Hello,



For too many years now the ACLU has been meeting with law enforcement in private to determine medical marijuana policies. This practice is not only unethical it is against the law. This policy decision should only be made by an open rule making process that is open to everybody, and not by clandestine meetings for the special few.



The history of the ACLU meddling into medical marijuana is now well documented. In the past enforceable policies have been developed for medical marijuana patients, without their input or participation. In fact they are proving to be engaged in a pattern and practice of habitually bypassing the Open Public Meetings Act to make secret deals with law enforcement to acquire a policy that is not outlined by the governing state general law.



In fact, neither the state general law RCW 69.51A, nor the county charters authorize this group as having any statutory authority to decide such a medical marijuana policy.



It is time to reprimand the ACLU and the law enforcement agencies that have demonstrated a pattern and practice of violating the Open Public Meetings Act, and conducting back room policy meetings.



The ACLU does not speak for medical marijuana patients, nor can they legally represent medical marijuana cooperatives which are operating in violation of a state general law. The ACLU could and should be held liable for creating a Rico Act violation environment by encouraging illegal behavior to be conducted under a wink and a nod agreement with State, County, or City law enforcement.



The ACLU needs to stop this pattern and practice of creating secret medical marijuana polices and lobby for a bill or rule making process , or file an initiative to make a legal law. In fact, the ACLU should be pushing for the legislature to address the second part of SB 6032 which was to figure out a safe and legal supply, rather than hold more secret medical marijuana policy meetings.



Thank you





King County law enforcement officials meet with patients
Submitted by Ben on Fri, 10/09/2009 - 10:56pm
We received word via the Potline that the ACLU was hosting a meeting between King County law enforcement officials and representatives of various medical marijuana groups. Some confusion and concern existed about the purpose of these meetings, and two invited activists refused to attend because their lawyer wasn't allowed.

Via the intertubes we received a copy of the meeting agenda and two documents with draft guidelines for medical marijuana collectives or cooperatives. We are placing these documents online for general consumption.

Memo - 080509 Medical Marijuana Meeting - 082809.pdf
Collective Cultivation Guidelines - Lifevine - 092209.pdf
Guidelines for Washington State Medical Cannabis Cooperativ.pdf
To get the full story on this tempest, we called Alison Holcomb from the ACLU. She said that, after the Satterberg memo was issued to clarify what the King County Prosecutor would and would not prosecute, law enforcement had some questions on how to identify the groups, or collectives, or coops -- or whatever -- the memo refers to in Policy #3.

Apparently, King County law enforcement have been discussing what this means with one another. Alison is in touch with SPD Captain Mike Meehan, and was informed of these discussions, and the fact that law enforcement felt it would be worthwhile to discuss the matter with actual medical marijuana groups -- or collectives, or cooperatives, or etc.

So came this meeting between King County law enforcement officials, and Green Cross, Lifevine and Green Buddha.

But wait, there's controversy.

Medical marijuana attorney extraordinaire Douglas Hiatt was neither invited to, nor allowed to attend the meeting. Two representatives of Compassion in Action were specifically invited, but refused to go, because Douglas -- their lawyer -- was not allowed to go with them.

This is true, according to Alison Holcomb. She explained that this group of law enforcement officials specifically requested to not have Douglas present. The reasons for this, she explained, are three-fold: 1) they feel constantly attacked in meetings with Douglas, 2) they feel Douglas monopolizes time and conversation, and 3) they feel they understand Doug's position, and hearing more of it would not help the dialogue they are trying to have with this meeting.

So that's the story. The draft guideline documents are certainly interesting, so take a look, we hope you find them interesting too.


King County law enforcement officials meet with patients | Cannabis Defense Coalition
RCW 42.30.010
Legislative declaration.

The legislature finds and declares that all public commissions, boards, councils, committees, subcommittees, departments, divisions, offices, and all other public agencies of this state and subdivisions thereof exist to aid in the conduct of the people's business. It is the intent of this chapter that their actions be taken openly and that their deliberations be conducted openly.

The people of this state do not yield their sovereignty to the agencies which serve them. The people, in delegating authority, do not give their public servants the right to decide what is good for the people to know and what is not good for them to know. The people insist on remaining informed so that they may retain control over the instruments they have created.



