Who likes numbers?

Discussion in 'Indoor Growing' started by davejohnwright, Jul 6, 2007.

  1. bejay

    bejay Registered+

    the 4 by 4 area would be the most efficient use of your light as there is less square feet to cover and it will have more light reflected back to the plants wich will result in better growth there is no need to figure the lumens at different distances as the 4 by 4 room will always have the most lumens than the 4 by 5 or 5 by 5 when compared at same distance from the light.
    while you may be able to get the same yield out of a larger space you are either using more plants to fill the extra space or you are using a longer veg time to fill the extra space.
    you might also consider using co2 to increase your yield and once again the lumens per sq ft become important the plants in a 4 by 4 room would be able to utilize more co2 simply because they are receiving more lumens.
  2. davejohnwright

    davejohnwright Registered+

    I am planning on adding CO2, nothing special or expensive, I'm planing on using many bucket loads of water, sugar, and yeast. I know it wont reach optimum CO2 levels with this set up, but something is better than nothing. I will do this mainly because I cannot vent outside. I will however open the door and refresh the air in the grow area a few times / day.
    • Like Like x 1
  3. oldsanclem

    oldsanclem Registered+

    That is the basic $$$$$$
    1000 grams , 1000 watts in 2 months produce 0.05 gwm:thumbsup::thumbsup::pimp:
    I have gotten 3.5 pounds of one 1000 watt MH bulb NO big deal it took 3.25 months.
    Given the right size room and strain I would bet I could get 6 pounds, but time is not on my side.
    If your doing it for fun and unlimited amount of money and time. Have fun reguardless of the cost.
    Now a fool and his/her money soon shall be departed. P.T. Barnem
  4. davejohnwright

    davejohnwright Registered+

    Quantity dosent mean much to me, Quality is key. I would only need 3.5lbs if I were planning to sell any, I'm gonna smoke it, and share with my friends.
    And my finances are far from unlimited, I live a ghetto lifestyle, just doin my best with what I can get my hands on, it works. Otherwise shit, I'd have it hooked up!

    But I have come to a decision on my grow. I will be growing monster plants! I will use my 1000w HPS w/ MH conversion bulb for veg. I plan on getting some high wattage CFL's to provide light to the lower portions of the plants. CO2 buckets (water, sugar yeast), a good fan to keep the air moving, top soil/ FFOF soil/ perlite/ a touch of vermiculite/ diatomacious earth/ a variety of guano/ And 7/8" drain rock from the landscape supply used in whatever fashion I put it together in. And let's not forget love attention, and careful research, the most important tools.
    I figure I'll wait for fall so I dont have high temperatures getting in the way, It's gonna take me a lllooonnnnggg time to veg. I want this to last me a very long time so I'm gonna train em' well! I'll probably supercrop a couple of em', LST the others to get optimum results.
    I still cant decide well enough on a strain to place an order for seeds. Maybee I'll order a few very different strains, choose the best of each for keeping, pull the rest.
    The street market in WA sucks monkey balls!!!! I crave good pot, and lots of it!!!!! Some things you just gotta do yourself, ya know. :hippy:
  5. bongerstonerd00d

    bongerstonerd00d Registered+

  6. davejohnwright

    davejohnwright Registered+

    You know I actually have both of those charts on my computer, but thaks you for reposting them, they took some searching to find the first time.

    Also I have a total of 3 friends in this state, I brought them with me when I moved, we lived together in the woods for 6 months, and for the years after that we have lived very near by each other. Normally I would agree with you on not letting friends know, but these friends are the rare type that a person can actually trust, we've been through alot, and they did'nt narc me out of rip me off on any of my other grows. So it's cool. Besides I have personally seen too it that they know their rights, and what bullshit the cops will pull to try to get a person to give up thier rights.

