel. This does not give much time for hydration or any other sort of trickery.

    Once you arrive at the collection facility, your sample is collected (un-supervised, which is where a whizinator would come in handy) and sealed in a special "split-specimine" cup. DOT requires a sample to be split into two containers. In the event of a positive result, the trucker has a right to have the second sample re-tested immediately. DOT tests are still screened the "old-fashioned" way, with an on-site kit. As long as you can pass that, you should be free and clear. The sample won't even be given a second look (second looks at negative tests take time, and time=money).

    If your sample fails the preliminary, it is sent in for quantitive analysis. This is where they take a sample and run it through GC/MS to determine the actual amounts of the substances in the sample. Once it is found that a test is "positive", the results are sent to a doctor for "medical review". The doctor acts as an impartial third party to review the test results with the patient and discover, hopefully, any medical explination for the results (Example, prescription medications). One the medical review is done, it is then handed to the employer as either "confirmed negative" or "confirmed positive".

    The employer has several requirements in regards to how to handle a positive test. Immediate firing is not always an option, and the regulations require a referal to a "substance abuse" clinic. Unfortunaltey, once you are hit with a positive test, they test the hell out of you if you want to go back to work. You have to submit proof of the completion of a "DOT approved" substance abuse rehab. You are then required to be tested monthly (I can't remember, I'm pretty sure it's monthly) for the next 6 months to as long as 3 years depending on the recomendation of your therapist.

    That's pretty much drug testing for truckers in a nutshell. I am about to take a walk with my family now, it's a nice warm evening. I'll be back on later if anyone else has any questions.

    Brandon
     
  12. Bigg Cellus

    Bigg Cellus Registered+

    Brandon,
    Thanks for the info-this is what I have been wanting to know for awhile. Gives me something to think about. I hope you and the fam enjoy the walk:).

    BiggCellus
     
  13. Branall1

    Branall1 Registered+

    Two more notes. For those of you that have to resort to "clean" or "Sythetic" urine, I cannot stress enough about temperature. Termperature has to be right or it's an instant red flag. No human on earth pisses cold, it's not possible. Remember, these collections are routine. If you are cool, and your sample smells like urine, is yellow and is within 2 degrees of 98, you are golden.

    Point 2: For DOT tests, a missed test is treated the same way as a positive. Do not skip out on a required test. Also, if you do get caught with an adulterated or substituted test, DOT requires an immediate re-test (immediate being within the next day) under direct supervision. A person (of like gender) will watch you piss into a cup. I mean litterally watch. No back turned, no stall. Watched.

    Going walking now.

    B
     
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  15. eGGNoG

    eGGNoG Registered

    i dont get randomed any more from my school, its up to me when i want to take the drug test but i still need to do it once a month... any "best" options? it would be at my doctor cus i need to bring a paper or whatever saying i passed... i was thinking using someone elses piss but i dont know if i can make it eexactly 98 degrees or 2 within.. i know if oy utake vitamin B pills or one whatever, it makes your piss like colored, so if i take one of those and dillute the shit outta me, how good of a chance ill pass? if i fail im going to juvi.. i got till like this weekend to decide. if im ganna keep toking , good looks on all the info though mah dood. pZ.
     
  16. PaRanOiD81

    PaRanOiD81 Registered+

    what do you think about taking certo to try and pass the drug test?
     
  17. Branall1

    Branall1 Registered+

    Read my second post in this thread for my opinion of "detox" products.

    Generally, they are total crap and a waste of money.

    B
     
  18. DonnieDarko

    DonnieDarko Registered+

    There was a very smart guy on this board last year, IamN2Pot, who had the same opinion on detox products. He posted very clear posts on dilution and substitution. It's great to have a live expert on the board again ... but some people you won't be able to convince.

    IMO, this is the most important forum on this message board. Your help is appreciated.
     
  19. toke it up 420

    toke it up 420 Registered+

    thanks, great info



    ps shrooms arent on any drug tests(tyrptoids or somethin like that)
    piss tests that is
    even on 10 panel!
     
  20. eGGNoG

    eGGNoG Registered

    well cus they stay in your body for like a day right? why bother checking usually people arent THAT dumb.
     
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