RCW 42.30.020
Definitions.


As used in this chapter unless the context indicates otherwise:

(1) "Public agency" means:

(a) Any state board, commission, committee, department, educational institution, or other state agency which is created by or pursuant to statute, other than courts and the legislature;

(b) Any county, city, school district, special purpose district, or other municipal corporation or political subdivision of the state of Washington;

(c) Any subagency of a public agency which is created by or pursuant to statute, ordinance, or other legislative act, including but not limited to planning commissions, library or park boards, commissions, and agencies;

(d) Any policy group whose membership includes representatives of publicly owned utilities formed by or pursuant to the laws of this state when meeting together as or on behalf of participants who have contracted for the output of generating plants being planned or built by an operating agency.

(2) "Governing body" means the multimember board, commission, committee, council, or other policy or rule-making body of a public agency, or any committee thereof when the committee acts on behalf of the governing body, conducts hearings, or takes testimony or public comment.

(3) "Action" means the transaction of the official business of a public agency by a governing body including but not limited to receipt of public testimony, deliberations, discussions, considerations, reviews, evaluations, and final actions. "Final action" means a collective positive or negative decision, or an actual vote by a majority of the members of a governing body when sitting as a body or entity, upon a motion, proposal, resolution, order, or ordinance.

(4) "Meeting" means meetings at which action is taken.


[1985 c 366 § 1; 1983 c 155 § 1; 1982 1st ex.s. c 43 § 10; 1971 ex.s. c 250 § 2.]


Notes:
Severability -- Savings -- 1982 1st ex.s. c 43: See notes following RCW 43.52.374.





RCW 42.30.120
Violations — Personal liability — Penalty — Attorney fees and costs.


(1) Each member of the governing body who attends a meeting of such governing body where action is taken in violation of any provision of this chapter applicable to him, with knowledge of the fact that the meeting is in violation thereof, shall be subject to personal liability in the form of a civil penalty in the amount of one hundred dollars. The civil penalty shall be assessed by a judge of the superior court and an action to enforce this penalty may be brought by any person. A violation of this chapter does not constitute a crime and assessment of the civil penalty by a judge shall not give rise to any disability or legal disadvantage based on conviction of a criminal offense.

(2) Any person who prevails against a public agency in any action in the courts for a violation of this chapter shall be awarded all costs, including reasonable attorney fees, incurred in connection with such legal action. Pursuant to RCW 4.84.185, any public agency who prevails in any action in the courts for a violation of this chapter may be awarded reasonable expenses and attorney fees upon final judgment and written findings by the trial judge that the action was frivolous and advanced without reasonable cause.


[1985 c 69 § 1; 1973 c 66 § 3; 1971 ex.s. c 250 § 12.]

Hail !!!

You and Glen Beck!!!

__________________
When read carefully, these statements contain subtle nuances that,
if not properly accounted for, make them seem far more significant than they really are.

They need to create a legal WAC,instead of these wink and nod agreements.People don't understand that they can make these agreements all they want,but another task force from another county(TNET or West Net) can come in and arrest you.

Alison Holcomb is always willing to let lawyers and judges sort out the problem,and that is what will happen with this secret de facto policy.people will engage in growing larger plant numbers and will no doubt be arrested by a drug task force with a DEA agent assigned to it,and the lawyers and judges will be sorting it all out just like any pot criminal attorney would love for it to be.

It is a form of ambulance chasing by causing the wreck.

They need to start the WAC process,and have us all show up in the four corners of the state to start a legal open rule making process.We will all argue,spin our heads and spit pea soup,but it will be legal and somebody will have to make the tough call...like the 15 plant limit.

It was mandated by SB 6032 anyway so lets get to work

Where's your bitch Sandy??? Is it because you weren't invited??? I see nothing disagreeable about either the co-op growing guidelines or the co-op guidelines. Actually, they are nearly what I have been saying on this forum, but that isn't unusual since figuring it out is elementary. Just like they say in AA, Keep it simple.