    I do appriciate the advice though, I've told the same thing to many others.
  7. ismokealldaylong420

    ismokealldaylong420 Registered+

    im not saying less light is any better but this articale that i just got done reading in hightimes jorge cerventas grow guide i may make a thread of this later but i dunno its called yeild of dreams it says this guy james is says hid lights couse lots of heat and with that heat come lots of problems in a growers space temps should be around 75 during day and no less than 55 during night he has came up with the following he has he says this way yields two times as much with less light he uses he uses 10 hps lamps he messed with numerous different light patterns light regimes ect ect and found that the zig-zag way is best he switches 5 of the lights on 2 hours then the other set so each set of lights are on 2 hour intervals and that way he cuts his bill down by half and this is wear it gets very interesting in order for this system to work properly you need 4 lamps his first grow yielded 9.3 pounds around 70% of his last crop as he started to get the hang of this light regime yields started to climb in a diff grow op from two ladies they do the same light regime that james does there grow was perfect till it cought a virus and they were forced to harvest 110 healthy plants two weeks early only 7 weeks into flowering when dried and cureed there yeild was 4.8 pounds givven the total amount of wattage(600 watt hps) they harvested roughly 0.7 grams to the watt for every 30 days of flowering everyone knows the bechmark is 0.5 grams per watt each 30 days it goes on to say this was a major improvement there next crop yielded 3.1 kilos of dank from 150 plants 0.7 grams for each watt for 30 days of flowering(1.4grams for actuall time flowered) however the yield was low becouse they didnt grow the clones long enough these polish dudes are currently using this light regime and getting 1.6 grams per watt for every 8 weeks of flowering if you want to get full deatails of this you should go to hightimes or get the mga
  8. oldsanclem

    oldsanclem Registered+

    That is great for a scrog system, the best I have ever seen was /is 0.6 g/w/m Getting 0.7 g/w/m is one hell of a imporovement. Scrog is the only way to go, but the damn plant count is the killer, in the U.S.A. FYI a plant can be 10 ft tall or a leaf with a root, been there done that. Once again that is extreemly good job of growing and may try it with a new system. With automation its real easy, to pull it off. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
  9. mushaboom

    mushaboom Registered+

    this may just be me, but its really hard to read without punctuation... :)
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. bmwboy713

    bmwboy713 Registered

    i think the question was what is too much light? i've used 6-1000 watt hps lamps over a 4x8 before in a SOG grow before and had really good results. No staging, just straight 12/12 18,000 lumens per square foot. But you have to remeber plants can only use as much light as they have available co2, they can only use as much co2 as they have nutrient, they can only use as much nutrient as the root have available air etc. everything needs to be in proportion, you can raise one w/o raising the rest to achieve the best results.
  11. buyahalan

    buyahalan Registered

    So can you figure what's the best setup if you used a LED's Lights setup? Lumen, Kelvin and the PAR value to get the optimum results. In Hawaii we got Night Helicopters marking homes for a Heat signature? They wake you so early? before 5am so I figured if I can get from the Med MJ program I should do all right but I forgot about theives.

    So I'm going to China to have them make me a Perfect grow Light? LED for ever
  12. GreenLeaf420

    GreenLeaf420 Banned

    In 2001 the US LAW was changed were they can not use In-fared to get a warrant.

    The Patriot Act Throws that all out the window if they want to bust that out. I do not think thee are a lot of Talbans in Hawaii
  13. Puffzter

    Puffzter Registered+

    Well light loss per range to source is not difficult to calculate.
    It goes down exponentially and that means double the range cost your lumens to decrease to a 1/4. Exactly.
    However that does not take into acount leaves that shade or other distortions and reflections etc. But from light source to top of the plants it is perfectly accurate and a basic physical fact of nature. Same thing with drag by the way ;) was a racedriver before. Double the speed = quadruple the drag.

    Interesting thread by the way man. And ye I am very much into numbers, statistics and calculations myself.


    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. frostymcfailure

    frostymcfailure Registered+

    the patriot act is a complete violation of constitutional rights. Also ensures people can not sue FDA & pharmaceutical companies in regards to certain vaccinations linking to autism.
  15. CovertCarpenter

    CovertCarpenter Registered+

    Amount of light is a big consideration...