And, I might add that I'd like to see LEO cooperate with patients who have gotten ripped off without fearing a third degree of themselves. I believe I know who burned me and could have turned over cheap rubber gloves and single edged razor blades used to steal my plants and make it look like a legal grab. They took my medical papers too that were with the nine plants. Alas, I will be left to deal with it in my own way, and it ain't worth going to jail over beating the shit out of a thief.

Damn Gypski, thats some shady shit that happened. They got all CSI to steal your plants? And you know who did it 100%?

__________________
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."

H.L. Mencken

My beef is:

That they are not co-ops they are dispensaries,and the only reason they want to be called a co-op is because they want to hide their money behind a non profit status.

They should have all been hit with a cease and desist notice ten years ago,so all the compassion and yada yada can line the Cherberg,and Obrien halls until the legislature hammers something out.(IN FACT I AM GOING TO GO DOWN TO THE CITY AND COUNTY COUNCIL AND TELL THEM THAT)

I am sick and fucking tired of the ACLU making back room deals that create more work for criminal pot attorneys.Holcomb is fraud and so is the ACLU.they can kiss my ass...so can Hempfest inc.

Thank you for your email regarding your concerns over recent meetings held by the ACLU with local law enforcement regarding the Washington State Medical Marijuana Statute. As the representative who attended the meetings on behalf of my office, the King County Prosecutor's Office, I can tell you that our meetings in no way violated the Open Public Meetings Act set out in RCW 42.30.030. Our meetings were not violative of the Open Public Meetings Act because those of us who work in government who attended the meetings did not constitute a "governing body" of a public agency as defined in RCW 42.30.010. Furthermore, the ACLU is a private organization. The Open Public Meetings Act does not apply to private entities.

Our purpose in meeting, at least from my personal perspective, was to simply discuss the silence in RCW 69.51A regarding how to produce a safe and legal supply of medical marijuana. We had discussions but reached no agreement on what "official policy" is in King County. The simple fact is that it is the police and prosecutors' job to interpret the statute and apply their own law enforcement and prosecutorial discretion as they judge fit, subject to the citizens we serve. We will continue to exercise what discretion the law gives us in this area of the law but we are never opposed to sitting down with citizens whether they be the ACLU or some other advocacy organization and discussing the issues. As public servants that is just as much our job as any other responsibility we have.
Sincerely,

Ian Goodhew
Deputy Chief of Staff
King County Prosecutor's Office

Ian,

I will be at the County Council meeting on Monday the 19th at 1:30,asking them to require the Prosecuting attorney to serve a cease and desist order on all pot clubs in King County.What you are doing is enabling a violation of the law.The county charter requires that the County council assign statutory authority to create such a guideline, if it is not a general law.County laws are subordinate to state general laws,and the state general law does not asign local control of the medical marijuana law.Absent any statutory authority, I feel that this is nothing more than a civil conspiracy to develop illegal laws,and give a false sense of security to medical marijuana patients,and delay the development of a legal WAC or RCW.



I will be attempting to force this issue into a legal rule making process and prevent anymore back room deals in the ACLU.The purpose of the meeting was to serve Holcomb's interest in having judges and lawyers sort this secret illegal policy out and avoid clear bright lines for enforcement with legal posted RCW's and WAC's..



The time of creating work for criminal pot attorneys is over,and it is tiime to deal with this issue in Olympia,not in Seattle.

Thank you

I'm beginning to really wonder whose side you are really on? It doesn't matter who attends the meetings, its the end result. Legal and safe access to medical marijuana through legal non-profit co-ops. Give it a rest Sandy and grind your ax on something else like the legislators who aren't doing anything to address the issue.

Hello Councilmember’s,



Below is an email exchange regarding an attempt by the King County Prosecutor and members of area law enforcement to create a medical marijuana policy in King County. This group is not acting on a council resolution to create this policy and is absent any such authority to legally create official policy under the King County charter.



To further complicate things the County does not have local control over this state general law, so any policy that is created will be in violation of a state general law.



The County Council needs to step in and address this problem now that these illegal policies are either in some cases in effect or in the process of being created. The Council should vote to order all medical marijuana pot clubs operating in King County to cease and desist, and initiate the urgency for Olympia to commence a rule making so there can be a legal remedy put into the state general law.



SB 6032 has a section written into it that is supposed to address this very problem, so creating secret illegal policies just puts off the real fix to this problem.



I am aware of the potential budget savings that creating laws at the ACLU would provide, however I would prefer to conduct the people’s business in the Council’s chambers.

Thank you

Gypski,
Show up at 1:30PM on Monday and plead your case...Out in the fucking open where it belongs.

Co-ops don't sell pot to 1,000's of people dispensaries do.I am not interested in hiding the pot clubs money behind a non profit,perhaps that is the way you want it.Either way the policy decision belongs out in the open not at the ACLU.I want dispensaries to pay taxes and comepete just like any other free market situation,you want a non profit cartel to provide the service.Fine maybe you can convince Olympia the value of your approach...out in the fucking open where all the other laws get formed.

I, along with many would prefer that mmj remain tax free just as any other medication is tax free except for the state sales tax. That would require guidelines for record keeping on the amount of medication dispensed, not how much any patient obtained along with the other normal record keeping. That is basically private information unless they get caught redistributing it. And that would be their responsibility to defend, not the co-op that thought they were using their medicine correctly under the law. Not too hard to add a rule for that. Just pencil it in. King County needs revenue and as good citizen's paying a nominal tax is our civic duty in a sense.

Remember medical marijuana patients can't claim it under insurance and are at a disadvantage right from the start. Being a medical patient yourself Sandy, you should understand that.

Like I said there may be value in the co-op approach,who knows we might end up with both.I prefer it be run as a regular business with insurance for bad products,which is why I won't go to any of these clubs out there now.I have been told too many times that they can not guarentee the quality of their products.Can you imagine going to Dick's and getting sick all the time and having them tell you they can't guarantee the quality of their product.It is unacceptable.

As far as not being alowed in the meeting because I am not a co-op,that is horsehockey.Perhaps I want to use them at some point but I won't until they are responsible for the products they sell,or have some sort of regulatory system in place.I simply don't trust the clubs that are out there now to develop a safety standard.These people in my opinion are just trying to sell as much pot as they can and could give a rip if they sell tainted or moldy pot.

However selling to thouands of patients that do not do anything but show up and buy pot is a dispensary.Green cross is a dispensary..most of them are like that very few are actiually co-ops.

I have been told it would be best to wait until after the budget hearing process is over to go down to the county council to gripe about this so I can get my full two minutes.

The King County Prosecutor is a separately elected countywide official elected by the people of King County to enforce the state laws and county ordinances of King County. We have discretion to set policy including filing standards and other prosecutorial policies separate and apart from the county council or any other legislative body. We are the Executive Branch of county government and have authority under RCW 9.94A., specifically RCW 9.94A.411. We do not submit our filing standards to the County Council for approval.

Ian Goodhew
King County Prosecutor's Office

sandy why don't you focus your energies at the real issue, legalizing coops and dispensaries?

I am suing them for this practice in the past,I need to know what their defense is going to be.He has provided me with the specific RCW with which they can supposedly do this legally.We will see about that in due time.
Now I can forecast potential arguments and start to formulate specific questions for defendant's when they take the witness stand.

I see glaring problems already and I can't wait for the moment they make this argument in court.

This whole thing is about creating work for lawyers,and the expert witness Martin Martinez.They push some totally illegal guideline that will get people to grow larger amounts without the specific protection of the state general law.Law enforcement will find them and sort this all out with lawyers and Judges just like those sneaky fucking bastards Martinez, Holcomb,Steinborn,and Hiatt want.

sandybarr, your on point there with what your trying to achieve, go get them man !!! I totally agree with you, people whom haven't delt with the people your talking about are extremely clueless.... I have delt with almost all of them and what a bunch of thieves....

Thank you James SR.
Perhaps we will cross paths in Olympia this next session.I urge you to recruit people to show up down there to be seen and heard.They keep wanting to hand pick people out of our community to make agreements with and run to the people and say here we have come to a concensus..Then they all gather behind the Governor and get their pen after she signs the Bill, as a momento.