    ...but I'd have to say that 4x4' or 4x5' could be lit by a 600w, going 1000w seems like wonderful, glorious overkill :) I assume that you're using the MH for vegging and the HPS once you flip it over to flowering... Use a rectangular reflector if you can... should light the space more evenly, though ymmv.

    And can't remember exactly where I heard it, but something like 7,000 lumens/sq.ft is good, 10,000/sq.ft. optimal, and anything over 14,000/sq.ft. theoretically 'too much', but if bmwboy713 was pushing 18,000 and making it work, well, /wow/... I hope you were wearin' sunglasses while working on that killa show, mon!
  16. hcmake

    hcmake Registered+

    I know for plant biology that the ammount of light can be too much for certain plants. Good example is Melissa officinalis. Too much light changes the color of the plant to purple :D wich is cool thought. Grows natural and green if kept behind a window but turns purple already under 21W 6500K CFL(1300 lumens/lux).(tested this myself)

    But for cannabis being grown naturally in deserts near the equador. High concentration of light would also need high concentration of other components needed for fotosynthesis?

    If i had a laboratory i would be runing tests for diffrent combinations of light+nutrients+Co2+dark time.

    Natural co2 levels are around 300 ppm ? and natural light is
    10,000–25,000 lux Full daylight (not direct sun)[2]
    32,000–130,000 lux Direct sunlight
    (copied from wikipedia)

    lets say we want to simulate best outdoor conditions inside we would need atleast
    25000-35 000 lumens per square feet of plants.
    We would need to match the nutrient usage at this intense light levels correct?
    Lets keep in mind that man made light does not match the full spectrum of light gained from the suns rays.

    So maby just maby only one type wavelenght of light could be too much if high enough concentration right ? can anyone confirm this ?
  17. TANKJR

    TANKJR Registered+

    Hi all....I'm new here but experienced grower and I have about the same size room/closet. I have a 4wx6dX8h foot closet, 400W HPS and 400W Sunlux for flowering. I have attempted to multiply the light by adding 6 large mirrors. It seems to have worked! I may/may not have 4 AK47s, (had 6, but 4 fill the closet to capacity) now in 1st week of flowering after about 90 days of veggin. They are about 4 foot in 2gal containers in MG soil. I have them staked and am trimming for a (hopeful!) mega yield (saw pics and desc from an Ed Rosenthal book) I won't be posting pics prolly, and I'm not exactly sure what defines a monster plant, but these are some thick bushy stinky babies...yes, I call a four footer a baby! They've been fed MG with every watering. Bottom line is they are very, very healthy, so get bz planting and good luck! The longer you think about it the bigger they coulda been!
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Erinbla

    Erinbla Registered


    My question is I have some 20-20-20plant food can I use it during the veg and flower?
    And how old does my plant need to be for me to start it
  19. malus69

    malus69 Registered+

    I'm very interested in this concept too and I would love some input on this matter.
    I have both those charts printed out hanging in the notes board of my grow room lol. What I would like to know though is if there is an actual mathematical formula based on wattage and lumen output of the bulb. Cause my 400W HPS aggro has an output of 58k lumens compared to the 53k this chart suggests! :thumbsup:
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2011
  20. BamaGrower

    BamaGrower Registered+

    I would go with the 4x5 and then supplement with 2 t5 8 bulb of the 2ft variety. get the bulbs that are made for the flowering stage and orient them vertically on the 2 longest sides of the garden. this will give the unlit portions of the garden a huge boost and help you to have buds that all mature at the same time. this is assuming that you dont mind coming up with the 300-400 bux for the t5's. I am running a 600hid with a dual spec bulb and a t5 2ft and the undergrowth areas are growing like crazy. there are very few spots that do not get direct light and i try to rotate the plants by hand every day or every other day about 180 degrees. as soon as i can im gonna pick up a 4ft t5. ppl tend to underestimate the power of t5 bulbs.

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