Not any more.

sandybarr, can you e-mail me please at je.b.424@hotmail.com, I need some info from you and to give you info. outside the forums, I am in clark co., far from your location. thank you

James SR. I know that you are part of the cannacare forum so I have to maintain distance from you.I do not do this for any other reason than to maintain seperation from an organization that apparently according to the two task forces is still under investigation for Rico Act violations.
I was denied public records for that very reason.So I must keep a distance from Cannacare people until things blow over.people still believe and that is ok with me.I have said my piece and I will let it be.As I have stated before I would love to be wrong about the movement leader,but for now they would love to tie me to him to get a crack at me.I am the one they were after the first time,and I bet I am still the one they are after.

sandybarr, I also am a THCF patient since 1999 and was a volunteer there, and am in a war with thcf, you are a THCF patient associated with a fraudster than I guess since they are after me also we shouldn't be mmj patients... Please put your issues aside with steve or what ever your rico issues are, just you going on this site is a rico issue, just you being a mmj patient is a rico issue, you say that steve didn't have a license when you had your run in, not my issue bro... THE WA. STATE located U.S. attorney's office got on your ass for filing your inquires into WESTNET you sillyman,FEDERAL MONEY GRANT inquires, they are on my ass for doing the same thing you did, just on the different level for filing citizen criminal complaints against state, county & city LEO',not to mention a $20 mil tort claim, bar complaints against steinborn, hiatt, private lawyers hired by risk management I.E. STU ESTES of keating, bucklin & McCormick and Todd Rueter of K/L Gates the largest government(LEO) lawyer agency in the world. SO BIG DEAL, BUCK UP AND BE A MAN, just because of your issues in your mind with steve don't legally transfer to me, just like mine with PAUL STANFORD don't transfer to you... we PATIENTS all need to stick together in the mmj fabric, or go hide under a rock, and don't come out, and definitely don't go to any public meeting on mmj, as in oly you mentioned meeting me at here on the forum... come on your a very smart dude and should know better than to act like this toward other mmj patients.. we can put these fools to bed if we SMART people actually work together to the common good, you got some info. I need to continue my work for the common good of us mmj patients, thats what I need from you PERIOD !!! ain't interested in anything else, I have read your work on-line and it gave me wood, deny me stable wood ?(were is the viagra in that? SHIT), I can't believe anyone doing that in your position, cruel and unusual punishment bro... I am a solider in the fight, not one to hide in any closet EVER,EVER,EVER !!!!!! Don't want to fight a fellow mmj patient, just all those against us... play ball sandy...

So whats the big deal with thcf? They're just doctors authorizing MMJ to patients. They don't have a dispensary that I know of so they're not vilating any laws.

James Sr.

Sounds like interesting stuff going on with the old guard ,white night,Hempfest inc crowd.I have until January to sterilize and Homogenize a legal argument capable of withstanding an immunity defense and summary judgement.Then I have to come up with 1400 bucks to file and serve the summons and complaint.There is a lot on my plate right now,while I wait for an division II appeals court decision I may have to appeal. I have been going at it alone for years now and I seem to be getting better and better at it.

What is it you want from me..Is it information..there is enough stuff posted here that you or anyone else can use in your battles.Funny you should mention cruel and unusual punishment it is now part of my legal argument.

This outta be specific enough to survive immunity and summary judgment

a. Even if State, County, and City Defendants had colorable authority to enforce federal marijuana laws over state medical marijuana laws, and ultra vires medical marijuana plant limits, for medical practice standards to be used under programs operated by State, County and City Defendants’ Departments, such authority does not permit Defendants to establish standards that are contrary to existing Specific lawful standards of medical practice developed by MQAC
The medical marijuana plant limits and de facto 60 day supply creations specifically conflict with the Washington State medical marijuana initiative, approved by the Washington state voters. As such, the ultra vires within the meaning of the law of the State of Washington, and will of the people violates the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution and should be enjoined in toto by this Court and declared invalid for any lawful purpose.
80. ___________ was seeking treatment for his pain, and was striped of the statutory rights under state law to seek the necessary medical care that would allow him to avoid intolerable pain and suffering, including choosing medical marijuana when no effective alternatives are available.
a. The right to make this choice is a fundamental right under the due
process clause, and is entitled to the strongest degree of constitutional protection.
81. Undermining the state medical marijuana law unduly burdens a
mentally competent adult’s fundamental liberty interest in avoiding
intolerable pain and suffering by seeking a physician-patient
relationship wherein a physician is allowed to exercise his best
professional and scientific judgment, even when such judgment is that
pain treatment with medical marijuana when it is medically necessary and no adequate alternative exists.
a. When the state exercises sufficient “control and dominion” over
the life circumstances of an individual so that it becomes
impossible for the individual to obtain necessary support , such as
medical care, then by virtue of state “control and dominion” over
those life circumstances, the state undertakes the obligation to
make that support available to the extent that absence of such
support would result in “torture or a lingering death.”
b. The State’s overall and unduly restrictive regulatory impairment of
the only legal state mechanisms whereby individuals could obtain
necessary medical care with voter-approved medical marijuana, lawful treatment of severe chronic pain with medical marijuana as restricted through the civil conspiracy to undermine the Washington State medical marijuana Act described above -- results in “control and dominion” over the medical circumstances of persons who, without such treatment, would have to live in intolerable
conditions. When a State, such as here, chooses to exercise
complete “control and dominion,” then by virtue of the state
regulatory environment impairing the availability of necessary medical care, citizens on the street have less “freedom” to obtain
that care than incarcerated prisoners who have a legal entitlement
thereto under the Eighth Amendment.
c. When the State chooses to exercise such complete “control and
dominion” that it effectively proscribes or stigmatizes all
reasonable lawful avenues for receiving necessary medical care,
then the State has a concomitant obligation to ensure that adequate
resources are available for treatment of those medically necessary
needs which, absent interference by the state, would not otherwise
produce physical “torture or a lingering death.” By virtue of state
“control and dominion” it is the state impairment that is
responsible for the physical “torture or a lingering death.”


GOD I CANT WAIT.

Well sandybarr, look at this. If the 15 plant limit is a real issue then lets find out why? So when you look at the city of aberdeens dtf website, they claim each plant is worth $4,800, so 15x $4,800= $72,000, the courts just changed the superior court jurisdiction upto $75,000 from $50,000, that means one can't bring forth a civil claim in the proper jurisdiction to make a claim, CORRECT? (risk management !!)

Now look at the Grays Harbor Superior court case my son & I have in that county(Mr. Hardgroves jurisdiction) 61 plants x $4,800 x 3=$878,400, just in CROPS( under the timber statutes, it's treble damages automatically) not to mention the amount of equipment they destroyed worth over $30,000.

My son set down in Whitman county(I suggest you get copies of the documents he filed, under James E.Barber jr. aka Barber Bishop) that mmj is NOT CONTRABAND for any mmj patient, meaning NOT A CRIMINAL OFFENSE under RCW 69.50 AND THE STATE IS WITHOUT JURISDICTION TO SEIZE LAWFUL PROPERTY OR FILE CRIMINAL CHARGES UNDER 69.50, unfortunately he is in prison in alaska for trumped up cs charges & he is looking at 5-10 years, so he can't continue the fight here, as he now has others..

You forgot to follow the contracts of the dtf, THE MONEY TRAIN BRO,(copies of the cash warrants under CTED, they are ONLY allowed to investigate DRUG TRAFFICKING, not medical treatment for the "use" of the substance of mj, which is not to be IMPAIRED...

Your 14th amend argument will fail, without the state first acknowledging your statutory rights under RCW 69.51A et. seq., this means they must give you back medicine without filing any motions for it to get it back...

Your 8th amendment will also fail, because you don't have the 3rd prong established yet under that amendment.. see the case in the state of california, city of L.A. homeless people case... What you have is a summary judgment on what you have before the court, AS IT IS RIGHT NOW,YOU MISSED VERY IMPORTANT FACTS AND CASELAW.......

This is the reason I asked you to send me EVERYTHING you have, not to tell me read what you put on-line, because you didn't put it all on-line, and rather than airing it out here or on other sites, I just want it all to read for myself( for your benefit), we have been at this since before the law came out, and changed much policy without issues.. so buck up bro..